Originally Posted By: Orac


Freedom of choice is one of those tricky things there is no shades of gray possible .. if we remove the idea of illusion or deception of freedom of choice and talk about strict real freedom of choice.

You're basing this idea on what?
Originally Posted By: Orac

The clinging to illusions we create, even despite demonstrable evidence to the contrary dominates most of our views on things the need and want to create a solid world is just another aspect of that.

How would you separate illusion from reality in order to present freedom of choice as a constant.
Originally Posted By: Orac

If there is no freedom of choice then you have a predestined fate and you are nothing more than an animal in a zoo, a plaything for a god or some other controlling logic. Life is pretty meaningless if that is the case and why even bother thinking about it just do whatever you feel like because there are no consequences as it is all planned and you will do what was intended for you to do. From a religious point of view that seems a bit strange you are evil because god wants you to be so Hitler and all the mass murders etc are gods fault?
So back to my question.

Are you saying we have a freedom of choice in how humanity and the Universe will evolve, or just how we will choose to see how the Universe and all that is in it,is?



Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle

What I suggest doesn't take anything away from freedom of choice, but it will place certain qualities of choice within the structure and limitations of Ego (relative boundaries), and that of something greater than the individual ego as a moderator between what one sees as a beginning and an ending. Perceptions of reality in that something begins from one point in time, rather than in all points in time will affect the way one looks at evolution, and even choice.

Originally Posted By: Orac

That is just shuffling the chairs around on the discussion.

No, it's more like altering viewpoints, rather than rearranging the room and while stagnating within one idea as the only reality.
Originally Posted By: Orac


The key point of freedom of choice is defiance especially in a religious sense .. can you defy GOD ... that defines freedom of choice in this matter.

No that only presupposes some kind of authority outside of any choice, rather than defining what is Freedom or choice. Why are you using this religious slant as a starting point to define choice, where it comes from, and what it can affect?
What is God, and what does God have to do with anything?

I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!