Originally Posted By: Turner
Ellis, Thanks! I find your comments very helpful. They are quite thought provoking.
Quote:
So do you not believe in The Plan and The Designer...


Ellis, read my lips. Keep in mind: When I write, G?D, I write it to refer to everything--and I mean everything, physical, mental and spiritual.

As I understand most theologies, G?D cannot be GOD and, at any time, be less than everything. And everything includes chaos. G?D, also, includes what we think of as evil--that is, pain, suffering and death.

Does this surprise you?

TRADITIONAL THEISM AND THE DEVIL
Traditional theism solved the problem of evil by "inventing" the Devil, who traditional theists speak of as an agent of God. Read the book of Job. In Job, God allows the Devil, as his agent, to do his worst, with certain limits.

BTW, check out Job 32: THE SPEECHES OF ELIHU (MEANING GOD IS GOD)
IMHO, Elihu, the youth, is the central character of the "movie" of Job--a fact overlooked by most bible commentators.

PROTHEISM BELIEVES
However, as a protheist, as long as I am free to choose, I choose to have faith, hope and Love--notice that I capitalize it--to experience G?D as operating within, not exterior to, the plan and the design of everything.

As a protheist, I think of G?D not as the planner and designer, out there, but as part of the total process--the planner and designer from within, including you and me. G?D helps us bring order out of evil and the chaos, as we use the gifts of Faith, Hope and Love--the highest good. In the light of this, what does atheism have to offer.

I repeat: WHAT DOES ATHEISM HAVE TO OFFER?
BTW, are there any who are willing to answer this question?
I hear most atheists say: In the long run faith, hope and love are tools used by those who wish to delude themselves.

IMHO, ATHEISM SHOULD ACTUALLY BE CALLED CONTHEISM.

When you write [quote]I can never understand why people who believe in their god have to bring the issue of its divinity down to mundane terms which we can all understand.

Enjoy the mystery, puff the scented smoke, that's part of it. Really chaos provides all the explanation we need however.
may I call you a contheist?

CONTHEISM, A DEFINITION
Since I just coined the term, I define it as follows: A 'contheist' is one who believes that chaos, ending in nothingness, is the only reality.

WHAT CONTHEISM ACCOMPLISHES
Contheists believe that by the power of reason, science and a lot hard work, it is possible for human beings to create a kind of temporary form of order and design out of the chaos, for a certain select few at the top. This is called history.smile

AND THE ULTIMATE END?
However, at the end of all our conscious striving, there is nothing but oblivion--all that is, no matter how beautiful, wonderful good and true, will be entirely forgotten by any who survive, if any do.

No wonder, one of the characters in a Hemminway novel calls life: "A dirty trick".

Is this what contheists actually believe; that conscious life is nothing more than a "dirty trick"?

No wonder that Hemmingway killed himself!

I await your response.




Edited by Revlgking (02/13/07 01:26 AM)
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G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org