Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle

Are you saying we have a freedom of choice in how humanity and the Universe will evolve, or just how we will choose to see how the Universe and all that is in it,is?


Freedom of choice is one of those tricky things there is no shades of gray possible .. if we remove the idea of illusion or deception of freedom of choice and talk about strict real freedom of choice.

If there is no freedom of choice then you have a predestined fate and you are nothing more than an animal in a zoo, a plaything for a god or some other controlling logic. Life is pretty meaningless if that is the case and why even bother thinking about it just do whatever you feel like because there are no consequences as it is all planned and you will do what was intended for you to do. From a religious point of view that seems a bit strange you are evil because god wants you to be so Hitler and all the mass murders etc are gods fault?

Even for religion I think you have to free up real freedom of choice somehow or else who gives a dam about anything why even bother having commandments, rules and worshipping etc.


Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle

What I suggest doesn't take anything away from freedom of choice, but it will place certain qualities of choice within the structure and limitations of Ego (relative boundaries), and that of something greater than the individual ego as a moderator between what one sees as a beginning and an ending. Perceptions of reality in that something begins from one point in time, rather than in all points in time will affect the way one looks at evolution, and even choice.


That is just shuffling the chairs around on the discussion.

The key point of freedom of choice is defiance especially in a religious sense .. can you defy GOD ... that defines freedom of choice in this matter. Now GOD can decide to punish you or even remove you from the face of the planet but in someway an omnipotent GOD has to deliberately stop his all knowing to allow you freedom of choice.

That is what is tricky about freedom of choice for an omnipotent god ... either god can't be omnipotent just very potent or GOD deliberately exempts humans from his omnipotence.

You can't talk around that problem it's not a understanding issue it's a black and white problem.

I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.