Originally Posted By: Ellis
Rev: Having no belief in the divine or the supernatural does not equate to having no belief in anything.
Good point, Ellis. Now tell us some of the other GOD-like smile ideas and actions which you do believe in, and act on. And I am all in favour of GOD-like ideas and actions. In matters faith and belief I am totally non-sectarian--deedalism not creedalism is what matters.

You say, "Atheism is a lack of belief in the supernatural."

This, and other interesting comments you make, poses all kinds of question, agreed?

For example:
1. What do we mean by "natural"? Richard Dawkins calls himself a "monist". He sees the universe as one substance, or principle. On Page 80 of The God Illusion he speaks of himself as "a human animal"--therefore, on this instinctive (unlearned, unreasoned) animal-like level he says he has evolved as an "instinctive dualist". However, on the level of intellect and understanding, he says that he has "learned to be an intellectual monist." I suspect that he is a physical--that is, somatic--monist. For Dawkins, I assume that mind and spirit are soma-based factors which are soma-dependent. Anyone disagree with my opinion?

Who among us takes this position? I do. I am a monist; but I begin with spirit (pneuma)--what I call the pneuma factor. In my opinion--no dogma intended--what we become mentally (psychologically) and physically (somatologically) is the end result of who we ARE, spiritually. IMO, we are pneuma-psychosomatic beings.

2. Ellis, you say that a newly-born child is without any kind of belief.

a) Is this a fact for which there is evidence?
b) Or is it an opinion? As always, I respect all sincerely held opinions and beliefs and expect the same from others.

BTW, I agree with Dawkins: God IS A MENTAL ILLUSION
Like you, I do not believe in a separate idol-like being called God (or gods)--especially the one, or more, we create with our imaginations.

Is there anyone in this forum who actually believes that there really is a god (God) who goes around doing miracles for those who fear, please, worship and plead with "Him" to intervene?

But I do believe that, in many ways, a lot of what is going on in what we call nature, and is being explored by science, is quite super. --in many ways it is really magic-like. For me, it is a GOD-idea, one worth exploring. Without being doctrinaire about all this, if there is no god behind what is, there is nothing to lose and lot to gain by taking a look at what is going on in nature and the role it plays in making us who we are.


Recently, being very interested in what makes us who we are I've done some reading on what happens to children born with physical handicaps, especially those born without the ability to see and hear. Not far from where I served as a minister--1966-1994--there is a special home--which the Family Life Foundation of our church helped get started in the 1970's. I met with some of the children and their mediators. Very interesting.

First, take a look at

About the religion of Helen Keller and how it shaped the kind of controversial person she became.

Her religion--one she personally chose--motivated her to get involved in political and social activism--"...too intelligent and independent to remain merely a cherished figurehead, Helen soon began branching out, speaking out not only for the rights of the handicapped, but for others that she saw as oppressed. She became radically left wing ..."--Like Martin Luther King long after her, she even came under the scrutiny of the FBI.

She was fortunate to have as a friend and defender, Mark Twain:..."accusations of plagiarism were not entirely new to Helen. A story that she wrote as an eleven year old, "The Frost King", later turned out to be a retelling of a story by Margaret Canby..."

Mark Twain's defense of her and her ability to tune into the thoughts of others--he admitted to doing the same himself--is very interesting. Many people have this gift. I have done it more than once. IMO, it is not a God-given gift to people "He" favours; it is our ability to tap into, to tune into the G0D-within-all-of us gift. It is a matter of will and choice.

And this is interesting:
BTW, Helen Keller believed in the ideas of Emanuel Swedenborg:
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxEDITING GOING ON xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


METATATION--a new word on which to meditate on
Meditation simply means to think, or to reflect about the important issues of life--not a bad idea for anyone to do. Metatation--check out the full meaning of the prefix,'meta'--is a new word which I concocted about a month ago. I use it to mean thinking and reflecting outside the cultural and religious boxes, often constructed and imposed on us by others, or which we tend to construct and impose on ourselves.

Rene Descartes said: "I think, therefore, I am." When I first awake--no matter what my mood (not always the best: Instead of saying, GOOD MORNING, GOD! smile I will say: GOOD GOD, IT'S MORNING! tired )

Then I start metatating by saying to myself: I AM, THEREFORE I THINK. At the same time I look at a large card I have with all the seven basic colours of the rainbow. Then I will also take a look at what is going on in the sky--rain or shine.

This is followed by taking a few simple yoga-like breaths and moves I also focus on the primary rainbow-like colours. To myself, I say: I something like this GOD, therefore, I think and learn.

The more I think of G0D as being within me and I visualize what is needed for me and others to do and to have, the more I learn and know the good. The more I know about this GOD-like good, the more I am motivated, encouraged and energized to act on doing the good. Of course I owe a lot to others--even atheist and agnostics who have inspired me to think. I am especially inspired by the good lives of others, past and present.
It works for me.


An abused child, one raised without the empathy of close family:

Child raise on his own, in the wild:
A child born without any physical senses, what then?
Scott has even visited Australia:
BTW, my wife taught special education.

Edited by Revlgking (11/03/10 07:23 PM)
Edit Reason: Always a good idea!
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org