Originally Posted By: Bill S.
As David Bohm explains at considerable length, all thought is subjectively linked to personal memories, which must be where its provenance lies. This necessarily raises a serious question as to an individual’s ability to step outside “the subjective box”. How would you know if/when you were outside the box? Indeed, if you were really outside the box, would you be the one doing the thinking?

If we use cellular memory and cellular communication as a simple example, we could accept that all cells within the human body share memory, and even tho they are aware of themselves are also aware of the group and a larger consciousness within the grouping of cells that make up the body.
If an individual is aware of the larger body, and while aware of ones self within the dynamics of a collective awareness of reality, it can be surmised that one is capable of stepping into another's shoes (so to speak) when viewing an experience, and relating to alternate ideas.
The practicality of reasoning must allow that all relative experiences are within some kind of box. Even the subjective in the box, out of the box idea is relative to boundaries if any identification with what is accepted as real is understood.
If one can make an assumption that there are many ways to experience something, then one begins to accept the idea that nothing is confined to one particular box but that there are a multitude of boxes. All created by the multitude of individual realities and personal foundations of belief, in association to individual memory, and personal attraction to reference points within the individual memory.
I think there has been some speculation regarding multiple universes and alternate realities within the existence of time space, and that time although experienced as linear is more than likely a point in reference where awareness finds itself making reference to past present and future for the sake of convenience to the ego as it identifies itself, with itself (within the confines of the box).


Originally Posted By: Bill S.

What do you mean when you talk of objectivity? If our thoughts are subjective, then what we perceive, with those subjective animadversions, as objectivity must be no more than a subjective interpretation.
When it comes to states of consciousness, and beliefs within what we accept as states of consciousness we can accept that the subjective and objective awareness in the experience of reality is changing within us all of the time. Of the known states of consciousness which are waking, sleeping and dreaming, we know our subjective and objective experiences are different. In sleep the mind and body are not very active. In dreaming the body is less active than when it is awake and the mind is also less active than it is when awake tho more so in deep sleep. In waking the mind and body are both active, more so than in sleeping and dreaming and that sets the stage for a different experience. In higher states of consciousness or even in the known states the mind is alternately engaging different parts of the brain for different functions, and in some instances is engaging more of the brain where intuitive and cognitive functions are more enhanced.

Bohm insisted that if he could not experience what he was talking about, that it strained his sensibility in the acceptance of theory as fact. He was driven by his need to find a connection to physics within the senses and their abilities to comprehend and experience reality.
This is what studies in consciousness have focused on since before the writings of Vedic sciences and their testimony to consciousness and awareness.

Objectivity necessarily includes expansion of conscious awareness. One cannot remain isolated in individual belief and be objective. One cannot remain within any identity of isolation within a collective body of humanity and not experience expanding consciousness.

This is not to say an individual cannot choose to be stupid or ignorant of reality, but evolution as it is accepted is an energetic that tears at the awareness of isolation and stagnation of beliefs, and it kills all of those that will not progress.

Objectivity is not such a far fetched reality and it does not limit awareness. Instead it is our beliefs in reality and ourselves that limits objectivity and reality.
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I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!