See you are turning it into a word game the same as Bill S and that is not we as scientists say.

I can prove to you the universe is finite in your context of "real situations with absolute knows" IE your word game.

See the universe is expanding it has to expand into something that is a physical law in your "reality" so there is either a multiverse or something bigger than the universe.

So we have universe => universe + something

So the universe can not be infinite because there is something that must be bigger.

At science which is about observation its an absurd claim because we will can not do observation beyond our universe so the point is mute and we say our universe in infinite becaue we could never see the thing in entirity or travel around every point in it because it is expanding close to the speed of light.

It really is the simple.

From a religious or philosophical or do external calculations the universe is most certinly finite but from a travel movement observation point it is most certainly infinite.

Its is simply a science context paradox.

We have a similar problem in Quantum Mechanics because remember we have stuff outside your phsical universe so to us your physical universe is very finite but obviously we get a new boundary where does Quantum Information start and stop.

Here is a QM version of the same thing with the multiverse in play
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_suicide_and_immortality) and the example of it at play (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unexpected_hanging_paradox)

EDIT: Oh wow these have an english name just saw that "epistemic paradox" because it turns on our concept of knowledge.

The paradox is born from incomplete coverage of understanding and if you look at historic content of the flat world they had equally the same paradox. Was the earth infinite or finite they couldn't tell and this same arguement raged go look at the works of Galileo who was imprisoned for his views.

You can argue it all day it's a word play based around lack of complete understanding or as finiter would say "you are squeezing through the cracks".

Scientists accept the universe is both finite and infinite depending on context and yes its a paradox but that paradox is born of ignorance.

Last edited by Orac; 10/28/11 06:02 AM.
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.