Originally Posted By: paul

I would define a living elephant of my choice as being a yellow elephant.

then I would later define that all living yellow elephant's are dead.

by definition I would have killed a yellow elephant.

however , in reality I would have killed nothing.

See typical adult answer full of stupid logic you try to solve the problem by defining things. In the same way you try to make god exist or not exist by defining infinity.

Ask any child the answer is there is no such thing as a yellow elephant have you ever seen one?

Originally Posted By: Paul

so your proof would be trivial if you had any.

Only trivial to you Paul because it's subjective in the same way a child views you answer on the yellow elephant as trivial.

Originally Posted By: Paul

math cannot equally divide 1 by 3.

it would end up with a number like .333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333

and would never equal 1 again by multiplying by 3

no matter how far out you carry the number , it could become as long as the universe is wide and still will never equal 1 again.

And now you have got to the crux of the 0.99999... problem.

You need subjectivity to make mathematics work.

Originally Posted By: Paul

in fact that number could be infinite.
but its just a number.


Originally Posted By: Paul

sorry , I'm not wrong.

mass can never be finite.

because it also has energy.

and the degree of energy that mass contains changes.

therefore if mass can never be finite then our universe can never be finite.

You clearly failed science at school Paul I am sure they would have told you that energy can not be created or nor destroyed only converted to and from different forms they would have called it conservation of energy.

Einstein later went on to show the equivalence of energy (E=MC2) so no Paul changing matter to energy doesn't change the mass of the universe.

Infact if you converted the entire universe to energy you would get a hell of a lot of energy but it would still have the exact same mass ready here is the calculation

One approximation of the mass of the observable universe is 3E52 so if it was vapourised the total energy of the universe would be around 4E69 joules

But guess what 4E69 joules has 3E52kg of mass.

Science would tell you the observable universe has a mass or 3E52 Kg or that the observable universe contains 4E69 joules of energy and guess what those two things are exactly the same thing.

So if we invoke god from a science point of view your god Paul created the universe from 4E69 joules of energy. Why that number and that size I will leave for you to explain because I am not on speaking terms with god.

As I said MASS is defined as finite it can not be anything but finite.

Socratus linked it before but incase you missed it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity) read the section on physics.

The first sentence says it all

=> The practice of refusing infinite values for measurable quantities does not come from a priori or ideological motivations, but rather from more methodological and pragmatic motivations.

Now you can call the universe infinite and try and talk your way around it but physics by definition forces all measurable quantities to be finite or it is not physics.

So your infinite mass and infinite space IS WRONG AT PHYSICS and no argument can change that and you could never prove it to me.

See scientist have human subjectivity as well only we acknowledge ours.

Last edited by Orac; 08/18/12 01:30 AM.

I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.