but you don't need a force to create energy.
Give me an example of creating energy without a force?
BTW, evolution solved the chicken and egg problem: the chicken evolved from something else that was already laying eggs.
And energy evolves from something that is a precursor to a force :-)
I am not doing a socrates here it is the way you can't have energy without containment else it explodes or implodes in a flash and ceases to be energy.
Containment requires forces which is my basic problem with Bill's conjecture that at the start of the universe we just had a bundle of energy ... you could not have that energy as a bundle without the containment forces in place else it would have exploded or imploded.
Anyone show me raw energy without a containment force anyhwere in the universe?
I should say even under string theory your strings have to be vibrating in one of the modes to be energy and as such have to be exerting a force just perhaps not in this physical world.
Edit: And a final thought for you the absolute classic high school physics problem to explain. I have two permanent magnets and I bring them in to a distance and release them. Where does the energy to drag them together arise and I can seperate them and do it over and over again how is this possible? BTW I am not proposing energy for nothing here just showing you a little problem with defining energy :-)
