Originally Posted By: paul

I did include the calculations to determine the amount of force required to just lift the HHO up the 144 ft distance.

but I noted that this was if you needed to use it to determine
the amounts of force
to do so , not that it should be done.

OK. So we've established that pushing it up is not an option. That's progress, we've closed off one dead-end avenue.


since the HHO would simply float up the 144 ft distance
and you have agreed that the water falling would supply the energy that would be used up if it were lifted up 144 ft , the only cost in HHO production would be the cost at (A1).

You calculated the force per square inch required to hold up a 144ft column of HHO. This is the pressure that the HHO generator needs to work at. If we replace some or all of the HHO with air, its weight is greater, so the HHO generator has to work at a greater pressure. That's even worse. It doesn't matter that the HHO is floating up, we still have to push it into the pipe against the back-pressure of that column of air, which takes the same power as lifting the column of air itself, and in fact is what we are doing.

Don't believe me? Try floating helium into an inflated car tyre. Without a high pressure pump (using energy) it doesn't go in at all, despite being bouyant.


I think an HHO generator would have maximum efficiency operating in a vacuum. You suggested something close to this yourself.

That means any pressure higher than absolute zero requires additional electrical power input. This column of air/HHO must necessarily have a pressure at the bottom of it which increases in proportion to the column's height. Every extra foot of height you give it increases the power consumption of the HHO generator (ignoring the atmosphere, which can be sealed out of the system anyway).

You could achieve equal or better efficiency by placing the HHO generator at the top of the tower. You would then have to remove the water wheel. But that destroys the whole idea.

That argument isn't convincing unless I show that the extra power consumed by the HHO generator is >= the power required to lift an extra column of gas at the same rate it's being generated.

I can't show that because I don't know the relationship between electric input power and pressure in an HHO generator. And you can't deny it because you don't know either. However by assuming conservation of energy we can conclude that the requirement in my previous paragraph holds.


why would I go to all the trouble to just have a incompetent engineer work all the efficientcies out of the system , no I wouldnt hire any engineers.

sorry !

Then what? Go to the grave taking the greatest discovery in human history? Something I noticed about perpetual motion is that nearly every proponent of it creates his own idea. I've never seen somebody take another person's concept and promote it, try to prove it or build it. You came up with this bouyancy/water wheel idea yourself instead of just repeating what others have said. So equally, nobody else will take your idea and develop it. Unless you finish it yourself it will be lost and ignored forever.

Are you happy for it to be lost?
Will you commit your life to this work?
Or do you accept that it may fail?