Originally Posted By: samwik
So, the important point to realize that while this graph is true, the origin of that IR can be anywhere in the atmosphere; its origin is not relegated to the earth's surface.


The source of the IR is irrelevant. The graph shows how much CO2 affects atmospheric temperature based on concentration. The point is that if CO2 is only at 20ppm, there is about 1.5 C of warming. Doubling the amount of CO2 only adds about 0.3 C. Doubling from 280 will have minimal effect.

Here is another set of graphs that were in a paper I had found a while ago.


That paper also concludes that the IPCC has overestimated the effect of CO2 through anthropogenic global warming. This minimizes the human influence on climate.

That RealClimate site is terrible. They do not allow discussion. Many have documented comments that have not been allowed because they ask difficult questions. If you want a vetting of either the RealClimate site, or the biocab paper, both were done at ClimateAudit.org. The vetting of the biocab paper is mentioned in that biocab paper itself. Search the Climate Audit site for Heat_Stored to get a few links to posts where it was at least mentioned if not discussed.

You then discuss the movment of a "quantum of 14.7 IR." That does not make sense. When two molecules collide, some portion of the energy is transferred. For you to follow the quantum of 14.7 IR is to assume that the energy is re-radiated before a collision can happen. I think we are going in circles here. You mentioned, "that extinction graph is a snapshot..." Which is the extinction graph?

Originally Posted By: paul
if I go outside and stick a thermometer in my yard it will read 65 F even if the "air" temperature is 95 F even if the "air" is 45 F the ground is 65 F so the air is always colder must be incorrect.


You cannot use a thermometer. It is the surface layer that gets warm. You need to use a better instrument. You need one that can produce a picture like the second one in Anthony Watts' "I love the smell of sewage in the morning" blog post. The only possible way for the surface to be lower in temperature is if it is a cloudy day and warm air is blown in from some other locale. That air was warmed by being in contact with the ground in that locale. This is how all forced air heating systems work. Heat the air and blow it to another room. The heat does not generally move from the air to the ground on sunny days. Heat rises. The ground gets warmed by the sun. The air is warmest right next to the ground when the sun is shining on it.

About your desk example, that a surface can transfer heat more efficiently away from your hand does not mean that it is colder than the air. I put my hand onto my desk and it feels hot, but it is in the sun. Fast moving air can remove heat from our bodies than still air. The air temperature is the same, but the rate of cooling is faster. These are similar principles. The dashboard in the car is much hotter when I park in the sun than is the shaded car seat.