Originally Posted By: coberst
In this case I would say progress is the ability to create a self sustaining world.

But then the definition of progress is limited to a human definition that recognizes itself as being less than natures ability to be self sustaining.
Originally Posted By: coberst
Human consciousness has allowed us to go beyond nature.

Never. Human consciousness is part and parcel to nature, it's only the ego that creates a system of measure that limits humanity and limits nature.
Originally Posted By: coberst
Nature has constructed a self sustaining system. Humans have displayed no ability to do likewise.
Humans are a part of nature and they demonstrate the reflection of a self sustaining process of cause and effect.

I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!