0 members (),
251
guests, and
1
robot. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,858
Megastar
|
Megastar
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,858 |
OK, let's get back to some science. The level of mercury in vaccines is about .01%. A vaccine containing 0.01% thimerosal as a preservative contains 50 micrograms of thimerosal per 0.5 mL dose or approximately 25 micrograms of mercury per 0.5 mL dose. That is about 20 ppm. That sounds terrible. But then the dose is 0.5 mL. So the total is pretty low. Then let's look at some fish. I did a check. I found a site that lists the mercury levels in various fish. The lowest level I found was .009 ppm and the highest was about 1 (there were a few that were higher, but I'm not a shark eater). So let's say that the average is 0.5 ppm. Then for a 6 ounce (170,000mg) serving of fish we get .085 mg of mercury. Paul, I hope you have completely given up on eating fish. Bill Gill
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum. C is the universal speed limit.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,311
Megastar
|
Megastar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,311 |
Stimulating comments, Paul. About the question implied in the thread title: Who first asked, Why is Mercury Used in Vaccines? You? I assume the answer given is: Because certain science experts say: IT WORKS EFFECTIVELY! Do we agree that this is so, or not so? One thing is So though, & not just SO,SO: We are back on topic, and ready to GO GO! We also have a verse to show that it is SO! Now, GO,GO,GO!!! Rev and Orac ... amaranth could you please keep people from posting off topic? Paul you say to Orac, this thread is not about religion, orac for someone who has such a hatred for religions as you do you certainly do love to talk about religion. Paul, are you sure? Where has Orac ever said to anyone--and certainly not to me--that he "hates all religions"? You also say to me, rev for someone who does not believe in God you sure do like to impose your version of what you want God to be in threads that are not about religion. My theology (opinion & belief) BTW, is unitheism. Now where is your scientific evidence that I impose my theology, or my interpretation of the Bible on anyone? The Bible, for me, is a document which I study and respect. But unless there is evidence to the contrary, the Bible is not the infallible word of an infallible 'god' theists call 'God' I repeat: My theology, unitheism, is a collection of my opinions and my beliefs--opinions that inspire me to live, " as one that serves" As Jesus put it in Luke. It is my desire to do good for others into concrete actions. As a lover of the democratic approach to life, I offer all good ideas, of all the sincere religions, to be part of an open dialogue. I abhor doctrinaire and dogmatic demagoguery which appeals to common prejudice. Therefore, I invite one and all to the dialogue about this at: " Philosophy of Religions--all religions ..." IN LUKE 22:27, Jesus said, I AM AMONG YOU AS ONE WHO SERVES--the role of a good scientist, eh!BTW, Paul, allow me to assume that you are a Bible-believing Christian theist, right? If it works for you, makes you a good person and helps you live, "as one who serves", words that Jesus used to describe his mission, go for it! Question: Can you think of any religion which has never imposed itself, its sacred literature--its Book, Bible, Koran, its teachings and the like, on others?
Last edited by Revlgking; 05/03/14 10:43 PM. Reason: Always helpful
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,311
Megastar
|
Megastar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,311 |
OK, let's get back to some science. The level of mercury in vaccines is about .01%. [quote]A vaccine containing 0.01% thimerosal as a preservative contains 50 micrograms of thimerosal per 0.5 mL dose or approximately 25 micrograms of mercury per 0.5 mL dose. Bill, I have questions: in your opinion (IYO), are vaccines safe? And, is the use of mercury in vaccines a MUST? Who are the experts? Are they worthy of our trust?
Last edited by Revlgking; 05/03/14 10:00 PM. Reason: Always helpful
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
Megastar
|
Megastar
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819 |
The figures on intake of an average adult and baby of mercury I posted above Rev K. If they aren't safe there are a hell of a lot more things that are even more unsafe like eating fish and eating certain vegetables like spinach and they should be banned. The biggest risk by far from vaccines is adverse reactions to the vaccine itself and hence why it requires rigorous testing. Those are USA figures the numbers from China are a lot more scary because it estimated by China itself that 25% of it's agriculture land is polluted with heavy metals Source: https://www.chinafile.com/Almost-One-Fifth-Chinas-Arable-Land-PollutedA lot of this argument is very American centric .. hey at least it is not guns That said as was recognized above is they are taking steps to reduce the levels of mercury because this is the latest argument by the anti-vacination nutters. Personally I don't see the point most of these groups have a background issue (religion/anti tech etc) as to why they oppose vaccinations and you will never convince them they will find the next thing to complain about. For anyone worried about their levels of mercury in their body there is a whole industry in the alternative lifestyle arena built around detox of it out of the body Unfortunately what many who fall victim to this stuff don't consider is they are simply falling victim to another advertising campaign to buy something they don't really need. I guess it is one up from killing Rhino for the horns to improve your sexual function because at least in general no animals died for these detox "cures". Personally for adults I support people should have the right to do what they think best and that includes Euthanasia which puts me at odds with many religions. The tricky part comes with children who can't make a choice and and so we get the argument does the parent or the government get to decide for a child?
Last edited by Orac; 05/04/14 04:56 AM.
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
Megastar
|
OP
Megastar
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136 |
the below isnt from me , its from the FDA. Vaccines with mercury have been considered to contribute to autism, learning disabilities, Alzheimer’s Disease, and other neurological conditions, and an FDA review conducted in 1998 determined that, at the time, children who received the full complement of childhood vaccines were potentially exposed to levels of mercury that were sometimes 30 to 50 times the acceptable levels established by the EPA.
High-level exposures to mercury can cause serious effects or even be lethal. Several historical examples of epidemic mercury poisonings in other parts of the world provide classic examples of investigative epidemiology and toxicology and serve to highlight the reasons why regulators are concerned about mercury. Effects on the brain and nervous system are frequently seen with high-level exposures to mercury and can be quite severe.
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
Megastar
|
Megastar
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819 |
Again those were historic not what currently happens and the levels are still well below what many babies in other countries routinely are exposed to. America has acted by law to meet it's own regulations and those levels are very low by world standards you don't see massive problems in other countries so the risk was very low. The realty is if you measure how many children die to gun accidents in there own home it would put the risk in sharp context but then the Nation Riflemen Association probably would complain because they are all good guys apparently The grim story of children and guns in USA is rather grim http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/he...ticle-1.1592703 About 20 children and teens per day in the U.S. went to the emergency room with a gun injury in 2009, according to a new study of ER data. Six percent ultimately died from their injuries. I am not sure vaccinations goes anywhere near those numbers or is it's biggest problem, let us at least put all the risks in perspective for children in USA.
Last edited by Orac; 05/04/14 12:43 PM.
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,858
Megastar
|
Megastar
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,858 |
the below isnt from me , its from the FDA. Vaccines with mercury have been considered to contribute to autism, learning disabilities, Alzheimer’s Disease, and other neurological conditions, and an FDA review conducted in 1998 determined that, at the time, children who received the full complement of childhood vaccines were potentially exposed to levels of mercury that were sometimes 30 to 50 times the acceptable levels established by the EPA.
High-level exposures to mercury can cause serious effects or even be lethal. Several historical examples of epidemic mercury poisonings in other parts of the world provide classic examples of investigative epidemiology and toxicology and serve to highlight the reasons why regulators are concerned about mercury. Effects on the brain and nervous system are frequently seen with high-level exposures to mercury and can be quite severe. Can you give me a link to where the FDA has this posted? I would like to see the original report. Bill Gill
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum. C is the universal speed limit.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
Megastar
|
OP
Megastar
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136 |
the link to the page that I quoted is in the first post in this thread. from what I understand doctors are aware that vaccines that do not contain thimerosal are available but are still using the vaccines containing thimerosal because they are still on the shelf and still available to purchase. and the FDA wants thimerosal removed as a preservative. which brings us back to the title of this topic " why is mercury used in vaccines " here is some more to read. http://cerhr.niehs.nih.gov/common/mercury.html here is the FDA web site http://www.fda.gov/ here is where big pharma showed its appreciation and gave a $226,000.00 donation and bought 5000 copies of a senators book. Frist's bill would protect Eli Lilly and other vaccine makers from lawsuits, including the growing controversy of thimerosal. When writing the bill, Frist consulted with Eli Lilly, as well as other interested parties. In 2002, Eli Lilly and the company's employees contributed $226,250 to the National Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee that Frist has led. When Frist wrote a book on bioterrorism that was published following the September 11, 2001 attacks, Eli Lilly bought 5,000 copies of it and distributed the book to doctors around the U.S. now don't ask me why you cant find the document if you cant find it , just ask the $226,000.00 what it did with it. http://www.thimerosal-litigation.com/
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,858
Megastar
|
Megastar
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,858 |
the link to the page that I quoted is in the first post in this thread. I can't find that quote in the link to the government web page. I did find it in the link to the anti-vaccination web page. That doesn't count as being from the FDA, it counts as an unconfirmed quote. It is not from the FDA as you stated. The original study which implicated vaccines in autism has been completely refuted and withdrawn. Bill Gill
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum. C is the universal speed limit.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
Megastar
|
OP
Megastar
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136 |
It is not from the FDA as you stated.
I didn't state it , the info on the link did. maybe they had a dead link because corrupt politics was able to refute and withdraw the document so they removed the dead link. also I couldn't find it either , so I guess that the 1/4 million dollar contribution paid off. or was it the 5000 copies of the senators book. anyway its nice to know that big pharma is allowed to consult with elected officials while they are writing bills that would protect them from lawsuits that might be pursued by the people who elected them. this way big pharma writes the laws that govern big pharma and they only need to contribute to election funds and buy books for doctors written by senators who also write the laws in return. Lilly boosted the sales of Frist's book on bioterrorism, published after Sept. 11, 2001, by buying 5,000 copies and distributing them to doctors.
Smith, Frist's spokesman, said Lilly's promotion of the book did not affect the company's relationship with the senator.
"All of the book sales were handled by the publisher," Smith said. "I don't know that Senator Frist knew who was buying how many copies at what time."
As the head of the political committee to elect Republican senators, Frist was heavily involved in fund raising.
The pharmaceutical and health products industry gave the Republican campaign committee nearly $4 million, the largest amount from a corporate contributor, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.
Jamie Court, executive director of the Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights, said the liability protection is the drug companies' "first payback" for big campaign contributions.
http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/December2002/FristsNewSenate24.htm The original study which implicated vaccines in autism has been completely refuted and withdrawn.
do you have a link to that info? or has that info been refuted and withdrawn also? if it hasn't yet been refuted and withdrawn as you call it how much of a contribution would it take to get it refuted and withdrawn? and to which political party should the bribe be addresses to?
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,858
Megastar
|
Megastar
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,858 |
I don't see why I am supposed to do all the research on real science while you get by with only using fake science. Do a search and you will find plenty of places where the connection between vaccines and autism have been completely refuted in many studies. Nobody was ever able to duplicate the information in the one study that claimed such a connection. That is one of the major points of scientific research. All experiments must be repeatable and give the same results or it is wrong.
Bill Gill
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum. C is the universal speed limit.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
Megastar
|
OP
Megastar
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136 |
you did ask me this about what I posted. Can you give me a link to where the FDA has this posted? I would like to see the original report. then you said this The original study which implicated vaccines in autism has been completely refuted and withdrawn. I would like to read the document that shows that The original study which implicated vaccines in autism has been completely refuted and withdrawn. if its in plenty of places then you should have no problem finding and posting the link. after all if its not fake science then it must be in there with the real science somewhere.. maybe it will pop up in a parallel universe and you can find it with a QM browser. Nobody was ever able to duplicate the information in the one study that claimed such a connection. could I suggest that the 4 million dollars had something to do with that? I wonder where the original documents from the original study are located.
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,858
Megastar
|
Megastar
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,858 |
Paul, you're the one making the outrageous unscientific claims. So you are the one that needs to prove them.
Bill Gill
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum. C is the universal speed limit.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
Megastar
|
OP
Megastar
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136 |
So you are the one that needs to prove them.
I take it that you just made up your claims then if you cant provide any reference to what you claimed. you're the one making the outrageous unscientific claims. if I have made outrageous unscientific claims then would you be so kind as to point them out to me? we being myself and the readers of the forum cant just take your word for it , we need some type of reference material. that's why I asked you for a link to your claim.
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
Megastar
|
Megastar
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819 |
Paul you made a claim that the levels of Mercury where 20-50 times over the FDA levels ... that is a claim to anyone who can read.
Bill has challenged you to show that is so because he can find no reference to that from the FDA .... pretty basic even for you I would have thought.
So it's either an unsubstantiated claim or the evidence of the claim exists.
Personally I don't care all these levels are really low perhaps google what the average level is in Japan in babies and adults.
Last edited by Orac; 05/05/14 04:06 PM.
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,858
Megastar
|
Megastar
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,858 |
Ok, I admit I am a wimp, I didn't stand my ground. I went ahead and did some research on the topic. Here is the Wikipedia article on Adam Wakefield who was the one that made the first claim. And I'm not going to list a bunch of links that point to refutations of Wakefield's claims. Instead here is a link to the Google search results. I think that should cover the field. There seem to be a lot of results that completely refute the vaccine autism connection. The first questions were raised when nobody else could repeat Wakefield's works. Since then there has been no reliable study that provides any indication of such a connection. And that is how science works. And of course according to the Wikipedia article it appears Wakefield deliberately falsified his results. Bill Gill
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum. C is the universal speed limit.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
Megastar
|
Megastar
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819 |
You can definitively refute Wakefield go and look at what happened in Japan they stopped the MMR injections in 1993 and the Autism rate continued to spiral upward hitting a new high last year of 1 in 38 children.
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,311
Megastar
|
Megastar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,311 |
AS ONE WHO RESPECTS ALL USEFUL SCIENCE, I ASK, Has anyone ever asked the following questions:
How safe is it to vaccinate people with very weak immune systems?
Or, what about people who are simply starving for lack of essential, or even basic nutrients?
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 962
Superstar
|
Superstar
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 962 |
As far as vaccinating people with very weak immune systems, it would be practical to use a killed virus vaccine and not a live attenuated one. However, the whole point of a person with a weak immune system is that they don't produce normal levels of antibodies, so vaccinating them is probably an exercise in futility, if you think about it. People who are in a severely deficient nutritional state probably don't have the energy to spare to mount an immune response, but I expect it would have some success. Wakefield has been refuted, but he got more press than the ones who did the refuting, and so it has gone on and on. Thimerosal or no thimerosal, the autism rate has gone upward at a dizzying rate. As Orac noted, autism is on the rise even in countries that don't use thimerosal-treated vaccines. If it is an environmental thing, there must be more of it in Japan than here in the US. We know so little about autism that it is hard to say definitively that any one thing is a cause. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/for-children-with-autism-brain-abnormalities-may-begin-in-utero/New evidence suggests that the brains of autistic children have structural differences when compared to the brains of non-autistic children. Research suggests these changes are present by the second or third trimester of pregnancy. It would be hard to show any effect of thimerosal at that stage of development.
If you don't care for reality, just wait a while; another will be along shortly. --A Rose
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
Megastar
|
Megastar
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819 |
From what I was reading it appears that the identical twin studies are actually also showing it is what happens in the womb that matters for those who have the genetic disposition and then the enviromental factors feed into that.
It looks like it is a very complex mechanism and it is as much about the mothers lifestyle as it is the child.
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
|
|
|
|
|