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#49561 08/27/13 01:00 AM
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America, the UK, and France, are horrified at
the gassing of the Syrian Rebels

It seems the world is far too cautious, and
following Russia in wanting absolute proof to
be laid before the UN before anything is done.

Its my opinion that no proof is needed.

Look at it this way....if any Nation was to
fire, or drop, even a small Nuclear shell
onto another country....World retaliation
would be concerted and immediate....with
absolutely no UN disscusion or talk required,

Such is the power should any country set off a
Nuclear Warhead.

That, in my opinion is exactly where poison
gas should be...put in the same category as
Nuclear shells/bombs etc.
Use it, and that country would be stamped
upon....No UN talks would be required.

Syria has spend millions of dollars with
Russia to obtain the latest Frequency hopping
Radar and ground missiles that will come into
action and shoot down anything that flies over
its territory.

Sorry Syria that just is'nt going to happen,
the Americans have Cruise missile bases in
Turkey and Jordan, while the US navy has moved
warships off the coast of Syria, equipped with
additional Cruise missiles.

Also the UK has a large permanent base in
Cyprus, full of missiles and listening devices.

I guarantee that when the West comes
to its senses, cruise missiles will take out
Syrian airfields, Army barracks, and Assad's
Presidential Palace.
Eventially Assad will be captured and tried at
the Hague for war crimes.

Remember all those countries around Syria have
over 2 million plus, poor Syrian refugees lingering
in camps.....awaiting the outcome, to go back home.
Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey want their refugees
out and back...ASAP. They welcome the Americans.


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"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.


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Mike

the U.S. cant just launch an attack whenever it wants to
it must first figure out who launched the chemical attack.

IMO , before any type of attack or measures are taken against
any entity the U.S. needs proof beyond doubt and Congress must approve of any actions to be carried out.

contrary to popular belief this is not a 1 man show that we have over here in the U.S. , ie... we dont have a King that dictates to American Citizens , we have a President who can only approve or not approve any actions that the U.S. Congress has approved.

thats why its called a Democracy and not a Monarchy.

he said this or she said that carries no weight with the U.S.
when this type of decision is needed.

sure if there was a trajectory of a nuclear attack that was recorded then reprisal would be quick , but there was no trajectory that I have heard of.

this is why the U.S. intelligence agencies need access to
certain information , so that trajectories can be found...

think about it this way Mike , the U.S. , Russia , China ,
all the major powers in the world do this type of intelligence gathering , they just havent been caught yet.

decreasing the ability of the U.S. intelligence agencies to
gather information will only decrease the ability of the U.S.
intelligence agencies to find trajectories.

if the U.S. can no longer gather this information do you think
that the other world powers will just stop collecting this same information?

I dont think so.

I wouldnt say that we are too cautious , but I do hope that we
will be correct in our findings.

striking out in anger in order to appease our feelings about this chemical attack , to blindly take revenge out on any entity because our feelings tell us to , without knowing that
we are making the correct decision , without considering all
possible origins of the attack , may result in an even more
heinous crime against an innocent entity.

we may not even be considering the guilty party !

which is another reason why intelligence gathering plays such an important role in national security , it can prevent mistakes from ever occurring.

dont always believe only what you see on the TV or read in
the news paper.

because what you see on the TV and what you read in the news paper is exactly what the TV and news paper want you to
believe.




3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
paul #49567 08/27/13 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: Mike Kremer


Yes Paul, you are quite correct...you are taking the
careful considered views of proof that the United Nations,
backed up by its member and nonmember countries, present to the world, in the form of debates and proofs and votes.....

Prior to "handcuffing", and banning its imports or exports, plus locking out and freezing its external Bank accounts etc.

In the hope that the Non-Democratic country will at least make some democratic changes.

Those changes are a long time comming if ever....havent you noticed that any Dictatorship loves disrupting the UN forum by
voting against the majority motions etc....Or putting down their own new motions....all delaying tactics.

That is the problem with Democracy it requires AGREEMENT that
takes time....Its the only thing we have, that keeps (everyone happy?)

You are also correct when you say-"if there was a trajectory of a nuclear attack that was recorded, reprisal would be quick"

Yes Paul thats exactly why I would put Poison Gas into the same catagory as a nuclear attack !
We need to have an instant reprisal

All a Gas attack requires are some small cannisters to be dropped and release their contents once they hit the ground....silent and deadly.....you have no time to call anyone....you die in agony, immobile.

Now think on this....look at the pictures.
Just why did the Syrians drop Bombs upon the areas that had been previously gassed?? Drop bombs upon people that had been already gassed???

And then wait at least five days before allowing any UN Inspectors in to collect evidence?

The reason for the bombing and the five day wait was;-
To ensure that any Mobile phone batterys had died
and to hope that any mobile phones, or hastily scribbled notes would had been blown away from a possible user.

Syrians are clever and made it difficult for UN inspectors to find any reliable evidence

The UK is going to recall Parliement and disscuss

Soon I think the US and UK will both put their guided missiles into Syria....with or without Russian, Chinese or UN agreement



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"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.


paul #49568 08/27/13 02:20 PM
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Quote:
thats why its called a Democracy and not a Monarchy.

Francis Bellamy's original:
I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.


Democratic process undermines laws meant to protect the rights of people. A majority of misguided people can take God given natural laws and twist them into a G~O~D defined as a special acronym, with special meanings to enhance special powers for special people.


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




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Quote:
We need to have an instant reprisal


and what evidence would we base that reprisal on?

or should we simply throw a dart at a world map and
let the dart decide which country we launch the cruise
missiles into.

what would be the difference between no evidence and
the dart / map method of decision making.

Quote:
The reason for the bombing and the five day wait was;-
To ensure that any Mobile phone batterys had died


I have a cheap pay phone and it hardly ever needs charging
I havent charged it in over 6 months , I just checked it and
it has half of its charge still on it.

IMO , that doesnt hold much water as evidence for an attack.

I'm not taking sides here either , I only look at what I have
to look at , and so far its only speculation.

these are my top 10 choices of probable cause for the
chemical attack so far...

1) the central bankers.
2) the U.N. / NWO / globalist
3) the central bankers
4) the globalist / UN / NWO
5) the central bankers
6) the central bankers
7,8,9,10) the central bankers / NWO / UN / globalist

my top 2 choices of innocent entities are as follows.

1) Syria / rebel forces
2) rebel forces / Syria







3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
paul #49573 08/28/13 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted By: paul
Quote:
We need to have an instant reprisal


and what evidence would we base that reprisal on?

Originally Posted By: Mike Kremer
[quote] I thought I had made it plain in my previous post. Lobbing off Uranium shells/bombs, gets an instant reprisal. You even agreed that it would, in your previous post. So put Poison gas in the same category as Nuclear...No future problems


or should we simply throw a dart at a world map and
let the dart decide which country we launch the cruise
missiles into.

what would be the difference between no evidence and
the dart / map method of decision making.

[quote]The reason for the bombing and the five day wait was;-
To ensure that any Mobile phone batterys had died


I have a cheap pay phone and it hardly ever needs charging
I havent charged it in over 6 months , I just checked it and
it has half of its charge still on it.

Originally Posted By: Mike Kremer
Quote:
Yes well lets see if the UN Inspectors found ANY mbl phones or hastly scribbled
dying notes, those five days later.


IMO , that doesnt hold much water as evidence for an attack.

I'm not taking sides here either , I only look at what I have
to look at , and so far its only speculation.

these are my top 10 choices of probable cause for the
chemical attack so far...

1) the central bankers.
2) the U.N. / NWO / globalist
3) the central bankers
4) the globalist / UN / NWO
5) the central bankers
6) the central bankers
7,8,9,10) the central bankers / NWO / UN / globalist

my top 2 choices of innocent entities are as follows.

1) Syria / rebel forces
2) rebel forces / Syria

Originally Posted By: Mike Kremer
[quote] Sorry paul ...I am not going to reply to that Bankers crap who you believe are the cause of all the worlds problems.


Originally Posted By: Mike Kremer

Mike Kremer said... If you are still looking for more proof Wait 24 hours ...I believe that President Obahma has audio radio data from the Syrian plane pilots who actually dropped the gas on their own people.
You do realise Syria is in a state of Civil war don't you?

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/

And here looks like the SAUDIS want Russia to forget about Syria.... In return it will allow Russia to control Arabic Oil?!?!?!?!
NOW THATS something to think about Huh???

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsb...rops-Syria.html





Last edited by Mike Kremer; 08/28/13 01:04 AM. Reason: syntax

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Quote:
Originally Posted By: paul
Quote:
We need to have an instant reprisal


and what evidence would we base that reprisal on?

Originally Posted By: Mike Kremer
[quote] I thought I had made it plain in my previous post. Lobbing off Uranium shells/bombs, gets an instant reprisal. You even agreed that it would, in your previous post. So put Poison gas in the same category as Nuclear...No future problems



or should we simply throw a dart at a world map and
let the dart decide
Quote:
which country
we launch the cruise
Quote:
Originally Posted By: paul
Quote:
We need to have an instant reprisal


and what evidence would we base that reprisal on?

Originally Posted By: Mike Kremer
[quote] I thought I had made it plain in my previous post. Lobbing off Uranium shells/bombs, gets an instant reprisal. You even agreed that it would, in your previous post. So put Poison gas in the same category as Nuclear...No future problems



or should we simply throw a dart at a world map and
let the dart decide
Quote:
which country
we launch the cruise
missiles into.

what would be the difference between no evidence and
the dart / map method of decision making.

Quote:
The reason for the bombing and the five day wait was;-
To ensure that any Mobile phone batterys had died

missiles into.

what would be the difference between no evidence and
the dart / map method of decision making.

Quote:
The reason for the bombing and the five day wait was;-
To ensure that any Mobile phone batterys had died


3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
paul #49579 08/28/13 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: Mike Kremer


Mike Kremer said;-
This is the last time i am going to repeat myself

"You do realise Syria is in a state of Civil war don't you?"

... If you are still looking for more proof Wait 24 hours ...I believe that President Obahma has audio radio data from the Syrian plane pilots who actually dropped the gas on their own people.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/

And here looks like the SAUDIS want Russia to forget about Syria.... In return it will allow Russia to control Arabic Oil?!?!?!?!
NOW THATS something to think about Huh???

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsb...rops-Syria.html

(Of course if you dont think , I wont expect a comment)



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Mike

Why do your post look the way they do?

why dont you reply in the same format as everybody else
on this forum?

its really hard to determine / pick through what your posting
and its intended focus as you post the entire document as a
reference to your comments.

ie... your quoted portions include previous qoutes from
other posters , making the focus of your comment unclear.

-------------- TRY IT THIS WAY --------------------------

here is some text that you posted that I might want to
reply to.

Quote:
This is the last time i am going to repeat myself


notice that I put the focus of what I am replying to in quotation !!!
not the entire post that I am replying to.

Quote:

"You do realise Syria is in a state of Civil war don't you?"


Syria is in a state of toppling / overthrow by the NWO
and its decades long plans for control.

you may be blind to this , which puts you in the lower 10%
of world population.

.....

as for waiting the 24 hours for the intel collected by
the U.S. intelligence agencies , they seem to have telephone
conversations that point to the launch of chemical weapons by
the Syrian Government.

and there were missiles found that were intact.

this points to the Syrian Govt as the culprit in the attack
even clearer.

but, and dont underestimate this.

anyone can place calls , and pieces of missiles can also be placed.

the inspectors need to collect the chemical traces from
the impact area and confirm the origination of the chemicals.

we are discussing a large scale event here , and a few days of
waiting even weeks to make sure that we are correct in our findings is the proper thing to do.

Russia , China , and several other Nations Military forces
are committed to defending the Syrian Govt...

this will not be like the strong U.S. Military picking on the weak guys that only have sticks and stones when comparing defensive weapon systems , this will be an all out bloody conflict.

I have no doubt that the U.S. and its Allies will come
through this as the victors , and that Syria will become
a puppet of the NWO.

but there will be enormous loss of life in the process
and the U.S. and its Allies will exit with new enemies
that were our allies in the past.

China will suffer greatly from economic sanctions during
and after the conflict as will Russia and all of the Nations
that assist in defensive actions against the NWO and its
takeover of Syria.

Saudi Arabia has offered Russia the control of its oil if
Russia will stand down , Im not clear about that , I cant see
the NWO allowing that to occur , as power is only possible
through money.

and the control of oil is power through money.

I think that Russia and China should both stand down.

if Russia accepts Saudi Arabia's proposal then the NWO may
see this as a victory with attachments that will require future actions.

that is my thoughts on the issue.

but try to work on your replies Mike , by allowing focus
to prevail in your replies.




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Originally Posted By: MK
Its my opinion that no proof is needed.


What happened to the principle of assumption of innocence until proven guilty?

Of course, there is a certain logic in your solution, Mike:

There's a humanitarian problem here, people are suffering.

Let's bomb the Hell out of them, then there will be less people suffering.


There never was nothing.
Bill S. #49597 08/29/13 11:39 PM
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I see that the U.K. has decided to wait until after the U.N.
has finished its investigation ( this Saturday ) before it makes its parliamentary decision about Syria.

lets look at what the U.S. War Powers Resolution of 1973
(50 U.S.C. 1541-1548) has to say.

Quote:
The War Powers Resolution requires the President to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days, with a further 30 day withdrawal period, without an authorization of the use of military force or a declaration of war.


I guess that a President that uses the above Resolution surely
expects that the Armed Forces would not be required for more than 60 days.

now lets look at what the U.S. Constitution says about who has the power to declare war.

Quote:

Under the United States Constitution, war powers are divided. Congress has the power to declare war, raise and support the armed forces, control the war funding (Article I, Section 8), and has "Power to make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof", while the President is commander-in-chief of the military


so from the way I read it , Congress has the power to declare war.

the President is the Commander in Chief of the Military.

it does not say that the President can declare war!

I truly dont have any Faith at all that an engagement with a
heavily armed world power such as Russia , China , etc...
will last only 60 days , therefore this could not possibly be confused as being a police action which is covered by the
War powers Resolution.

that is so simple to see.

Congress does not mean a cherry picked handful of the Members of Congress.

Congress means to call all Congress Members.

I understand they are on vacation , but calling a special session should take place.

because this is something that all American Citizens want to be represented in not some closed door meeting to determine if we go to war with several of the worlds largest powers.

Quote:
The last time the House was plucked out of summer recess was to pass an emergency spending bill in 2005, following Hurricane Katrina. And earlier that year, Republican leaders had called members back on Palm Sunday to deal with the case of Terri Schiavo, whose husband wanted to remove her feeding tube following Schiavo's 15 years in a vegetative state. (Republican leaders opposed the measure alongside Schiavo's parents, though they were eventually overruled by the courts.) But, according to the House historian's office, House members have only returned during summer breaks to do business two other times once in 1980 and once in 1991 in the past 30 years.

Read more: http://content.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,2009480,00.html#ixzz2dPbTXz3J


I think that actions that most likely will result in a really
big war is a qualifying reason given the above reasons that special sessions have been called.






3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
paul #49614 08/31/13 03:17 PM
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...an-planned.html

Finally !!!

Quote:
US satellites also picked up rockets being prepared and launched from regime territory into the rebel-held Ghouta area shortly before hundreds of civilians, including 426 children, began to foam at the mouth and fall dead "unstained by a single drop of blood".


to me that is beyond doubt evidence , that a ordnance
delivery was made from the Syrian Govt forces territory
to Rebel forces territory.

and , this was most likely recorded.

and from the recording there should also clearly be
seen either an large explosion upon ordnance delivery or no significant explosion if this was a chemical attack.

and a precise location of delivery should be shown in the satellite data.

ie.. if the Satellite data shows preparation and launch and delivery locations and U.N. inspectors can confirm that the gas traces found are consistent with the delivery locations in the Satellite data then that is a done deal and the U.S.
will not need to determine who manufactured the gas.

although the manufacturers of the gas will be determined
anyway , I would think.

if the above data matches then the manufacturers of the gas would no longer be relevant in order to support a Military action by the U.S. in my opinion.

...

if this information is available then it should be made public
so that the World can see the evidence that the U.S. has gathered to support any Military actions that it deems necessary in response to the attack.


3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
paul #49615 08/31/13 03:30 PM
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Yes all noted Paul , thank you, no comments at this time.


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President Obama and Vice President Joe Biden
on Congressional approval concerning Syria and a few
notable and interesting remarks about U.S. Congressional leaders.



The U.K. recently showed the world that its Government is not
a 1 man show ( cheers ), now the U.S. has shown the world that its Government is also not a 1 man show.

Democracy.

you gotta love it.


3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
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Quote:
The team collected samples from the rebel-held areas in the Ghouta suburb of Damascus three times, taking blood, tissue and hair samples from victims.

They also took samples of soil, clothing and rocket fragments.

The experts will be testing for Sarin, mustard gas and other toxic agents.


Quote:
"These procedures may take up to three weeks.


Nobody seems to think that current evidence , what ever that may be can be used to qualify an attack on Syria.

it seems as if they just want Russia and China and the world for that matter to just believe that there is evidence.

everywhere I look its just more , he said, she said, but no evidence.

The U.S. must not forget that Russia and China also have
Intelligence gathering agencies that may already have evidence
that could repaint the barn once painted.

waiting for the U.N. inspectors conclusion and evidence
even if it takes a month or longer , should be the desired
path to take.

and unless there is a bush era need for secrecy and fear
tactics that will obviously lead to even more bad public relations among U.S. Citizens and possibly even world opinion
concerning U.S. actions , then the evidence that the decision is based upon will need to be made public.

and this evidence first needs to be made available to the
U.S. Congress so that they have the needed material to make their decision.

if Congress is not given the evidence then even its decision
will not carry much weight.

you cannot make a decision without reasons for making a decision.



3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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