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#44692 - 08/12/12 07:04 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
GM Foods:

they are not safe in my opinion.
they will cause mass starvation.

check the news today concerning corn.

any GM product should be stringently tested for decades before
its allowed to interact with our environment.

and the testing should be done by concerned individuals
not the industry.

concerned volunteers whos financial records are monitored.

gold nano particles:

its dinner time and my chicken thighs on the george forman grill are done , I still need to cook the okra and tomatoes
and rice , and the tea pitcher is almost empty so I also have
to make some tea.

Im thinking that natural gold does not dissolve in nature unless it is exposed to an acidic environment.

such as swamps.
also certain bacteria will grow gold ! sort of.

let me get back to you on this , ok.

heres an interesting bit on bacteria that disolve gold

http://news.discovery.com/earth/gold-bacteria-nuggets.html

Quote:
Gold nuggets are often the creations of bacterial biofilms, say Australian researchers who have demonstrated the process and even identified the bacteria at work.

Layers of bacteria can actually dissolve gold into nanoparticles, which move through rocks and soils, and then deposit it in other places, sometimes creating purer "secondary" gold deposits in cracks and crevices of rocks. The process overturns the long-held belief by some scientists that gold ore is created only by "primary" physical geological processes.


so thats what that stuff is that cloggs up my well.

I never have figured out a way to keep that gold looking
junk out of my garden.

its not just gold though its copper also and some silvery mess
that accumulates on the surface of any container that I put the well water in.

it forms a shiny metalic surface.

when I dip a leaf into it the slime sticks to the leaf.
I let it dry and some of the gold just dissapears depending
on how long it dries.

I burn the leaf and it leaves a tiny ball of gold.
I guess its gold.

this never happened before, I did something that I believe
caused this to happen.

note:
just in case others have observed this slime in their well water , its toxic if its gold.

Quote:
"We tagged the DNA and saw the beautiful active biofilm (dissolving the gold)," said Brugger. "That was very interesting because gold in soluble form is very toxic." That dissolved gold can then be redeposited in other places in a much purer form.


just thought I would throw that in...

but thats not on topic so , lets continue.

the ingredient in tea leaves is what cures the prostate cancer
so couldnt bacteria be used to disolve the natural gold into nanoparticles vs the expensive nuclear process?

would this work?

or is this too natural for science.

_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
.
#44698 - 08/13/12 03:52 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: paul
GM Foods:

they are not safe in my opinion.
they will cause mass starvation.

check the news today concerning corn.

any GM product should be stringently tested for decades before
its allowed to interact with our environment.

and the testing should be done by concerned individuals
not the industry.

concerned volunteers whos financial records are monitored.



So this response begs the question GM needs to be tested for decades to determine if it's safe yet silver nanoparticles we should be swilling tomorrow. Isn't that inconsistant logic?

Concerned individuals whose financials are monitored? What about donations to organizations, placement in wils, sexual favours etc there are many ways to "pay" for things. Con men and witchdoctors will always find ways to go around such monitoring.


Quote:

the ingredient in tea leaves is what cures the prostate cancer
so couldnt bacteria be used to disolve the natural gold into nanoparticles vs the expensive nuclear process?

would this work?

or is this too natural for science.


I am not sure why you think science is against nature ... I find that comment a bit weird.

Your suggestion above is sort of what science does look at natural compounds that have an effect and try and work out what the active ingredient is and how to purify it, deliver it better and improve the results. It is a good thought and would be worth investigating.

Aprin which you wrote a large discussion on is a typical example. Salicylic acid the main active ingredient of asprin comes from the word salix in latin which means willow tree. The origin of the name is because the compound was first discovered from a herbal rememeby made from the bark of the willow tree from pre-BC times.


Edited by Orac (08/13/12 03:53 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

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#44701 - 08/13/12 06:05 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
this response begs the question GM needs to be tested for decades to determine if it's safe yet silver nanoparticles we should be swilling tomorrow. Isn't that inconsistant logic?


silvers not toxic.
unless you take too much of it.
but if you take too much of anything its harmful.
this is exactly why the FDA needs to determine safe levels through another study.

plus theres a big difference and the
two ( silver and GM ) should not be used as a comparison.

silver might be found to be harmful to (a) human.

but GM foods could harm (all) humans.

Quote:
Concerned individuals whose financials are monitored? What about donations to organizations, placement in wils, sexual favours etc there are many ways to "pay" for things. Con men and witchdoctors will always find ways to go around such monitoring.



but we wouldnt be trying to get politicians to do the studies either , so I almost feel safe using concerned citizens for that purpose , as it stands big pharma tells the FDA what to do , not the other way around.

they test their own products under their own rules.

Quote:
I am not sure why you think science is against nature ... I find that comment a bit weird.


Im just saying that when natural remedies are being used to
treat an illness , science tends to make the natural remedy look as if it is quackery.

probably because doctors havent been educated in the use
of natural remedies , they are only taught to use prescription drugs for illnesses.

Quote:
It is a good thought and would be worth investigating.


I thought so myself , it would be more along the lines of
micro biology rather than nuclear medicine but it is the
final product that would count , not the method of producing the product.


but wouldnt the bioaccumulation of gold still be a factor?

but there are products in use today that can rid the body of
the gold particles , such as penicillamine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penicillamine

and Dimercaprol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimercaprol


_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#44702 - 08/13/12 12:01 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK

Originally Posted By: Mike Kremer

Mike Kremer wrote,

'Excellent information regarding your last two URL's,
Re Chelating agents, Thanks

In a previous letter, Orac mentions tea can cure prostate cancer,
I know all tea comes from the same source (bush?) But I understood that it was green tea that is the more beneficial heathwise, (being the more natural)?
I wonder if this is due because green tea leaves are picked and
immediately packaged for use?
While (black) tea is picked and allowed to ferment to get its black color.


_________________________
.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



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#44703 - 08/13/12 01:21 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: paul

plus theres a big difference and the
two ( silver and GM ) should not be used as a comparison.

silver might be found to be harmful to (a) human.

but GM foods could harm (all) humans.


Thats all well and fine UNTIL YOU ARE THE ONE PERSON.

So it's about time I come clean

Humans:
http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/34/3/559.abstract
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120314100416.htm
http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1206/1206.4816.pdf

Mice:
http://actanaturae.ru/article.aspx?id=168

Rats:
http://www.academicjournals.org/ajmr/PDF/Pdf2012/19July/Sardari%20et%20al.pdf

Aquatic life:
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/nn204671v
http://www1.cnsi.ucla.edu/news/item?item_id=2063451

The enviroment:
http://advancinggreenchemistry.org/?p=2730
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080429135502.htm



QUESTIONS:

1.) Still want to be the first to start swilling the stuff down?

2.) Under you concerned people proposal science and FDA are sidelined now because we are so evil ... so who is responsible for finding these things out and telling people?


Originally Posted By: paul

Im just saying that when natural remedies are being used to
treat an illness , science tends to make the natural remedy look as if it is quackery.

probably because doctors havent been educated in the use
of natural remedies , they are only taught to use prescription drugs for illnesses.


OR it could be that many of the so called remedies have absolutely no proof they do anything.

I have no problem with natural remedies so long as they are not wives tales and witchdoctor reviews. So what the natural remedies people should be doing is organize rigorous testing.

You complain about the big pharma companies but they do alot of testing on there drugs and when they stuff up there testing and people die they face lawsuits.

If your concerned people stuff up like they may in the above case of nano-particle silver and I get testicular cancer WHO DOES MY FAMILY SEEK COMPENSATION FROM ?


Originally Posted By: paul

I thought so myself , it would be more along the lines of
micro biology rather than nuclear medicine but it is the
final product that would count , not the method of producing the product.

but wouldnt the bioaccumulation of gold still be a factor?

but there are products in use today that can rid the body of
the gold particles , such as penicillamine.


And again I have no problem with any of that BUT it all neeeds testing before we start telling people it is safe to do this sort of stuff.


SO QUESTION:
Who does all that testing and how do they pay for it?


Edited by Orac (08/13/12 01:23 PM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

Top
#44704 - 08/13/12 03:06 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
your first link concerns acrylics in the workplace.

http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/34/3/559.abstract

which is a very important matter , not just because of the
workers but because of the ventilation that exhaust the polyacrylics into the atmosphere that others outside the factory can breath in.

proper safety measures are not being followed in asia as the factories must cut the cost of manufacturing due to demands
by their share holders / customers.

globalization does not care about people it only cares about money.

this link was important but not in context with our discussion.

your second link

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120314100416.htm

possible consequences for fertility!

that would be a good trade off , if your other options are
what is currently available as treatments of many illnesses.

and knowing that the survival rate is around 1 in 20 or something like that given that you exclude the first 5 years
after treatment.

your third link
http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1206/1206.4816.pdf

this is the type of study that is needed.
and many studies are needed.

with graphs that show particle size and absorption
amounts, a quick reference , something to use as a tool.

standards if / when possible.

I agree with you that these types of studies would be expensive , but who would benefit from these studies?

Quote:
Who does all that testing and how do they pay for it?


Insurance companies !!!

insurance is mandatory , 1 or 2 prevented lawsuits would
pay for several studies and a research facility.


I havent read the other links yet , its oatmeal time.
the coffee was really good and the reading was interesting
my keyboard is not cooperating with me this morning so
I need the extra strength to bang on the keys to ensure that each character is placed in its correct position.

Quote:
OR it could be that many of the so called remedies have absolutely no proof they do anything.


well , as it stands we only have testimonials from users of
the remedies , so how do you get proof?

clinical studies !

who performs clinical studies?

the people who are constantly claiming that there is no proof!





Top
#44711 - 08/13/12 04:31 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Mike Kremer]
Bill S. Offline
Megastar

Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 3570
Loc: Essex, UK
Quote:
who performs clinical studies?

the people who are constantly claiming that there is no proof!


Wow! some good conspiracy stuff here.

Having done their clinical studies, if they still say there is no proof, is that because there is no proof; or because they didn't want to find any?

Then again, could it be that they did thier tests on the wrong animals. If antibiotics had originally been tested on guinea pigs they wouldn't have passed the first hurdle.
_________________________
There never was nothing.

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#44718 - 08/13/12 06:17 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Bill S.]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
Having done their clinical studies, if they still say there is no proof, is that because there is no proof; or because they didn't want to find any?

Then again, could it be that they did thier tests on the wrong animals. If antibiotics had originally been tested on guinea pigs they wouldn't have passed the first hurdle.


so all the clinical test that they have done are worthless then?

it would be nice if the testing were carried out in a(n) honest fashion.

but , when someones / some companies reputation is on the line they usually do things in a(n) honest fashion, dont they.

if you dont think that they could be trusted to carry out
honest testing then why should we trust what they have already tested.

you almost make it sound like they would intentionally do testing that would deliver false results.

do you think they would?











_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44726 - 08/13/12 10:45 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Originally Posted By: Paul
you almost make it sound like they would intentionally do testing that would deliver false results.

Well, there are a lot of times when the companies that are being watched over by the FDA still present medicines that are not adequately tested, but they present evidence that they have been. If companies that are being watched still do that sort of thing I don't think I would trust any body who was doing their own unsupervised testing. After all that is why we have an FDA, to try to keep people from selling snake oil with the claims that it is good for you. Before the FDA there were thousands of companies selling health products that were ineffective, if not down right harmful. Some people who are selling alternative medicines are still doing it. Notice that I said some. I'm sure that some alternative medicine vendors are doing an honest job of trying to help people. The ones that aren't are the ones that worry me. And they are why I don't have a lot of faith in alternative medicine. I have no way of sorting the good from the bad.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

Top
#44730 - 08/14/12 01:50 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
I have the same reservations as Bill nothing would change infact it would get a whole lot worse and then you have the following


Originally Posted By: paul

Insurance companies !!!

insurance is mandatory , 1 or 2 prevented lawsuits would
pay for several studies and a research facility.


Do you really think that is ever going to get off the ground?

Many would view it as a new tax and many would say there are alot of people who couldn't afford to pay it etc.

Seriously do you think any government or public are going to allow or vote for this to happen?
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

Top
#44733 - 08/14/12 03:34 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
Do you really think that is ever going to get off the ground?

Many would view it as a new tax and many would say there are alot of people who couldn't afford to pay it etc.

Seriously do you think any government or public are going to allow or vote for this to happen?


why would anyone view it as a tax at all?

if insurance companies pay to do the studies / testing
and cures are found or alternate medicine is found to
replace several high dollar treatments and medicines then wouldnt the insurance companies profit from that lower cost?

big pharma is constantly being sued because people are always dying or become severely ill due to taking their barely tested new medicines.

if they are not barely tested then why do people die or get severely ill?

and cost is becomming a real problem , so much that people cant afford insurance.

I dont see why the insurance industry could not fund the testing without any one voting.

thorough testing would mean safer medicines , and would prevent lawsuits , and would lower insurance cost to doctors , hospitals , companies , people , etc...

life insurance companies could collect premiums longer before they have to pay the life insurance benefits.

100,000 people a year die in the U.S due to prescription drugs.

http://www.alternet.org/story/147318/100...panies_get_rich

98,000 people die a year in the U.S. due to bad medical practices.

http://www.sagamoreinstitute.org/ao/index/article/id/3004


medical bills are very high because the insurance is very high and that cost is simply passed on to the patient.

the reason the insurance keeps going up is because medicine keeps getting worse.

someone who makes a medical product for a dollar has to sell that product for a thousand dollars or more just because of the insurance he must carry to cover any damages his product might cause.





_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44734 - 08/14/12 04:03 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: paul

why would anyone view it as a tax at all?


Umm because you are paying for something you may never use or need. Besides taxes on various things, name any other situation in which that is true?


Originally Posted By: paul

if insurance companies pay to do the studies / testing
and cures are found or alternate medicine is found to
replace several high dollar treatments and medicines then wouldnt the insurance companies profit from that lower cost?


So why wouldn't the insurance companies choose little or no testing?

I mean lots of people dying, lots of people claiming. Your premiums are set on likelyhoods the insurance companies simply make profit on turnover.

You need to remember insurance companies are just as greedy and problematic as pharma I am not sure giving them this role is a great idea :-)


Originally Posted By: paul

big pharma is constantly being sued because people are always dying or become severely ill due to taking their barely tested new medicines.


I am not convinced it would be any less under your idea infact I would say it's going to be a hell of a lot more deaths.


Originally Posted By: paul

if they are not barely tested then why do people die or get severely ill?


Becuase someone stuffed up but thats the point they are held accountable.

You criticise the FDA for not telling drug companies what to do but if they did so they would be legally responsible. It is supposed to be that drug companies foillow any scientific leads on possible problems with drugs ... that is ther moral obligation imposed on them.

If the FDA setout testing then you can guarantee that drug companies would only do the prescribed testing which is the weakness of your idea. If people died because of something that the FDA didn't set as a test for the drug companies who does a person sue the FDA?

The FDA v Pharma interaction works the way it does because all the responsibility is put squarely on the drug companies.


Originally Posted By: paul

and cost is becomming a real problem , so much that people cant afford insurance.


I don't see it getting any cheaper under your idea infact I would argue the current system is very close to your idea

FDA = your concerned peoples group
AMA/Doctors board = you control group or board
Medical Indemity Insurance = Your insurance


I don't see you suggest anything radically different to what already exists and alright it may not work that well according to you.

TWO QUESTION FOR YOU:

1.) Why are so few alternative doctors and remedies meeting the current drug/doctor schema.

2.) If we created your version of the drug schema people and companies not complying can't practice or supply drugs I assume.


Edited by Orac (08/14/12 04:04 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

Top
#44736 - 08/14/12 04:26 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
your argument boils down to the FDA is a invalid agency.

Quote:
If the FDA setout testing then you can guarantee that drug companies would only do the prescribed testing which is the weakness of your idea. If people died because of something that the FDA didn't set as a test for the drug companies who does a person sue the FDA?


so we should save the tax payers the money they are wasting on funding the FDA.

why not , they have proven that they are an invalid agency by
requiring supplements and vitamins to have a warning label
when the death rate from taking vitamins and supplements is

ZERO

so we cant trust the FDA , the death rate shows that.
we cant trust the drug companies , the death rate shows that.
and if we cant trust the insurance companies then
do we just throw our hands up and surrender to them.

or do we strive for better testing of drugs by some better
process or method.











_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44738 - 08/14/12 04:36 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
It is as valid as your "concerned citizens group" what exactly thier role is somewhat interesting.

No you couldn't remove the FDA no more than you could remove your "concerned citizens group" but you can always argue and look at the role and function they are playing.

I am not a fan of the FDA I think they could do there role alot different and better but that doesn't mean I think they are obselete.

You still avoided answering why you think so few alternative remedies are making it under the FDA and why you think so many more would make it under your scheme.


Edited by Orac (08/14/12 04:37 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

Top
#44739 - 08/14/12 04:44 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
No you couldn't remove the FDA no more than you could remove your "concerned citizens group" but you can always argue and look at the role and function they are playing.


why?

what purpose do they serve?

are they only in place to warn people away from the dangers
of alternative medicine?

while they allow the murder of people by big pharma and
approve the murdering drugs.

100,000 people a year , murdered by big pharma.

its nothing less than murder because with proper testing those lives could have been saved.

its big money , and the faster they can deliver their money makers to the medical industry the quicker they can make the billions each year.

they probably think so what if some percentage of people die because of the barely tested medicines , the profit from the other percentage of people who dont die will pay the lawsuits.


Quote:
You still avoided answering why you think so few alternative remedies are making it under the FDA


taxes


_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44743 - 08/14/12 06:16 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: paul

why?

what purpose do they serve?


Safeguard and check role the same role you assigned your "concerned citizen group" or are you backing away from that now so we have anyone and anything goes with alternate medicine.


Originally Posted By: paul

are they only in place to warn people away from the dangers
of alternative medicine?


They are there to protect ANY medicine be it from traditional or alternative.

Show me any evidence that they are being selective please?


Originally Posted By: paul

while they allow the murder of people by big pharma and
approve the murdering drugs.

100,000 people a year , murdered by big pharma.

its nothing less than murder because with proper testing those lives could have been saved.


Your scheme would probably (as you call it) murder more consider how many cases of testicular cancer alone you could have been facing.

Whatever scheme you set up will "murder people" because it is inevitable administering ANYTHING.

There are countless recordings of water toxicity which is consuming too much water too fast so the body does not get a chance to balance the electrolytes.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-511475/Man-35-drank-death-consuming-water.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1770067/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16614865/ns/us_news-life/t/woman-dies-after-water-drinking-contest/


So even recommending people drink water can be fatal.


Originally Posted By: paul

its big money , and the faster they can deliver their money makers to the medical industry the quicker they can make the billions each year.


And do you think that the con men etc are going to leave the alternative market alone when it is worth billions of dollars and you make it even easier.

Come on Paul you aren't that naive.


Originally Posted By: paul

they probably think so what if some percentage of people die because of the barely tested medicines , the profit from the other percentage of people who dont die will pay the lawsuits.



And as I said your scheme the exact same mechanics will be at play and the same outcomes you haven't changed the drivers or the system.

Alternative medicine under your idea would look EXACTLY the same as it does currently only the players dresses change.

Quote:

taxes



Show me evidence of these taxes please?

I think you will find it is the cost of the testing that has stopped alternative remedies and again that will be no different under you scheme unless you are going to reduce standards and murder more people.


Edited by Orac (08/14/12 06:22 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

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#44748 - 08/14/12 03:10 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
Safeguard and check role the same role you assigned your "concerned citizen group" or are you backing away from that now so we have anyone and anything goes with alternate medicine.


it looks like the safeguard part of the role has failed.

100,000 people every year ! murdered by the big pharma safeguard.

its more like planned murder.

100,000 people every year should have given the industry enough data to use to prevent these murders.

its a systemic operation that does NOT safeguard these medicines , it allows the murder of 100,000 people every year.

when people begin to charge the industry with murder , having the person in charge arrested for murder , then those in charge might do a little more testing and we might get safe medicines.

this is what would happen if another company were to be murdering 100,000 people every year , they would be arrested and put in prison.

so do away with the worthless FDA and start over , because the FDA is only there to legalize the murder.

its still murder.

theres no such thing as legalized murder.
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44750 - 08/14/12 03:22 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
So even recommending people drink water can be fatal.


WOW , orac its not the water that is fatal, it is the dose.

Quote:
And do you think that the con men etc are going to leave the alternative market alone when it is worth billions of dollars and you make it even easier.


you havent even been paying attention have you?

I never said to leave it alone , Im saying to test it.

test the home remedies , if they are found to be dangerous
then take em off the shelf.

currently there is no such testing by anyone.

if you ask me your the one who is naive ,because you seem to
think that every thing is just fine.

you even defend the murders.

why is that?



_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#44751 - 08/14/12 03:26 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Mike Kremer]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Ok, just a few notes about the FDA, well sort of. The FDA (or its predecessor) actually started regulating food and drugs in 1906. That was when Congress passed the first comprehensive food and drug safety legislation. So I jumped back in time to 1902. Specifically I dug out my reproduction of a 1902 Sears Roebuck catalog and checked the medical pages. They start out with an explanation that their pharmacist has carefully studied and tested the medicines that they are selling. Here are a few of them.

Dr. Worden's Female Pills for all female diseases.

Dr. Hammond's Nerve and Brain Pills, Guaranteed the highest grade on the market. A boon for weak men.

Dr. Rose's French Arsenic Complexion Wafers.

Castroline - You need not have any other medicine in your house for your children.

Vin Vitae A new and perfect tonic and stimulant for the tired, weak and sick of all classes. A renewer of energy, a stimulant for the fatigues, a strengthener for the weak, an effective an agreeable food for the blood, brain and nerves.

White Ribbon Secret Liquor Cure - Makes them stop drinking forever.

I didn't copy out the exaggerated claims for most of them that say they will cure almost anything. It doesn't say what is in any of them. I suspect that the Vin Vitae is highly alcoholic, most tonics from the time were.

The Castroline for your children may have contained opium or laudanum.

I just think maybe the FDA does do some good for us.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

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#44752 - 08/14/12 03:26 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
See answering questions got you into trouble hey so now we are back to stupid statements and taunting ... funny socratus does the same rubbish.

The answer for you paul is pharma may indeed murder 100 000 people but your sugegstion would murder more.

Until you can come up with a suggestion that would murder less you look pretty silly suggesting people go for it.

I have no problem with alternative medicines and if they worked and they murdered less people I would support them.

THE FACT IS THEY DON'T AND SO YOUR WHOLE ARGUMENT DIES.

If you have an argument make it if you want to resort back to stupid taunting garbage our discussion is done.
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

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