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Joined: Jul 2006
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So, let me see if I understand this? Now, if there is a hole in the ozone layer than this proves the global warming theory and we are all going to die unless we turn over all of our nation's wealth to a bunch of corrupt UN officials. But, if there is no hole in the ozone layer, than this also proves the global warming theory and we are all going to die unless we turn over all our nation's wealth to a bunch of corrupt UN officials. God, they are absolutely shameless.

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An entire forum down below for talking about this stuff. What's shameless is that a bunch of FOX-parroting know-nothings spread exaggerations, misrepresentations, and outright lies before they even understand what's going on.

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Originally Posted By: Hillbilly
So, let me see if I understand this?
Now, if there is a hole in the ozone layer than this proves the global warming theory and... ...if there is no hole in the ozone layer, than this also proves the global warming theory....

What hyperbole! "....turn over all our nation's wealth to a bunch of corrupt UN officials?"
Hahahaha! You are a hoot, Hillbilly.
===

No wonder you're confused! What a can-o-worms, eh?

I recall the common myth: that the "ozone hole" also caused "global warming;" but I don't think that is why we wanted to fix the ozone hole, back in the day....
I don't know about the ozone hole as "proof" of anything one-way-or-another about climate change, but it is a funny story.

Years ago, when they discovered that too much UV radiation was bad for life, they decided to fix the ozone layer so humans could avoid more cancer by continuing to rely on the planet's natural protection from UV radiation.

It seems that the ozone hole caused a bit of extra cooling (not "warming" as relayed in the public mythology); but in those days nobody was worried about any extra warming that reversing the hole might "fix" back into the system; even if they had known about the cooling effect --or that fixing the ozone hole might cause the extra cooling effect to vanish-- or that the normal "greenhouse effect" would be restored by the return of normal levels of ozone.

Back then I was taught that the "ozone hole" and "climate change" were unrelated.
But that's the theory-- these days --that the ozone hole led to extra cooling. These days, there is also a theory that the warmer planet may cause the Antarctic to cool unnaturally, regardless of the ozone levels, so this whole can-o'zone-worms may be a moot point; although it does serve to show the power of science, and what science can allow us to speculate upon and eventually understand. smile
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So....
What's the point?
It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature, eh?

It is nice that scientific inquiry was finally able to determine a cause for the loss of ozone. While we didn't learn everything about ozone and climate back then, we learned enough about ozone and pollution to try fixing the loss of ozone (at that altitude) and begin repairing the planet's UV shield.

As we now learn more about ozone and climate, it seems that restoring the protective ozone layer might make the climate warmer! It is unfortunate --and perhaps a bit ironic-- that one man-made-effect, the ozone hole, caused some unnatural cooling which helped to mask another man-made-effect, the unnatural warming related to CO2.

Well ironic as that may be, we are now stuck with a planet that is increasingly at risk for more destabilizing heat-loading, which leads to climate change. In a similar way back in the 1970's, a large effort was undertaken to reduce our man-made "particulate" pollution --the particles of smoke, ash, soot, sulfates, and dust which caused such respiratory problems (and acid rain). Those particulates also helped to mask the warming effect of CO2, but when we cleaned them up in the 1970's & 80's, the warming effect was not being artificially counteracted by particulates and the warming became more noticeable.

So now we're more protected from respiratory problems, acid rain, and skin cancer; but fixing those problems has made the carbon dioxide problem more apparent, more immediate, and more critical (heating globally & ocean acidification).
Sorry about that! I think you should complain to whomever designed this complex planetary system. It is much too hard to change one little part, without unexpectedly changing something else here on Earth.

While it is exhalting to know that as a single species we can change things on a planetary scale, and then "fix" them with additional efforts; it is also humbling to know that we can so profoundly affect our species' sanctuary.

Try studying integrative science, or systems theory, to see what the limits of a complex, integrated system like the planet's life/carbon/climate system might be -- and to see what might happen as those limits are exceeded by competitive industrialization, burgeoning consumption, and profligacy in general. ...Or try getting almost 200 nation-states to figure that out.

~ wink


Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.

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