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#28961 - 12/28/08 06:22 AM Have you ever had thoughts of this universe...
unknownuniverse Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 2
I have had thoughts of this universe without life, everything without life. I think to myself, "What am I without life?". Nobody I have talked to really understands what I mean. So I have came here looking for a person that can relate to these thoughts. If you can, I would really appreciate a talk with you. Even if you can't relate, can you tell me if I am mentally crazy? However, please don't think about this topic to much, it will probably haunt you. It has been coming back to me for ages, and many of those times it has left me afraid, and sometimes even in tears.


Edited by unknownuniverse (12/28/08 06:27 AM)

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#28964 - 12/28/08 06:17 PM Re: Have you ever had thoughts of this universe... [Re: unknownuniverse]
esin Offline
Member

Registered: 06/04/05
Posts: 60
Loc: LI, NY
Unk wink Life is ephemeral, even that of our universe (as while light seems to be the speed limit wink if dark matter/energy is filling in the spaces between matter-devolved to a level at which gravitational 'attraction' does not rule- at a rate even faster then light speed, it seems likely that at some point the universe would 'prove' lifeless... The quintessential natural occurrence...

As regards our own mortality, whether we're on hold (life) until the next great adventure (post-life;) or this is it for our self awareness, it would seem likely that we're all to share the same end result... No tears, mate, try to be a little kinder, enjoy what you may and damn the rest ;)~

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#28970 - 12/30/08 01:14 AM Re: Have you ever had thoughts of this universe... [Re: ]
redewenur Offline
Megastar

Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
Hello unknownuniverse.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings. I can empathise. I've been there as, I imagine, have a great many others. My turn came when I was around twenty years of age (far too long ago!). I hesitate to presume that your experience is identical to mine - we are all unique, but we generally share more or less of the human propensity to wonder, and ask questions, about the profound enigma of life, the universe and everything. This can lead to a psychological/spiritual crisis, very often in our late teens to early twenties. You are far from crazy. You appear to be at a critical point in personal evolution. I'm told that the Chinese equivalent for the word 'crisis' means 'danger and opportunity'. The dangers are obvious, as you have indicated; but there is an opportunity to break through to new insights. For me, the insights came though yoga and meditation. For you, the way may be similar, or perhaps quite different.

I wish you all the very best.
_________________________
"Time is what prevents everything from happening at once" - John Wheeler

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#29318 - 01/31/09 07:43 PM Re: Have you ever had thoughts of this universe... [Re: unknownuniverse]
Yoser
Unregistered


I think about this time to time and wish I could see how it would be without life, water, air etc. But we are destroying the earth everyday and if we do not do something about it you vision will come true.

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#29321 - 01/31/09 10:40 PM Re: Have you ever had thoughts of this universe... [Re: ]
TheFallibleFiend Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1940
Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
Given favorable circumstances, potty-training a dog is very simple. Dogs naturally don't want to make a mess in the place they have to live - walk, sleep, eat. Humans, though, are much more advanced than dogs and so we have nothing to learn from them. We can crap in our own home, if we want - and nobody can stop us.

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#29338 - 02/03/09 01:56 PM Re: Have you ever had thoughts of this universe... [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
Anonymous
Unregistered


a very interesting site to explore pls see
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4614088/Allahs-Miracles-in-the-Quran-

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#29341 - 02/03/09 04:29 PM Re: Have you ever had thoughts of this universe... [Re: Anonymous]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
WARNING!!!!!!
Anon: Every time I try to open the site you posted my 'puter shuts down. Am I the only one who has this problem? Fortunately, I have a restore function.
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#29348 - 02/03/09 10:13 PM Re: Have you ever had thoughts of this universe... [Re: Revlgking]
Amaranth Rose II Offline

Superstar

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 962
Loc: Southeast Nebraska, USA
Rev, it must be your computer. I just clicked on it, and it opened to a translation of the Koran. A compendium of arguments against Darwinism and science in general. very anti-science. More of the same old, same old fantasies regarding the origin of the world and of the human race. You haven't missed much.
_________________________
If you don't care for reality, just wait a while; another will be along shortly. --A Rose


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#30458 - 04/22/09 12:42 PM Re: Have you ever had thoughts of this universe... [Re: Amaranth Rose II]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
I wonder if 'unknownuniverse' is still around. I wanted to ask him/her: What do we mean by 'life'? IMO, it comes in many forms.

BTW, is there any scientific evidence that life--in one form or another--is an eternal phenomenon? At 79, I am getting to that time of life when I am very interested. grin

As a minister, over the years (since 1950) I have buried--that is, I did the funerals--of quite a number of people around this age and younger--one was less than a day, very sad. The oldest was 99.

interestingly, my first funeral was in the summer of 1950. I was a student minister in Dundurn, Saskatchewan--a Canadian prairie province. Mr. Parmier was in his 80's. He told me, before he died, that as a teenager he rode with the Jesse James gang in Missouri and nearby states. "My father was friend of James and was shot riding away from a robbery: He was in his 90's. Later that night, he died in the saddle, and we buried him in the dark, on the prairie. I think it was somewhere in Iowa."

Just recently, I buried a close friend. She was 83. She died within a few days of taking ill.


BTW 2, how many took the following comment by Unknown as a plea for help? And why did we drop the topic?
Quote:
Even if you can't relate, can you tell me if I am mentally crazy? However, please don't think about this topic to much, it will probably haunt you. It has been coming back to me for ages, and many of those times it has left me afraid, and sometimes even in tears.


QUESTIONS ABOUT 'DEATH AND DYING'
================================
What is a scientifically and healthy attitude to 'death and dying'?
Who feels the need to talk, or write, about it?
Who would rather avoid it? Or just listen.

If there is an interest, I could set up a special thread, unless there is already one.
=====================
40 years ago: ON DEATH AND DYING--What the Dying Have to Teach Doctors, Nurses, Clergy, and Their Own Families
by Elisabeth Kübler Ross, M.D.
=============================
http://www.growthhouse.org/books/kubler1.htm
http://www.google.ca/search?q=on+death+and+dying+kubler+ross&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.mandriva:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

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#30464 - 04/22/09 04:01 PM Re: Have you ever had thoughts of this universe... [Re: Revlgking]
eccles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 149
Quote:
I have had thoughts of this universe without life,


IMO this is an oxymoron !
That "universe" DOES HAVE LIFE... YOURS! You observe it in your "mind's eye".
NO OBSERVER = NO OBSERVED.
ALL "THINGS" require a "THINGER".

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#30466 - 04/22/09 05:04 PM Re: Have you ever had thoughts of this universe... [Re: eccles]
eccles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 149
unknownuniverse,

BTW, I do understand your morbid fear. You are not going crazy.

There are at 3 ways to counteract this.

1. Understand the corollary of my post above, namely "I" cannot
exist seperate from its "observed world".

2. Ask yourself where "you" were during the major part of the night when not dreaming. Answer..."you" were not there..."you" were the equivalent of "dead" ! "Death" (the absence of consciousness) happens to you every night and doesn't bother you !

3. Read "The Death of Forever" by Darryl Reanney. It expands on these ideas and many others.


Edited by eccles (04/22/09 05:06 PM)

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#30474 - 04/22/09 10:20 PM Re: Have you ever had thoughts of this universe... [Re: eccles]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Eccles: Thanks for your input, and welcome!
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#30475 - 04/22/09 10:20 PM Re: Have you ever had thoughts of this universe... [Re: Revlgking]
Zephir Offline
Superstar

Registered: 07/01/08
Posts: 498
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
..is there any scientific evidence that life--in one form or another--is an eternal phenomenon?
By AWT rudiments of life and conscious behavior are contained within every particle . In environment, which enables the repetition of many temporal events (i.e. mutations) the space-time will condense into conscious life undeniably. In this way the life can never be completely destroyed, because it can be recreated/restored in every generation of Universe rather quickly from fundamental principles as an undeniable emergence of complexity. It even seems, conscious life is a geometric property of every sufficiently large piece of space-time, by the same way like galaxies and their black holes.

Nevertheless, a concept of cosmic inheritance exists (promoted mainly by Lee Smolin in his "Life of the Cosmos" book), where he collect evidences for idea, organic life has survived cosmological cycles and as such it's a product of more general evolution inside of many universes gradually.

Personally, I don't think, life requires survival of Big Bang for its creation and the concept of cosmic evolution is built in AWT at deeper level, then Mr. Smolin has considered. It can be rather understood as a certain observational perspective of inorganic matter evolution.

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#30497 - 04/26/09 10:17 AM Re: Have you ever had thoughts of this universe... [Re: Zephir]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 415
"What am I without life?".
#
If you answer to the question:
‘ What make me to be living person? ‘
when you have solution to your question.
============= . .


Edited by socratus (04/26/09 10:20 AM)

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#30505 - 04/27/09 12:46 AM Re: Have you ever had thoughts of this universe... [Re: socratus]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
socratus- ecccles gave an excellent answer in his replies. The universe exists for each individual (or organism) because each of us observes it. This can be used as an explanation of the existence of God- ie God is The Observer, and without his watching the universe will cease to be. Personally I am comfortable with the idea that the universe can exist without me, or any deity, watching its every move, but the 'watcher' theory is a neat and arguable idea!

Is there evidence of eternal life? No. We all know that when an animal dies they are dead. Humans are animals too.

Is there evidence that people believe that there is a life after death? Of course there is. Many people hold well-thought-out, sincere beliefs in the prospect of life after death, and many are comforted by it.

I agree Rev-- perhaps if 'unknown' is reading our posts he/she would take advice to find someone to talk to about this question as they sound troubled by it.




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#30514 - 04/27/09 11:47 AM Re: Have you ever had thoughts of this universe... [Re: Ellis]
eccles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 149
ellis,

I would not go as far as advocating "a deity" as an "ultimate observer" (as per Berkeley). For me "existence" presupposes "relationship" (exists for whom or what ?). When we talk about "self" that necessarily co-exists with that which we call "not-self". In other words "self" and "not-self" are co-extensive rather than "mutually exclusive" in a set theoretical sense.

IMO Duality may be pragmatic, but non-duality is intellectually the more coherent.

Quote:
If there is no other, there will be no I. If there is no I, there will be none to make distinctions.

Chuang-tsu, 4th Cent., B.C.


Edited by eccles (04/27/09 11:57 AM)

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#30515 - 04/27/09 12:44 PM Re: Have you ever had thoughts of this universe... [Re: eccles]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
For me, all that we experience--physically, mentally and spiritually--is what I think of as 'deity'. For short, I use the term,GØD, which is the One, over & in & through-ALL that is. Warren Farr and I discuss this, in detail, at http://wondercafe.ca
Feel free to join in.
See also:
http://www.unitheist.org Panentheism not pantheism http://www.flfcanada.com

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#30516 - 04/27/09 01:46 PM Re: Have you ever had thoughts of this universe... [Re: Revlgking]
Zephir Offline
Superstar

Registered: 07/01/08
Posts: 498
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
is what I think of as 'deity'
How such "deity" is defined? what we can deduce from such definition by sequence of logical steps?

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#30519 - 04/28/09 05:11 AM Re: Have you ever had thoughts of this universe... [Re: Zephir]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Let me put it this way: I have no evidence that there is a supernatural deity, or a god--one who is separate and apart from Nature as I perceive it.

But unless Nature is nothing more than an illusion, a dream state--and we are all victims of fraudulent senses, physically, mentally and spiritually--I have enough evidence to convince me that I am part of a dynamic and total process. I have a strong, mystical, sense that there is Being and Presence in the Now, which has practical value, for me, moment by moment. I call this dynamic and total process, GØD. Compare this with the 'religion' of Spinoza and Einstein.

Is this a subject that can be taught, like reading, writing and arithmetic?

No, it is more like an art. Yes, one can learn to be a better artist, especially from other gifted artists; but only if the gift is already present.

BTW, I feel the same way about scientists like Tesla and Einstein.




Edited by Revlgking (04/28/09 05:13 AM)
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#30520 - 04/28/09 06:44 AM Re: Have you ever had thoughts of this universe... [Re: Zephir]
Tutor Turtle Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Originally Posted By: Zephir
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
is what I think of as 'deity'
How such "deity" is defined? what we can deduce from such definition by sequence of logical steps?

You can deduce anything, from any kind of definition you want. The mind loves to live from its points of past reference, and it bases its logic on what it has been programmed with as reality.
A child sees the world one way, a young adult another way and an octogenarian another. An atheist looks for what it believes is real and sees and experiences that which is sought, and a spiritualist experiences and finds what it imagines is real.
Once one defines reality and sits in that definition it isn't likely he/she is open to see much else, unless persuaded by some kind of evidence or convincing argument that it is real.

Unfortunately we are taught to take the word of others on their authority regardless of whether it is their experience or ours.
Without the experience of something behind the words definitions are just words. If you have never seen a cow, no description will ever really prepare one for the event of the cow experience. The experience will not be anything like listening to words that describe the cow, any more than describing a meal will satisfy the taste buds or the empty stomach of a hungry man or woman.
The idea that mankind would find any satisfaction from a description that comes from someone who has no experience of what they are talking about, would say something about the maturity of mankind as a species. The next level of blind acceptance is to take the word of someone who has had an experience without ever seeking the experience themselves.
Mostly the complacency of autosuggestion, and the acceptance of any story is geared toward how one feels about something and not necessarily the direct experience of the object or idea of discussion itself. "Seek and ye shall find" is a description of the commitment to one pointed faith and the desire for more than a definition.

Perhaps the world is only ready for You Tube or Wikipedia as the authoritative reference to all things great, and all things of little consequence. It takes more than an open mind, it takes conviction and the ability to use the awareness to see beyond definitions to overcome limited ideas about something, even if it's a God.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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