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#28457 - 11/24/08 02:43 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
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Questions: What are labels?
When are they useful?
Not useful? Wrong?
What do they have in common with names?
If there are good intentions, what is wrong with using names and labels? When I go shopping I find them indispensable.


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#28458 - 11/24/08 04:23 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Questions: What are labels? When are they useful? Not useful? Wrong? What do they have in common with names?
Labels followed by judgment perpetuate illusions created as reaction in the outward movement of the mind, the ego.
They are useful to the ego in keeping the world divided and separate. To the ego a name and a label are synonymous. It is a way of separating the outer world from the inner Self/God.

In the inward movement of the mind all becomes one. In the outward movement of the mind all is separated into the many, duality, good and evil.

Labels are attached to systems of personal measure, which is how opinion is used to identify how much God, good, evil, worth is in an item of perception.

Those of low self esteem use labels to measure themselves against others by giving worth to the labels of measure so they can protect what little worth they attach to themselves. The greater measure in the labels one can attach to themselves the greater is the worth. Identification with moments in time, accomplishments attached to circumstance...the ego looks at itself and others in parts rather as One entity moved by One consciousness, and it names or labels these parts to reinforce ones own status and the status of those things that are separate from ones self/ego.
It is an unconscious act of the outward movement of the mind.


1 Cor 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#28462 - 11/24/08 06:00 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
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As I said, "If there are good intentions, what is wrong with using names and labels? When I go shopping I find them indispensable.

OK, I will presume that you have good intentions. To make it clear that you do I will ask: Do you?

But do you realize that, over and over again, what you write is filled with negative implications, and innuendos--a subtle kind of labeling? The following quote is packed full. For example, you say:
Quote:
Those of low self esteem use labels to measure themselves against others by giving worth to the labels of measure so they can protect what little worth they attach to themselves.
Sounds like the label one would apply to self-deprecating egotists. How do you think analytical scientists, especially those who happen to be agnostics or atheists, feel when they read this? Especially those of good moral character, who have no lack of healthy esteem and peace of mind. No wonder so many of them have become militant.

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#28463 - 11/24/08 06:02 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
As I said, "If there are good intentions, what is wrong with using names and labels? When I go shopping I find them indispensable.

OK, I will presume that you have good intentions. To make it clear that you do I will ask: Do you?

But do you realize that, over and over again, what you write is filled with negative implications, and innuendos--a subtle kind of labeling? The following quote is packed full. For example, you say:
Quote:
Those of low self esteem use labels to measure themselves against others by giving worth to the labels of measure so they can protect what little worth they attach to themselves.
Sounds like the label one would apply to self-deprecating egotists. How do you think analytical scientists, especially those who happen to be agnostics or atheists, feel when they read this? Especially those of good moral character, who have no lack of healthy esteem and peace of mind. No wonder so many of them have become militant.


What are good intentions of a Christed (non egoic) person and what are good intentions of the ego?
What is the essence of the Bodhisattva of Compassion?
If you can answer that you could possibly answer your own questions.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#28466 - 11/24/08 06:44 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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THE POWER OF INTENTION (The title of a book by Wayne Dyer)
======================
Because I believe it is very valuable to have, and to act on, the basis of good--Love-like--intentions, I will add to the above: If I say anything to you, or anyone, directly, or indirectly, which causes the feeling, even a twinge, of offense, I want the opportunity to apologize.

Just yesterday, I just happened to catch an interview on the radio (CFRB, Toronto) about the following Site: Intent.com I visited the section having to with science and spirituality.

http://www.intent.com/category/science-and-spirituality?f=4
People, like Deepak Chopra and his daughter, are involved.

It is about bringing together people of good intentions. But more than that: people who are willing to actually work together helping to make the world a better place for all.

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#28471 - 11/24/08 11:23 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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The following is an example of what, IMO, is an egoic response from TT:
Quote:
"If you can answer that you could possibly answer your own questions."
Thanks, I learned something. The real me is amused and blesses the response.
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#28473 - 11/25/08 04:29 AM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
The following is an example of what, IMO, is an egoic response from TT:
Quote:
"If you can answer that you could possibly answer your own questions."
Thanks, I learned something. The real me is amused and blesses the response.

Now all you need is to become the real you and you could answer the question...
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#28487 - 11/25/08 07:43 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking


Just yesterday, I just happened to catch an interview on the radio (CFRB, Toronto) about the following Site: Intent.com I visited the section having to with science and spirituality.

http://www.intent.com/category/science-and-spirituality?f=4
People, like Deepak Chopra and his daughter, are involved.





Tools of Personal Transformation: The Role of the Ego
The above link comes from the website you posted and Deepak Chopra's ongoing discussion of enlightenment and his goal of getting people to join him in taking a vow of non-violence,
(Which includes the topics "Ego and God").
Chopra was a Student of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, and although he doesn't speak of his meditation and the role it plays in observing the ego in the short video, it is somewhat informative.
I say "Somewhat" because he never really agreed with Maharishi on the subject of Self because he couldn't reach the level of experience that his teacher was leading him to. So Chopra left Maharishi to teach from his own personal experience rather than from that which Maharishi was pointing to.
Since he didn't attain a stabilized experience of Unity his experience of Self/self was limited to personality rather than universal mind.
He expresses his limitation by saying no one can tell what I am thinking or experiencing, Only I can. This is why he left Maharishi and his Teaching because he wouldn't imagine anyone could feel or experience where he was at and as a result was unable to accept comment/guidance to the effect of his growth and experience.

C'est la Vie..............
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#28488 - 11/25/08 09:03 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
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Talking about overcoming evil with good: What kind of good do we need to practice to overcome what is now being called cyber bullying?

CYBER BULLYING. WHAT IS IT? AND WHAT OUGHT WE TO DO ABOUT IT? It is a very serious and evil problem.
============================================================
Just this AM, there was a detailed report, on the CBC Radio 1, Toronto, on CYBER BULLYING. One of the experts interviewed was the editor of Wired Magazine.

A case now before the courts demonstrates, that cyber bullying can have tragic consequences (suicide of a teenager) especially when it happens to people lacking the maturity to deal with it.

Here is the story of the case:

http://www.wired.com/politics/onlinerights/news/2007/11/vigilante_justice
================================================================
With the above in mind, I will take you back to the late 1990's, when I first went on the net. Because of a connection I had with the media, I was asked to join a forum which was then called THE WEALTHY BOOMER.

I knew nothing about writing on the Web but I willingly looked forward to the challenge of learning. Without any equivocation whatsoever, at this point, I can say: Warts and all, it has been
a ball. But I had to be willing to go through

PSEUDO COMMUNITY, CHAOS, EMPTYING TO FIND AUTHENTIC COMMUNITY
--Scott Pecks levels to community creation
==========================================================
Hosted, with no advertising, by a financial writer, who is still with the National Post, it had a very good set up. Using the familiar acronym, WWW, it had three sections:

1. WEALTH--all about money and financial issues
2. WISDOM--all about philosophy,psychology religion
3. WELL BEING--all about physical, mental and spiritual health


At first, everything was nicey nicey--like in all pseudo-communities, including the church. However, in no time, despite the nice code of conduct, in every section the fur began to fly. Bloody chaos, led by two protagonists with the help of third, broke out in every section.

THE CREATION OF CHAOS
One of the two protagonists was a scientist, and an advocate of green technologies, and a militant atheist; the other was a financial adviser and, though open in some way, was a narrow, militant theist and a Bible thumper.

Both, loved to practice the art of ridicule. They especially ridiculed new ways of thinking politics, economics, philosophy, science and religion. Also, they loved to post in a shocking and in-your-face kind of way, in all sections. To say the least: They were not gentlemen.

What a few of us really found offensive was their frequent use of vile and vitriolic language aimed at posters who dared disagree with their own dogman about wealth, wisdom and well being.

For example, frequently they used words like F&@%*, $#!T & *#@?<, including libelous insults. Ironically, the Bible-believing financial adviser used this on agnostics, atheists, a friend I found who was a teacher of neuro linguistic programming (NLP), and me, but not on his fellow protagonist and atheist in the forum. This use of language caused many gentle souls not to stay too long. Sad.

Of course I was attacked, in the same way, any time I wrote about unitheism, pneumatology, my interest in creating a barter system using complementary community currency (CCC) and the like. Also, for being too inclusive.

TAKE NOTE Interestingly, a supportive and fellow poster--an expert in the nature and function of money--and I collaborated on a series of posts in which we actually predicted: If the powers that be do not reform and regulate the way our central banks--The USA Fed and the Bank of Canada--dole out fiat money, our whole financial system, including the market is in for a rude awakening. It will collapse ... everyone will be affected by it. My partner gave many details. He was ridiculed so much that he left and joined the break-away forum.

The host of WWW, a gentleman, involved in his own church, was too busy with the WEALTH section and his work at the NP to get too much involved with moderating the second W&W. As mentioned above, in my attempt to encourage DIALOGUE and the creation of community, I got a lot of help and support from a radio reporter and a teacher of neuro linguist programming. We learned a lot from each other. Both of used were ridiculed, regularly.

Of course, the diatribe--the negative and insulting cyber bullying continued. Things did calm down a bit when one of the ranters, the scientist and green advocate, died of a stroke.

THE RESULT OF EMPTYING--GETTING IT ALL OUT
==========================================
Eventually, in their search for peace, a group in the WEALTH section left and formed their own Site--no negative, or insulting, rants allowed. They even asked me to participate. I became happily busy elsewhere.

Around that time, the host of WWW, realizing that chaos had destroyed the WWW community, gave notice that he would take the Site off line. We were given time to copy and save anything we wished to save.

BEWARE THE EQUIVOCATORS
=======================
In all this keep in mind that, besides the outright ranters, there were, of course, those who wrote post after post of boorish, clumsy, undiplomatic and "opaque" verbiage, often filled with equivocations. They wrote as if they were masters of the Bible, the mind of others, and in direct touch with God.

Such give the impression: "Only we really understand the mind of God, "The Secrets" of the ages. We are here to give the answers, not to dialogue with you and answer your questions."

Even when I responded in general agreement--when, now and then (on the rare occasion), they did make a good comment--they never just said, "Thanks." Using their usual verbiage they responded as if to say: "Well! You have a long way to go, yet, before you rise above the ego, like we have, and are at one with God, like we are."

Like all cyber bullies, such posters wrote to find fault, not to help build authentic community. This and the negative ranting led to the fall of the Wealthy Boomer. Maybe the fall of THE WEALTHY BOOMER was deserved. It certainly presaged, was an omen, a premonition of the current financial crisis in which we now find ourselves. Yes, the WWW--a pseudo community--died, as did our pseudo economy, thank GOD.

One final point: Bullying, of any kind--whether it be in the home, the community, the nation, the world, or the Web, destroys community--the real source of all wealth. It is a destructive evil.

But if we persist, authentic community is there for the building--the only way to find it. And I am happy to report that since WWW I have found more than one. The good news is: We can overcome the evil of community destruction by the good action of community building.

Question: How many SAGG members ARE community builders?


Edited by Revlgking (11/25/08 09:43 PM)
Edit Reason: All my stuff needs editing, eh?

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#28490 - 11/25/08 10:26 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Talking about overcoming evil with good: What kind of good do we need to practice to overcome what is now being called cyber bullying?

Getting a grip on ego to overcome the labels, superstitions and delusions created by ego, that allow one to rage against the universe, prolonging the idea of being victims to ones own creation would be a great start.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking


IMO, in GØD, all things--even the apparently chaotic and evil--work together, ultimately, for Good (Paul).
IMO, most people do not believe in and act on a "god" based on the reality of the universe--physical, mental and spiritual--all that is.

They offer lip service to an idol which they create in their minds. And this is the problem. Most people find it really difficult to trust such an idolatrous concept of god so they go about living lives of despair, dominated by fear, uncertainty and doubt. This of course is the kind of idol which is an easy target for atheists to knock down. Without having to become an atheist, I gave up this god of the psyche, this egoic-kind of god, decades ago.

The whole drama you are rallying yourself around is just that, lip service you manage to give to reality and your opinion of God.

Let's look at some of these principles you posted earlier to gain a greater perspective of belief in victims and your drama concerning Cyber Bullying.
THE ELEVEN PRINCIPLES OF METAPSYCHIATRY

1. Thou shalt have no other interests before the good of God, which is spiritual blessedness.

One would have to find God in even the most distasteful of personal experiences, to understand how something good could possibly come of what the ego is identifying with.

Sometimes there aint no gain without a little bit of pain created from the loss of ignorance.


2. Take no thought for what should be or what should not be; seek ye first to know the good of God, which already is.

This would be tantamount to being able to move past the personal beliefs and opinions to take what one feels, blow it out of proportion and then make up dramatic stories to justify ones beliefs in being victimized by the outside. God can only be experienced from the inside out. Recognizing ones ego in the drama takes humility, and the ability to recognize that everything one experiences is of ones own creation.
Once one becomes one with God, one can create goodness in the experience of diversity rather than the psychodrama of fear and underlying beliefs in demons. The outside always reflects what one holds as truth inside.
You see what you are. In this case Rev. You choose to make real what you believe is real.
Ego knows only to improve God rather than to unite and work with God.


3. There is no interaction anywhere, there is only Omniaction everywhere.

Interesting statement is it not? There is NO interaction anywhere, only Omniaction.

Omniaction would necessarily mean that nothing happens that is not of Omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence.


4. Yes is good, but no is also good.

Obviously ones opinion doesn't have any force against its opposite if differing opinions have equal value. Somewhere in Time and Space Someone thinks Cyber Bullying is an example of free speech and expression. The voice of God. And it was good..

5. God helps those who let Him.

Can't be helped by God if God aint present.


6. If you know what, you know how.

Some people know what, but that what aint the what that knows how..


7. Nothing comes into experience uninvited.

That would include cyber bullying... There are no victims..


8. Problems are lessons designed for our edification.

In reality then, lessons are not problems, but gifts for our growth in consciousness.


9. Reality cannot be experienced or imagined; it can, however, be realized.

This is particularly revealing. Opinion is an illusion of ego, therefor it is not a clear perception of reality. The intellect cannot realize Truth it can only rationalize from emotional attachment to experience and how experience directly affects the emotional stability the ego tries to create and manage.


10. The understanding of what really is, abolishes all that seems to be.

Knowing God abolishes all ideas of what God is and isn't.


11. Do not show your pearls to unreceptive minds, for they will demean them.

Those who do not know God react to the outside as it bullies them. Then in delusion they turn God into something evil.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

IMO, most people do not believe in and act on a "god" based on the reality of the universe--physical, mental and spiritual--all that is.

No they don't, they pay more respect to all that isn't God because it is foremost in their experiences of reality.
Right Rev? wink
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#28497 - 11/26/08 04:38 AM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Question: How many SAGG members ARE community builders?

By communities do you mean castles of sand, beliefs and democratic morality?
Or do you mean God realized self aware, individuals who have not become dependent on others for their feelings of self worth, living the dream of unity with spirit and examples to all humanity?

I find that community is often defined within the boundaries of opinionated demographics, based on social beliefs and standards infused with double standards, or varying opinions and prejudice.
What one thinks is best another thinks is impertinent to ones own beliefs.
So communities are rallied around common perceptions of outward appearances, such as security or status, or visual appearance.
Being that opinion is tightly protected neighbors often will exchange verbal pleasantries and keep real feelings buried until they are in private.
With the evolution of Social mores in a constant state of flux, what is often emphasized is relative happiness even if it is a compromise to the true psychological and spiritual development of conscious awareness in the ability to realize God/Good in everything.

Jesus was a community builder and he labored to exemplify the True nature of love that destroys ignorance so that the many would not suffer at the hands of limitation, in personal delusions of opinion and belief and to realize the flow of creation in the Universe.

Matthew 10
34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law."

He came to build a community of spiritually infused human awareness rather than the temporary communities of opinion and changing belief.
He also knew the ego was stubborn and that the seeds he was planting would not change the world in the short time he spent on the Earth, visible and in body.
2000 years have passed and still humanity clings to illusions of fear and of separation from God in victim consciousness.


What you put your attention on grows.
If you seek to fix what you believe is wrong with the world, even with good intentions you become part of the problem.
The world cannot be healed from the level of thinking that makes it unhealthy.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#28503 - 11/26/08 07:15 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
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There is an interesting dialogue going on at the newly-designed WONDER CAFE--a discussion forum of the United Church of Canada:

http://www.wondercafe.ca/discussion/reli...#comment-297031
I just got started here this week.

Thanks for the dialogue, so far! And dialogue is the mode I prefer. Debates, especially about politics, the economy and religion, are usually zero-sum games. On the other hand, open dialogue--the humble and honest sharing of knowledge and ideas--can be a win/win game.

THE NATURE OF GOD
=================
With this is mind I don't think Jesus ever said: "I am God and you are not." In John 4:24, in his interesting dialogue with the Samaritan woman, and in response to her question about the whereabouts of God, says: "God is Spirit." One can imagine that he added that God is like the very air (the Greek for air, wind, breath is 'pneuma' ) we breathe. "God is like the very breath of life we all, including you Samaritans, breathe."

Yes, in John 10:30, he does say: "The Father and I are one." Interestingly, the Aramaic for father is 'abwoon'--literally meaning the Source of the breath of life, not unlike what 'pneuma' means. Obviously, Jesus is not asking us to think of God as a human-like father.

YOU ARE GODS
============
But what is truly amazing is the implication of verse 34, where he says: "It is written in your own Law that God said, "You are gods." ? Then he goes on to point to his own loving actions--orthopraxy?--as evidence of his oneness with God. Then, by implication, he invites all to be partners with him in the same kind of orthopraxy--loving acts. Orthodox beliefs have their value, but only when they inspire us to live out the principle that "God is love" (I John).

WE ARE ALL ONE IN THE ONENESS OF GOD
====================================
Clearly this is the same message of John 17: 20-26--the passage from which our church gets the words we have on our crest: "That all may be one." And, IMO, this has little or nothing to do with our being part of one world-wide organized and institution called The One True Church.
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#28509 - 11/26/08 11:21 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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More about overcoming evil with good
====================================
UNITHEISM is a theology--that is, a knowledge-based concept of GOD--which actually inspires me to act on the idea that, with GOD, all good things--physically, mentally and spiritually--are possible. If the word 'GOD' offends you, use one of your own invention. The bottom line is: what you would like life to be like. It is your choice.

My interest in UNITHEISM--which says that GOD is one with us and we are one with GOD--therefore, is not just academic. It is about exploring the practical values connected with this concept, which will help us, and our suffering world, find the joy-filled and "abundant life" of which Jesus, and others before and after him, spoke.

Using the acronym FREUDE--the German for joy--let me see If I can make myself clear.

By the way, Beethoven's Ode to Joy--part of his great Ninth Symphony, begins with the words, Freude, freude ... In my opinion, without GOD there is no joy. There is only fear, resistance, envy, uncertainty, depression and ego, the ultimate enemy of our peace of mind.
===================================
First the bad news about the enemy:

F stands for ego-based fears and feelings (Sad and happy). The un-observed ego is in a constant state of fear--fear of failure and that we are missing out on finding the fun of life.

R stands for ego-based resistance. Our pride tends to cause us to resist doing the things we need, and ought, to do for ourselves and others.

E stands for envy--coveting things we think we can't have unless with take them from others, including our family, friends, our community and the world. It is the root of all crime, including war, terrorism and the like.

U stands for the ego-based feeling of uncertainty. It arises out of the unobserved mind. It is the feeling of unease that we get when we feel unaware of what is truly real. When we reach a pure state of consciousness we will no longer feel unaware.

D stands for the ego-based feeling of despair, the loss of hope. It is a very destructive emotion, leading to the depths of depression--the common cold of mental diseases.

E stands for the ego, the enemy within--the ego-based mind, the thinker, the psyche--which is out to destroy our peace of mind.

Like fire, the ego can be a great servant, but a mean and destructive master, especially when we allow it to run our lives. Left to its own devices this man-made self, this unobserved mind, will stand between us and keep us separate from all that is good--GOD-like. Egotism is a dreadful mental disease. As already indicated, it is the mother of envy, the mother of all counter-productive conflicts--crimes of passion, wars, terrorism, financial crashes, you name it ...
==============================================================
NOW FOR THE GOOD NEWS.

Can you imagine the following?

By making the following simple choice--and that is all that it takes, a choice--one can take, "the road less traveled by" and like the poet said: "make all the difference".

Right now, I make the choice with you: "Beginning now, I choose to live in a state of conscious awareness of all my physical and mental--that is, somatic and psychosomatic--feelings.

I choose to connect with GOD--By the way, atheists, agnostics and others, choose your own word here--the Source of all the knowledge, wisdom, power and Love.

When I do this, my body and mind (soma and the psyche) will then become loving servants--no longer the enemy.
============================================


Edited by Revlgking (11/27/08 04:05 AM)

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#28510 - 11/26/08 11:54 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking


Can you imagine the following?

By making the following simple choice--and that is all that it takes, a choice--one can take, "the road less traveled by" and like the poet said: "make all the difference".

Right now, I make the choice with you: "Beginning now, I choose to live in a state of conscious awareness of all my physical and mental--that is, somatic and psychosomatic--feelings.

I choose to connect with GOD--By the way, atheists, agnostics and others, choose your own word here--the Source of all the knowledge, wisdom, power and Love.

When I do this, my body and mind (soma and the psyche) will then become loving servants--no longer the enemy.
============================================


This Self hypnotic approach to a goal is often used by many to achieve wealth, popularity, health and happiness.
Often there is an undercurrent of unconscious thought in belief which sabotages the positive affirmations.
Willing yourself to be ego-less from the ego when one hasn't the experience of being without ego seems similar to willing yourself to be a concert pianist without having ever played the piano doesn't it?

Taking a positive approach can be a great choice but often when one does this on their own and without some kind of reinforcement the opposing thoughts return the awareness to the place of conditioning and habit.
Many have spent a great amount of money with psychologists to try and unravel the many programs of the mind like removing layers of an onion.
A psychologist will tell you that medication and therapy according to their knowledge will be necessary to reveal alternatives to repetitive self defeating thought patterns. Simply willing yourself to be different will not remove the cause but it might address some of the symptoms.
What makes you believe this is going to work Rev.? It hasn't worked for you so far.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#28511 - 11/27/08 12:07 AM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Ellis Offline
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TT wrote:
"What makes you believe this is going to work Rev.? It hasn't worked for you so far."

That's a bit harsh TT. A very personal and rather nasty remark I think, not justified by Rev's post, which I presume it was addressing.

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#28512 - 11/27/08 01:24 AM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Ellis]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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It's a very serious question and pertinent.
Being direct is honest if not harsh to someones illusions and beliefs regarding affirmations and the psychology of unconscious thoughts and stress in the nervous system.

What makes one believe they can will away the ego when it has never worked before?
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#28515 - 11/27/08 03:52 AM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
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Ellis, thanks. To me you come across as one who knows how to put your ego to good service, while not allowing the ego of anyone else to push you around. Good for you!

No doubt you have noticed that TT's question is a rhetorical one. It is obviously not a question from a sincere seeker asking for information. When anyone ask me such a question I alway respond: the answer you want is contained within the question. Or I could also answer as follows
Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
...Now all you need is to become the real you and you could answer the question...
BTW, point out to me where I said: I will will away my ego?
BTW 2: I seek enlightenment for everyone, including TT.
http://www.google.ca/search?q=bodhisattva+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.mandriva:en-US:official&client=firefox-a


Edited by Revlgking (11/27/08 04:00 AM)
Edit Reason: Always a good idea!

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#28516 - 11/27/08 04:33 AM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Ellis, thanks. To me you come across as one who knows how to put your ego to good service, while not allowing the ego of anyone else to push you around. Good for you!

Of course it comes across that way. You have no objective experience of your ego, other than surface concepts of belief and opinion that are created from the ego and having read some books and articles. Reading doesn't create experience and without experience of ego mastery there is no wisdom.

It's just as unlikely to get apples from a pear tree as it is to free yourself from the separation of God in others by simply pasting a vision of oneness on top of all that you find discord in by imagining the concepts of ego from reading an article or two.


Originally Posted By: Revlgking


No doubt you have noticed that TT's question is a rhetorical one.

No doubt you imagined it was, but it was not rhetorical.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
BTW, point out to me where I said: I will will away my ego?

How about this quote:
Originally Posted By: Revlgking


E stands for the ego, the enemy within--the ego-based mind, the thinker, the psyche--which is out to destroy our peace of mind.

By making the following simple choice--and that is all that it takes, a choice--one can take, "the road less traveled by" and like the poet said: "make all the difference".

Right now, I make the choice with you: "Beginning now, I choose to live in a state of conscious awareness of all my physical and mental--that is, somatic and psychosomatic--feelings.

I choose to connect with GOD--By the way, atheists, agnostics and others, choose your own word here--the Source of all the knowledge, wisdom, power and Love.

When I do this, my body and mind (soma and the psyche) will then become loving servants--no longer the enemy.


Simply stating the idea of making the choice to turn ego from enemy to servant from the ego never has and never will happen when the thought and the choice to follow the thought is made from the ego. If it wasn't made from the ego/enemy the choice would be redundant.

So I should rephrase my statement to clarify what I meant by saying you are trying to will away your ego.
To be perfectly clear you are imagining you know the difference in ego being the enemy and the Servant from reading something, and that you could know how to turn the ego/enemy into the servent, by stating an affirmation. And imagining that imagining will make it so.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
BTW 2: I seek enlightenment for everyone, including TT.

you would necessarily have to become enlightened to know what it was that you wanted for everyone including me. Googling Bhodisattva in Wikipedia won't get you enlightenment or any understanding in the experience of Bhodisattva.

It's one thing to read about stuff, copy and paste what you have read and another to live what you speak of.
Words resonate from levels of understanding and reveal a state of mind.

What is self evident in your dialogue is that God, Ego and enlightenment are still concepts drawn from a tendency to store words with belief and opinion wrapped around them. Anybody can read and memorize stuff. What sets the master and the memory of concepts derived from opinion apart from each other is resonance with Truth absolute.
God is not an opinion. Opinion is ego. Enlightenment does not come from memory and opinion. When one is freed from opinion and attains perfect memory of Universal mind, that is something.

You're still following a 2000 year old habit Rev.
Remember the Pharisees....
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#28517 - 11/27/08 06:20 AM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
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Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Don't get discouraged, TT. And stop picking on the Pharisee you see in the mirror. Even judgement-filled people trapped their egos can serve ... at least as bad examples!

BTW, If you don't see the Joke, I will ask Kate to remove it, okay? laugh

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#28521 - 11/27/08 07:46 AM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Even judgement-filled people trapped in their egos can serve ... at least as bad examples!
That'd be the reflection of imagined Truth...

There is only God. wink
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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