Welcome to
Science a GoGo's
Discussion Forums
Please keep your postings on-topic or they will be moved to a galaxy far, far away.
Your use of this forum indicates your agreement to our terms of use.
So that we remain spam-free, please note that all posts by new users are moderated.


The Forums
General Science Talk        Not-Quite-Science        Climate Change Discussion        Physics Forum        Science Fiction

Who's Online
0 registered (), 203 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Posts
Is there anybody out there?
by paul
12/07/19 03:58 AM
Top Posters (30 Days)
True 1
paul 1
Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >
Topic Options
#28193 - 10/29/08 01:22 PM Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21,
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
"Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21,
====================================
Making no claim that I am an expert, the following is part of my attempt to understand and summarize the ideas of Eckhart Tolle and what he says about evil. Who are aware of his work?

My dictionary defines it as an Old English word for that which is morally bad; wrong, sinful and wicked. Synonyms are iniquitous, depraved, vicious, corrupt, harmful, pernicious, bad--the kind of harmful and painful things we too often do to others and to ourselves. It also includes what are called natural disasters and calamities.

In my opinion (IMO)--an opener which I often like to use--and without claiming that all of what I write is original with me: much that we experience as evil arises in the unconscious mind and in nature unconscious of itself. Evil becomes sin when we do it consciously and make no attempt to make amends and refuse to check our ego.

With the above in mind, let's dialogue about the nature of evil and what we can do about it.



Top
.
#28195 - 10/29/08 04:20 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Romans 12:21 is preceded by information (Romans 12:1 thru 12:20) regarding the nature of Christ consciousness and Union with God or the Experience of God in awareness within ones Self/self and everything one experiences. And it also covers the effects of Karma or cause and effect. (vengeance is mine sayeth the lord) Evil or wicked action being action of Ego creating repetitive lifetimes of reoccurring experiences based on the limited realization of reality until one discovers the Truth to end the cycle of ignorance.
It (enlightenment) is the very prerequisite to overcoming evil (EGO), and the only way to (As stated in 12:21) to be not of evil but to overcome evil with good.

That would be what Tolle means by being aware of the underlying current of reality, and evil
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





Top
#28197 - 10/29/08 05:06 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Sounds reasonable to me, TT.

Keep in mind that when I speak of holding out the possibility of anyone being a law-abiding and morally-good and humane person I am not calling for that person to strive to be, exclusively, a Christian and Bible-believing saint. IMO, Christianity is not the one and only way to truth. BTW, I say the same thing to all religions: Please, let us not exclude anyone willing to work for the highest good.

As we dialogue about what it means to be good, moral, ethical and law-abiding people I hope we can include ALL religions and all non-theists and secularists--anyone with the same goal in mind-- in on the discussion. Most atheists I have met appear to want the same kind of just and peaceful society that I do. This is why it my intention to be totally inclusive.



Edited by Revlgking (10/29/08 10:22 PM)

Top
#28217 - 11/02/08 06:05 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Revlgking]
KarmaMagnet Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 2
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
"Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21,
====================================
Making no claim that I am an expert, the following is part of my attempt to understand and summarize the ideas of Eckhart Tolle and what he says about evil. Who are aware of his work?

My dictionary defines it as an Old English word for that which is morally bad; wrong, sinful and wicked. Synonyms are iniquitous, depraved, vicious, corrupt, harmful, pernicious, bad--the kind of harmful and painful things we too often do to others and to ourselves. It also includes what are called natural disasters and calamities.

In my opinion (IMO)--an opener which I often like to use--and without claiming that all of what I write is original with me: much that we experience as evil arises in the unconscious mind and in nature unconscious of itself. Evil becomes sin when we do it consciously and make no attempt to make amends and refuse to check our ego.

With the above in mind, let's dialogue about the nature of evil and what we can do about it.




I think the dangerous thing about evil, is the notion that we [the human race] have become so accustomed to it, that many people have accepted that evil is inherent to our nature. In not challenging that notion, we choose to take no action and indirectly or directly, condone and excuse past present and future evil actions; personal or otherwise.

The notion that the nature of humans intrinsically evil is one I directly oppose, in fact I think the opposite is true; that our basic nature is intrinsically good.

Like many other facets of human nature, we must challenge first our own tendency to accept evil thoughts, words and deeds, and then if necessary, those of the people around us, & anyone else we come into contact with.

Other than that, I'm not sure "what we can do about it", but having a discussion about it is a good starting point.


Edited by KarmaMagnet (11/02/08 06:08 PM)

Top
#28219 - 11/02/08 06:54 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: KarmaMagnet]
Tutor Turtle Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Originally Posted By: KarmaMagnet


The notion that the nature of humans intrinsically evil is one I directly oppose, in fact I think the opposite is true; that our basic nature is intrinsically good.

If this is true then evil is a misnomer. If humanity is intrinsically good then good must also be in everything humanity does. One only need rise above the illusion of evil to see it.
Originally Posted By: KarmaMagnet

Like many other facets of human nature, we must challenge first our own tendency to accept evil thoughts, words and deeds, and then if necessary, those of the people around us, & anyone else we come into contact with.

That is the basis of enlightenment. Evil is an illusion of duality, where Good has a counterpart that is evil. When one rids themselves of the attachment to duality, vision of True reality reveals the nature of humanity and all that has a purpose in reflecting the nature of who we are.

"Sin" or "evil" (as described by Jesus, which was part and parcel to the Teachings of "The Christ" within humanity and the content of the New Testament of the Bible), is an illusion of perception rooted in the ego as a belief.
Once one situates the mind in the "Truth" of the "Self," evil/illusion/fear becomes transparent and without a foothold to distract the mind from its inherent nature.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





Top
#28220 - 11/02/08 07:08 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Tutor Turtle]
KarmaMagnet Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 2
I know, and agree; although I am not a Christian- not that that is relevant anyway, but like the O.P., I'm curious as to what, if anything we can "do about it".

Top
#28221 - 11/02/08 07:28 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: KarmaMagnet]
Tutor Turtle Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Originally Posted By: KarmaMagnet
I know, and agree; although I am not a Christian- not that that is relevant anyway, but like the O.P., I'm curious as to what, if anything we can "do about it".
Heal yourself and you heal the world.
Everyone has the Christ within, Christianity as it appears in religious boundaries is belief. Who we are is not limited by belief, but rather it is belief that limits who we are and constrains the unlimited.
All of what we see is a reflection of what we hold within ourselves as relative truth. Like a mirror, if it is not clear there is no clear reflection. If you wipe the mirror clear of belief what is seen is the underlying nature of the Self.

You don't clear the mirror by trying to alter the reflection, but by clearing the illusions that create the reflection of evil.

There is nothing to do, but to clear the mind of the illusions of evil in the first place, and let the light of True reality come forth from within.

What we do about "it" in other words is nothing. What we do is the cause of "it". What we "do not", to not create "it" is come from Christed consciousness.
(Jn 10:30 "I and my Father are one.")
It is the ego that does. It is the Christ or Higher Self that does not, and by its nature absorbs and exudes all that was, is and ever will be.

Jn 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

Jn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.


That is the nature of the Absolute. That is the nature of humanity as a reflection of the absolute.
Humanity as a reflection of ego is a misperception of the reflection of humanity and is evil in a nutshell.
We see what we want to see not necessarily what we can see.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





Top
#28225 - 11/04/08 11:27 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
Would it not be difficult to assume that good will overpower evil without that annoying thing that I find very impotant-- defining terms?

What is Good? What is Evil? In fact is there any such thing in an absolute as good or absolute evil? It is interesing to reflect always that 'one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter'. When I was little more than a baby my country was involved in a war and the order was given to firebomb Dresden. Thousands of people, including innocent little children, as I was then, died that night. The whole thing was seen as a reason for rejoicing, it was "right" and "good" ---- now, 60 years later, I have seen it described as "evil".

Because eventually we often seem to come to our senses I agree with KarmaMagnet when he states:

"The notion that the nature of humans intrinsically evil is one I directly oppose, in fact I think the opposite is true; that our basic nature is intrinsically good."

Quite honestly I don't know how you would keep going if you did not feel that this was true. However I do not think that it is good overcoming evil, I think that we would prefer to make a choice on the assumption that good will come from it. Unfortunately though that is the rationale for firebombing Dresden. Philosophically it is a circular debate!

How do you deal with this paradox TT? I suspect you will say that it is a reflection of the ego not the absolute. But would not the absolute have to include all the contradictions? Are they not part of the true reality?


Top
#28226 - 11/05/08 01:14 AM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Ellis]
redewenur Offline
Megastar

Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
Ellis: "Would it not be difficult to assume that good will overpower evil without that annoying thing that I find very important-- defining terms?"

I'll put these ideas to you for consideration:

What we humans recognise as good and evil are cosmic principles that are manifested through such sentient beings as are capable of the concept.

In a cosmos devoid of sentient beings, there would be nothing capable of holding those concepts. In that case the principles would remain unrealised.

Where there is a sentient being capable of such a concept, the concept is related to events that are either conducive or detrimental to the quality of its own existence and continued existence.

Such a being may be capable of inferring that what they recognise as good or evil is equally so to a similar sentient being - demonstrated by "doing unto others as you would have them do unto you".
_________________________
"Time is what prevents everything from happening at once" - John Wheeler

Top
#28227 - 11/05/08 02:07 AM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Ellis]
Tutor Turtle Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Originally Posted By: Ellis


How do you deal with this paradox TT? I suspect you will say that it is a reflection of the ego not the absolute. But would not the absolute have to include all the contradictions? Are they not part of the true reality?


Not as they appear to the individual and the attachment to values.
If you can remain objective enough to experience the multidimensional aspects of reality you can witness the possibility in action as being something or nothing at all.
It all depends on how invested you are in the activity.

If you have kids and have watched them get upset over something you thought wasn't worth getting upset over, you might have (from your objective point of detachment) offered your point of view so as to turn the childs mind toward something completely different than the anxiety, fear, or emotional investment he/she had in whatever was happening that drew their attention toward the emotional experience.
We've all experienced events in which a person, perhaps a friend or relative suffered as it seemed a very contrasting experience where they were extremely upset, and because we were not so invested in the experience only imagined how they were suffering in their emotional distress.
Logically we can come to the conclusion that since not everyone feels the same about something it is not the thing,(the experience or event) that creates the suffering but the personal association to it.
When you think about the bombing of Dresden and the suffering people of the city, for those that weren't old enough to have been alive during the time it is only a story in the history of a country that either you have familiarity with or not. A story in the History books.
But for the survivors of the bombing, those that had a direct experience it may be a strong imprint in the memory. Perhaps they still suffer with the memory, perhaps they have let it go and are no longer afflicted with the thought.

Perspective comes from the point of reference of the observer.
In expanded states of consciousness it is possible to witness not only the observer but the experience within ones self. There is the observer, the one experiencing and the object of perception.
We experience the experience of past as thought and the idea of the future as thought. What we do not always recognize in the present moment is the activity and experience is thought as well.
Especially if we are invested in it, or it is owned by the ego.

It's one thing to feel and another to become the feelings. By becoming the feelings we lose perspective or objectivity of the observer, the experiencer and the experienced.

By reacting to experience and becoming immersed in feelings we often do not see the entire experience for what it is and place unnecessary judgment upon it.
Good and bad then becomes relative to emotional attachment and without objectivity we do not always see the outcome or corresponding possibility of good that comes out of what we experience as bad. We only get lost in the judgment.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





Top
#28228 - 11/05/08 02:12 AM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: redewenur]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Quote:
What is Good? What is Evil?
Ellis asks.

Simple: IMO, evil is anything--small, medium or large--that causes physical, mental or spiritual hurt, or pain, to self and/or others.

If it is done, unconsciously, we need to be willing to look for the underlying cause and, consciously, choose to do something about it. If it is done, consciously, we need to repent and stop doing it. Otherwise it goes on and on and on, ad infinitum--a living hell.


Edited by Revlgking (11/05/08 02:13 AM)

Top
#28230 - 11/05/08 05:46 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Quote:
What is Good? What is Evil?
Ellis asks.

Simple: IMO, evil is anything--small, medium or large--that causes physical, mental or spiritual hurt, or pain, to self and/or others.


Correct. Evil is the result of Sin, or errant thinking.
However, there is nothing one can do to change the necessity of life to incorporate evil in the development of personal awareness as a contrast to perfection in all aspects of creation. It is part of free will. Sometimes one has to prick the finger to realize pain, so as to know the difference between pleasure and pain.
In contrast to differing states of conscious awareness, (being conscious and unconscious) realizing the many as one may take a different course of events and experiences. The ego and its definition of consciousness is relative to the body. Where as consciousness of the Soul is not restricted by anything physical.
So being conscious from the enlightened perspective, or being in the now is without the conditioning of the body and the multiplicity of the separation of consciousness into the idea of "we." There is only Now and that "NOW" is "ONE" above and beyond any personal opinion.

Opinions are only created from the ego, and are personal due to the separation of the "NOW" from the Soul/GOD Self.
It (ego and opinion) is what creates evil, sees evil and maintains evil.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





Top
#28231 - 11/06/08 02:12 AM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
TT wrote:

"When you think about the bombing of Dresden and the suffering people of the city, for those that weren't old enough to have been alive during the time it is only a story in the history of a country that either you have familiarity with or not. A story in the History books."

Here we will have to agree to disagree. I do not think that there should ever come a time when we can detach ourselves from events like the Dresden bombings to the extent that we can say it is only history. It is when we are able to do that that we will be likely to repeat the offence. We need to understand the dual nature of all acts. Nothing is purely good, nothing is purely evil. It depends on the way it is interpreted. Deliberate acts of cruelty can, and are, still defended as necessary for the greatest good.

TT-It's this duality that is the problem, and I personally don't feel that an 'enlightened perspective' of the problem comes within a bull's roar of suggesting a solution.



Edited by Ellis (11/06/08 02:16 AM)

Top
#28232 - 11/06/08 04:59 AM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Ellis]
Tutor Turtle Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Originally Posted By: Ellis
TT wrote:

"When you think about the bombing of Dresden and the suffering people of the city, for those that weren't old enough to have been alive during the time it is only a story in the history of a country that either you have familiarity with or not. A story in the History books."

Here we will have to agree to disagree. I do not think that there should ever come a time when we can detach ourselves from events like the Dresden bombings to the extent that we can say it is only history.

Whether you agree with the statement or not is a moot point. How you feel about it will not change the way others feel about it, nor will it ever dictate the way people will choose to feel about such things whether immersed in the actual experience, or hearing of it as it is passed on from generation to generation by the emotionally distressed individual or the unemotional context of a history book.
To this day, some believe the Holocaust of the Nazi extermination camps never really happened, and there is nothing that will convince them no matter how emotional or determined one might choose to be. So whether you agree or disagree that this is happening doesn't change the fact that it does.
It is unfortunate that these things often repeat themselves for the very reason that people do not understand the consequences of their own choices.
When we are unable to understand how deep choice resonates within the cause and effect of creation we are likely to repeat the offense until we awaken to reality.
Originally Posted By: Ellis

We need to understand the dual nature of all acts. Nothing is purely good, nothing is purely evil. It depends on the way it is interpreted. Deliberate acts of cruelty can, and are, still defended as necessary for the greatest good.

The ability to understand the complete nature of any experience or manifestation within creation requires the greatest objectivity. Any defense is going to be subject to what one hears or is able to hear.
Sometimes the energy to move forward is created by drawing the self backward to build a momentum to clear obstacles that create confusion. Like drawing an arrow backward before it can be propelled forward, our history is testimony to decisions made with consequence. Humanity is filled with differing levels of comprehension and as some graduate into greater awareness others are just coming to the classroom, and for those it may be necessary to whip out those lessons that create the greatest impetus to move forward.
It might be interesting to note the things that have been discovered within humanity in that last 2000 years. Sciences have made great advances toward the appreciation and understanding of the mechanics of the universe, but man still struggles with its place within it all.

Now man can destroy itself on a global scale. If it does, it may just recreate itself in another billion years or so. It wouldn't be the first time its happened on this planet, or any other inhabited by human life forms.
Whatever it takes for the evolving soul, the nature of the universe is always pliable enough to accommodate.
Originally Posted By: Ellis

TT-It's this duality that is the problem, and I personally don't feel that an 'enlightened perspective' of the problem comes within a bull's roar of suggesting a solution.


More often than not, from the "enlightened perspective" there is no problem, only opportunity.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





Top
#28233 - 11/06/08 02:47 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Quote:
We need to understand the dual nature of all acts. Nothing is purely good, nothing is purely evil.
Good point Ellis. This is probably true when one looks at individual acts.

However, what about our intentions? Can agape/Love--the sincere intention, or will, to do that which is best, even if we fail to do the perfect deed--ever be any degree of evil. In my opinion, no.

And what about misos/Hate--the intention to take revenge, get even, pay back? IMO, hate, in any degree, is devoid of any kind of redemptive value. No wonder that Jesus equated hate with murder.

Top
#28235 - 11/06/08 06:48 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Originally Posted By: Revlgking


However, what about our intentions? Can agape/Love--the sincere intention, or will, to do that which is best, even if we fail to do the perfect deed--ever be any degree of evil. In my opinion, no.

The most obvious answer is that if one is not immersed within the universal flow of God, but instead of ego and belief, Love is limited within the confines of ego's beliefs and best projections.

Here is an example.
Jesus and the Pharisees.
Jesus often claimed the Pharisees interpreted the words of Moses and scripture falsely, thereby trying to increase God and God's Love in everyone's awareness through personal belief rather than actual experience in universal awareness.
They (The Pharisees) also claimed this awareness could only be understood by certain people, and that these chosen few were only qualified to interpret God correctly for all. Their decree was that this privilege was God given thru special birth or family lineage and not given to everyone.

With so many people following their own ideas and going in different directions it has the obvious results of chaos. The masses became subservient to the self proclaimed authority that the Pharisees preached to the ignorant, and the ignorant withdrew even further into protection of their private beliefs for fear of losing themselves and God.

Jesus' Self proclaimed authority was from the immersion of Awareness in God, and it enlivened those he touched with inner knowledge and awareness of Truth that was more than relative belief. Jesus proclaimed the only thing that kept one from not knowing God was the ego, and that anyone who would rise above its limited boundaries could awaken to reality.

The Pharisees took from the people and gave nothing but rules which maintained Their authority over the people and the limitations of individuality.

Jesus Gave only love in Truth absolute and expanded Authority of the One universal Mind within everyone.

The subtlety of differences that is the authority of individual, and authority within individuality, is that One is owned, and the other unites all as ONE. One is personal and filled with opinion and the other is non personal and lives within the personal and always speaks in flow with the NOW.

History has presented us with religious leaders, who by their self decree of being in union with God, believed in having the best and most loving intentions for all of humanity and the best qualities to represent God, Good intention, and Love for all of humanity. These are/were reflections of individual opinion.

Obviously these leaders have either stood out for their actual immersion into selfless service and God, or passed in and amongst the personal opinions of ego and belief and drifted off into obscurity.(mostly the latter)
Even those who are known for having helped many, have suffered the consequence of personal opinion, greed and inappropriate actions when confronted with truth universal.(Jim Jones and David Koresh the most recent, The Cardinals and Archbishops during the crusades and Spanish inquisition in the memorable past.)

Today God has a bad rap, religion is a bad word and all because ego in its best intentions to do good has failed to convince anyone of anything but to remain independent in ones own beliefs and superstitions, suspicious of anything that might take away personal belief to establish awareness of Unity in Truth universal.

People love to love only if it does not threaten personal opinion and the ego.

Perpetuation of ignorance in the name of love and goodness is just as evil as deliberate subterfuge.
We just like to (from the ego) create degrees of separation so that we can covet our own personal reality with the idea that we are righteous in our ignorance of Universal Truth.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

And what about misos/Hate--the intention to take revenge, get even, pay back? IMO, hate, in any degree, is devoid of any kind of redemptive value. No wonder that Jesus equated hate with murder.

Jesus also saw Hate as Twisted Love, and often granted redemption thru forgiveness or thru greater awareness in the understanding of reality.
His compassion was born of omniscient wisdom and the intuition to discern whether mortal judgment came from innocent belief and misinterpretation of reality, or from greed, personal aggrandizement, and personal investment.
He spoke harshly to evil, and he also spoke lovingly to evil in the ego that was misdirected where the heart was wide open to repent and enliven truth over illusion of the ego.

His intuitive sense was finely tuned to the universal flow and was able to give what was needed to enhance growth in everyone, even if it was to initiate what seemed to be a move backwards, as was the case when he sent Judas out to manifest the choice to turn Jesus over to the authorities. He knew the Karmic repercussions it would create in Judas to make that choice, but he also knew he could not take that choice from Judas.

Evil is misunderstood, as is Love and God, from the ego.

Without the Union of the un-manifest/absolute and the manifest/God in the awareness, reality is only an opinion. All best intentions within the reality of personal opinion are subject to limitations of belief rather than the immersion into the unbounded NOW or Universal Consciousness.

Jesus was willing to sacrifice the material world (his own body) for the greater mind that was not limited by material beliefs and desires, which was evident when he surrendered himself to the crucifixion.
The ego sacrifices nothing of its physical needs for it believes the transitional physical reality to be greater than that which created it in the first place. Reason is, the ego does not have any familiarity with the Universal mind, the NOW or spirit.

So Good and evil are created of material values that are of the ego world, or those things which will perpetuate the senses needs in comfort and self recognition, and protection of the physical body.

Funnily enough it is this very idea that creates so much diverse conflict of interest and results in stress and deterioration of health and longevity in humans as a species and as a collective mind. With so many fragmented pieces created as parts of a whole and those pieces in constant change in belief, the ongoing attempt to arrange diversity into relative constructs that make sense to everyone, or build relative unity takes more energy than is used to support the whole from Spiritual Union.
We literally wear ourselves out trying to rebuild relative truth into believability.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





Top
#28237 - 11/06/08 11:41 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Quote:
Jesus also saw Hate as Twisted Love ...
Of course it is, TT!

As spiritual beings, we have this amazing power at our beck and call: In any set of circumstances, or situation, we have the power to choose to do spirit (true self)-based good, or mind (ego)-based evil.

It is that simple.

Anyone willing to try an experiment? Try the following: In any set of problematic circumstances do the following: Make your choice to follow your love-based spirit, or your self-centered ego. Then watch and take note of the results you get.


Edited by Revlgking (11/06/08 11:49 PM)

Top
#28238 - 11/07/08 12:00 AM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
In any set of problematic circumstances do the following: Make your choice to follow your love-based spirit, or your self-centered ego. Then watch and take note of the results you get.

How would one know the difference?
If it were that obvious wouldn't humanity automatically make the choice for love?
How does one determine from the ego, how to not be egoic?
If one knows the spirit and Love of God why would the spirit choose anything other than love and spirit?

Are you suggesting that everyone knows the difference and still lives between two poles or bounces from one to the other unconsciously? Or are you suggesting that by sheer determination one can rise above the ego and recognize the Spirit within?

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
The ego tends to confuse knowledge with wisdom--the moral, ethical and loving use of knowledge.

How could the ego become clear?
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
AND SPEAKING OF ONENESS:
In my opinion, HOW we perceive the NOW tells us WHO we are.

If the now is perceived from confusion of the ego, what would it tell us about ourselves if we recognize confusion as normal?

Originally Posted By: Revlgking


TT, I think that the big difference between you and me is this: I am not enlightened, yet--and perhaps still quite ignorant of many things. However, I know that I don't know.

If you know that you don't know how would you know "you know" the Spirit Self?
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





Top
#28239 - 11/07/08 04:00 AM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
It is that simple. The problem is: Too often, too many human beings fail to think before they act.


Edited by Revlgking (11/07/08 04:02 AM)

Top
#28240 - 11/07/08 04:29 AM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
It is that simple. The problem is: Too often, too many human beings fail to think before they act.

Thinking from not knowing doesn't create knowing...

A lot of thinking and planning went into the Holy wars of the Crusades and the Spanish inquisition.

The most obvious contrast for those who have knowledge and experience are people who talk the talk but do not walk the talk.

Your belief that you understand the NOW comes to mind. And that idea you have, actually comes from too much thinking.

I'll use this as a reference to your own belief about yourself, from your experience of the NOW.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Let's get this straight: I KNOW that I have and AM a strong ego. I have never made any claim that I have a "non egoic-inside track to anyone." Like Ellis, I always take an egoic point of view.

This would be the result of too much thinking and the inability to consciously make the choice to come from spirit, but to self measure your self on a personal scale of opinion.

This would be something to take note of, rather than to assume you can thru self determination and personal opinion, pull the NOW and spirit out of a collection of thoughts.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





Top
Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >



Newest Members
debbieevans, bkhj, jackk, Johnmattison, RacerGT
865 Registered Users
Sponsor
Facebook

We're on Facebook
Join Our Group

Science a GoGo's Home Page | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Contact Us
Features | News | Books | Physics | Space | Climate Change | Health | Technology | Natural World

Copyright © 1998 - 2016 Science a GoGo and its licensors. All rights reserved.