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#26059 - 05/14/08 06:39 PM UK Opens its UFO Files
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
I am sure all the UFO buffs have been waiting for this.
The UK Ministry of Defence finally opens its secret UFO files, all-be-it 14 months late, but I did say I would keep all informed when this info was stated back in March '07

A quick look, by the BBC here-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7398108.stm

But here are the actual National Archives, finally released yesterday....all actual photos, drawings, people, interviews etc all collected in one place below-

http://ufos.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Remember, this info has been collected and filed by the British Goverment. Dos that mean you accept it as true?.......well you never know, visual sightings are still occuring.


Edited by Mike Kremer (05/14/08 06:41 PM)
Edit Reason: correction
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"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



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#26064 - 05/14/08 09:07 PM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: Mike Kremer]
Rallem Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 194
Loc: South Royalton, Vermont
I'll be sure to check this out when I get home. Thanks for the update.

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#26069 - 05/15/08 03:55 AM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: Rallem]
Kate Offline

Senior Member

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 334
I had a quick look. Not sure there's much that's new in it. A bit more about the RAF Base "landing" but nothing that significant.

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#26097 - 05/17/08 07:33 AM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: Kate]
redewenur Offline
Megastar

Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
I once had a conversation with someone who claimed to have seen the proverbial little green men. They allegedly came from Mars. He was determined to return the visit, and intended to build his own space ship to do so. When asked how he would make it, he said he would use wood. When I pointed out that it would burn up, he replied that he would cover it in cooking foil. And he was in earnest. Draw your own conclusions on that one.

That's sad. More humorous is this from a British Government briefing to the House of Lords:

"Let me assure this House that Her Majesty's government has never been approached by people from outer space"

But on a more serious note -

There's an interesting forum thread elsewhere in which TheFallibleFiend includes this question:

"Do we have to see something to accept it with reasonable certainty as a fact - at least tentatively?"

The consensus so far is that in general we find ourselves tentatively accepting most trivial information as fact, although we all know of instances in which the answer is 'yes'. The case of UFOs is not in that 'general' category, and neither is it firmly in the 'yes' category. It raises the point that identifying what we see is not always straightforward (as any lawyer would agree). UFOs are often thought to be alien spacecraft, but an individual's assessment of the probabilities is largely dependent upon their level of knowledge in related fields. It's not surprising, then, to read comments such as this:

"I think that it is much more likely that the reports of flying saucers are the result of the known irrational characteristics of terrestrial intelligence rather than the unknown rational efforts of extraterrestrial intelligence." - Dr. Richard Feynman.

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#26157 - 05/23/08 05:00 AM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: redewenur]
odin1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 136
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Hello all,

Let me say to begin with, I believe there are extraterrestrials.
And, I believe we are being visited. I have seen things in the night sky that looked odd, and many I have explained. However, I can think of two incidents that what I saw was extraordinary and I can furnish no rational explanation.

In saying that I would also say this. Many of the sightings that are seen of a triangular shaped craft that seems to float quietly is probably a product of skunk works in area 51. It is called TR3B-type it in your browser and you can read about it.

It supposedly has a circular plasma filled accelerator ring called the Magnetic Field Disrupter which is mercury based and pressurized at 250,000 atmospheres at a temp of 150 degrees K, and accelerated to 50,000 rpm to create a super conductive plasma with the resulting gravity disruption. It disrupts or neutralizes the effects of gravity on mass within the proximity by 89%. this includes the occupants. It has 3 multimode thrusters mounted at each bottom corner of the triangular platform. It travels sub mach 9 at altitudes below 120,000 feet and above that -- as the article says -who knows.

I will not bore you with all the other details you can read it yourself if your interested, but I am saying this is what a lot of folks are seeing.

Where the technology came from - E.T. maybe or PHd

You decide.

odin1

_________________________
People will forgive you for anything -but being right !
odin1



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#26159 - 05/23/08 10:04 AM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: odin1]
redewenur Offline
Megastar

Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
TR3B? Magnetic Field Disruptor? Great stuff! Excellent sci-fi.

I've decided that Jean-Luc Picard and crew dropped by from the future to bestow this technology upon the United States, specifically, since the rest of the world would be too sceptical to listen smile

Actually, though, that's nothing. We had the TR3B in England way back in '62. It was well ahead of it's time, as sports cars go grin

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#26161 - 05/23/08 12:34 PM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: redewenur]
odin1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 136
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Come on redewenur,

You know the English model did not have the "beam me up scotty" option. Besides, Picard would never agree to English technology, Renault magnetic field disruptors would have been much more sensible to him.

odin1
_________________________
People will forgive you for anything -but being right !
odin1



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#26162 - 05/23/08 12:55 PM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: odin1]
redewenur Offline
Megastar

Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
How would you like a well placed photon torpedo? cool

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#26163 - 05/23/08 02:28 PM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: redewenur]
odin1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 136
Loc: North Carolina, USA
I will initialize my cloaking device and you will be helpless.
Then I Odin, will call up my valkaries to finish up the task.

odin1
_________________________
People will forgive you for anything -but being right !
odin1



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#26165 - 05/23/08 05:56 PM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: odin1]
odin1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 136
Loc: North Carolina, USA
I base my belief on ET's by the numbers. It is really hard for me to believe as big as our galaxy is that we are the only intelligent life. There are things that are seen in the sky that are unexplainable, I have seen myself and close up not 5 miles in the sky.

Some of what we see is no doubt new technology as mentions in the post I made previously. It makes sense to me that a class 0 civilization would be visited by a class 2 or 3 to observe. We would if we found a civilization on Mars and had the technology to go and come as we please. Why do you think we are there now?

I want to ask a question. Why do you think the governments of this earth would want to keep contact or proof of existance of EBE's from the public?

odin1
_________________________
People will forgive you for anything -but being right !
odin1



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#26172 - 05/24/08 10:22 AM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: odin1]
redewenur Offline
Megastar

Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
Odin1: "I base my belief on ET's by the numbers. It is really hard for me to believe as big as our galaxy is that we are the only intelligent life."

Some data:-

Number of stars in the Milky Way: maybe 400,000,000,000
Number of stars within 100 light-years: < 15,000
Number of stars within 16 light-years: 63

Looking at the numbers, it's not difficult (for me, at least) to imagine that there are other technological civilisations (TC) out there.

It's less easy to imagine that there's a TC on one of the 15,000 stars within 100 lt yrs. Statistically, for a single one of those to host a TC would require 27,000,000 TC stars in throughout the galaxy.

Coming closer to Earth the odds grow dimmer. For a TC to be around one of the 63 stars within 16 lt yrs, there should be more than 6,000,000,000 other TC stars in the galaxy. OK, maybe there are, but the odds don't look so good.

There are sure to be other factors to take into account, but I expect you get the drift. First there are the statistical probabilities, then there's the science. If we are sticking with science, nothing can travel through space faster than light. Even just a few years makes it a long trip for a flying visit!

So, it seems to me that what's really being implied is that some kind of hyperspace travel is being employed. I suppose that would rule UFOs out totally in the view of most scientists. However, supposing that some TCs have found loopholes in the science (or wormholes in the galaxy smile ), then they could presumably arrive in no time at all from anywhere at all, like genies out of bottles.

Whatever, I don't think it's impossible that an alien spacecraft has been spotted - just improbable.

As for the conspiracy theories, they seem, invariably, to contain strong elements of idiocy, so I try not to waste time on them. But your own question is reasonable:

Odin1: "Why do you think the governments of this earth would want to keep contact or proof of existence of EBE's from the public?"

I don't. I mean, I don't take it as a foregone conclusion - some might, but then some might not. What do you think?



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#26176 - 05/24/08 01:32 PM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: redewenur]
odin1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 136
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Hello redewenur,

It is a topic that interest me. Let's play 'what if" and assume that EBE's are known to exist and have been watched by the western worlds governments. And lets also suppose that artifacts have been spotted on the moon and Mars beyond a question of a doubt. Many people seem to think it would and is being suppessed. Do you think it would be religious reasons, or psycological reasons- or do you think the governments would fear they would lose control of the masses? And there is always the possiblity they would know something we don't concerning the nature of the visitors.

I think it would be mostly religious in nature. Although I believe most governments would rather be worshiped themselves (rather than the organized religion that has been around for centuries)they expect organized religion to maintain some order with the populus -- they would fear a total loss of control if ET would arrive and say something completely contrary to the beliefs of organized religions. Then all these different religions would further splinter in array against the establishment and other groups. Total anarchy I feel is what the western world governments would fear. How much could they suppress if ET came? Also, after billions of dollars are spent to keep the motherland safe and you find out ET can drop in any time he wants and could if so desired level a city at will and there is nothing the US, Uk, all of Europe and Russia can do about it. The conspiracy people would really give the goverment a fit then because they would blame everything that happened bad on ET, and the government because of a supposed deal made between themselves.

This is part of my opinion.
What say you?

odin1

_________________________
People will forgive you for anything -but being right !
odin1



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#26177 - 05/24/08 04:18 PM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: odin1]
redewenur Offline
Megastar

Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
Odin1: "Let's play 'what if' and assume that EBE's are known to exist and have been watched by the western world’s governments."

OK, I'll play, and provide a few ill-considered thoughts, but on the understanding that (disclaimer!) this is science fiction in which any resemblance to reality is purely coincidental.

You stipulate that a discovery has been made, suppression of all related information is taking place, and your question is: Why is the suppression taking place?

There are surely plenty of variables to play with, but I suppose it broadly depends upon:

- the characteristics of the artefact in question
- the characteristics of the political powers of the time
- the characteristics of the society being governed
- the chances of being able to successfully maintain suppression of the information
- the perceived balance of cost v benefit regarding disclosure v suppression

To create a scenario, you simply play with the variables. The reality would very complex, and all I could come up with would be pure speculation based upon presumed information about the variables.

Actually, it would be possible to write a decent novel on the strength of such doodlings. Speaking of which, have you read Carl Sagan's novel 'Contact'? In case you haven't, it touches on the social and political impact of the first message from ET. Excellent, I thought.

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#26179 - 05/24/08 05:51 PM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: redewenur]
odin1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 136
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Hello redewenur,

Absolutely, this is just fictional-maybe I'm on the wrong thread,
but it does raise an interesting question. Your answer I feel is absolutely right, there would be some variance. I have seen the movie "contact" I have not read the book, and I am sure the book would go into much more detail with what we are discussing.
I may put it on my list to read.

I have an open mind, like you, I need proof. As you stated the numbers are there. I have looked recently on the internet at anomalies on the moon and Mars, and you know you really don't know what you are looking at on the internet now. I have programs on my PC that I can add, delete, change, distort anything in a photograph. You can too I am sure. But, in saying that I try to keep the door cracked just a little bit for the possibilty. You know redewenur, after working all week, trying to make ends meet, watching the news and seeing all the bad things going on now in the world, war, famine, recession, it seems like a mini vacation to get away and look at what if's every now and then.

Thanks rendewenur
odin1
_________________________
People will forgive you for anything -but being right !
odin1



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#26180 - 05/24/08 07:47 PM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: odin1]
redewenur Offline
Megastar

Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
This thread is in the right pigeon hole, and it is, indeed, an interesting question.

The internet is a wierd and wonderful place isn't it! The best and the worst thing about this information highway is that it hosts the best and the worst of information! For every gem there seems to be a ton of garbage, and it's not always obvious which is which.

I know what you mean about mini-vacations. I'm having one of that kind right now, reading Isaac Asimov's Foundation series. Re-reading, I should say, as I read them twenty odd years ago, with the exception of two more volumes that have been published since. It was probably the thread about 'psychohistory' that triggered this!

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#26182 - 05/24/08 11:06 PM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: redewenur]
odin1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 136
Loc: North Carolina, USA
It is really amazing in how we could change as a society on a given subject( in this case a "supposed visit by ET") by the "variables" as you put it being shuffled around.

Do you suppose if we were being studied that this is something that would be looked at carefully?

I did'nt get on the psychohistory thread, sounds like I missed some good info and discussion. I need to be more observant.

best regards,
odin1
_________________________
People will forgive you for anything -but being right !
odin1



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#26196 - 05/25/08 06:59 AM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: odin1]
redewenur Offline
Megastar

Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
Odin1: "Do you suppose if we were being studied that this is something that would be looked at carefully?"

If I were a zoologist or anthropologist, I would try to ensure that I studied the subjects with minimal interference (preferably none at all) in order to not to introduce disturbing or corrupting influences. At best, such influences could result in a distorted and false picture of the pristine state. At worst, they could ultimately lead to the extinction of the studied species.

The Psychohistory is here: http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=25095#Post25095

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#26210 - 05/26/08 12:15 AM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: redewenur]
odin1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 136
Loc: North Carolina, USA
But, being the devil's advocate-do you think it is fair to assume that another species - evolved on another world would "think" or have the same values we would have? I ask this for the sake of another opinion. Let me add this, Carl Sagan said in reference to humans mixing genetically with ET. He said there was a better chance of mixing with a petunia because we don't know if ET even has DNA. I know I just compared apples with oranges but you understand where I'm going. Perhaps their views and belief system would be as alien as the species.

What say you?
odin1
_________________________
People will forgive you for anything -but being right !
odin1



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#26213 - 05/26/08 03:44 AM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: odin1]
Amaranth Rose II Offline

Superstar

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 962
Loc: Southeast Nebraska, USA
You make a good point, odin1, one that was made several times on Star Trek. We are highly arrogant to assume that all life must be centered on DNA. We are foolish to assume that we would find life like ourselves on other planets. No doubt that life form would have its own code of conduct, but that might not include allowing the human race to survive. Something to ponder, anyway. :-)
_________________________
If you don't care for reality, just wait a while; another will be along shortly. --A Rose


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#26214 - 05/26/08 04:05 AM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: odin1]
redewenur Offline
Megastar

Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
Yes, Rose, very true, but I think such assumptions regarding DNA and humanoid ETs are as likely to be due to naivete as to arrogance.

Odin1: "do you think it is fair to assume that another species - evolved on another world would "think" or have the same values we would have?"

Here's what I think:

In general, it's reasonable to suppose that their thinking and values would be very different. At a very basic level, though, I suspect that they could be quite the same. Whatever the aliens are, they would not have simply popped into existence; they would have been moulded by evolution. Evolution produces species that tend to perpetuate their own survival at all costs. Humans are equipped with attributes to achieve this: instinct, emotion and intelligence.

In aliens, just as in humans, instincts (autonomic processes) that dominated in earlier stages of evolution would have come to play a lesser role as intelligence grew.

Emotion, as we understand it, may be absent, but I think it likely that there would be some equivalent complex mechanisms serving to preserve the species, probably pre-dating an effective level of intelligence.

With the advent of intelligence comes the development of sophisticated behaviour and methods of enhancing the environment to achieve the survival goal. Information, therefore, becomes very important to survival and development, so it would be illogical to destroy a source of information unless failure to do so posed a sufficiently serious threat, or represented an overall disadvantage to the species.

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