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#23167 08/14/07 03:24 AM
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scpg02 Offline OP
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This could be interesting! I've always had my doubts about dark matter but I'm no scientist.

Dark Matter: All Wrong?

Larry O'Hanlon, Discovery News

Quote:
Aug. 3, 2007 — The mysterious dark matter that's been called on to make sense of the ways galaxies twirl through space may not exist, if an alternative theory is right.

The surprising way galaxies rotate — as if they are much larger and heavier than they appear to be — has long implied to astronomers and astrophysicists that there is more matter out there holding things together than we see.

That unseen and unseeable matter has fallen under the catch-all term "dark matter." These days, the most likely candidate for what makes up dark matter is some sort of weakly interacting particle that we've so far failed to detect.

But there is another radically different possibility: What if gravity itself doesn't work quite the way we think? Maybe at the outer edges of galaxies where the gravitational acceleration — the g — of a galaxy is extremely small, gravity tugs just a tad bit more.


http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2007/08/03/darkmatter_spa_print.html


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Modified Newtonian Dynamics (MOND) was proposed in 1981/1983/1989 (depends who you ask) by Mordehai Milgrom:

http://ca.geocities.com/mercy@rogers.com/

Experiments

"Is it possible to design an experiment that would confirm MOND predictions, or rule it out? Unfortunately, conditions for conducting this experiment can be found only outside the Solar system. However, the Pioneer and Voyager probes are currently traveling beyond Pluto and perhaps they have already reached this zone. To check that, let's calculate the radius of the gravitational sphere of influence of the Sun, inside which a probe undergoes an acceleration greater than a0.

We have seen above that the equation relating the acceleration a to the distance r from the Sun is

(GM)/r2=µ(a/a0)a

So, for a=a0, assuming µ(a/a0)=µ(1)=1, with G=6.67 10-8 and M (the mass of the Sun)=2 1033 g, we get r=3.5 1017 m. This is roughly a tenth of a parsec, four times the distance between Pioneer 10, the most remote probe, and the Sun. It is therefore doubtful that an experiment could be accurate enough to test the departure from Newton's second law. Perhaps µ(1) is less than 1, but it's very likely greater than 0.2. Consequently, experiments on MOND will have to wait for the next age of space exploration."

Observations

"In search for observations that would validate his theory, Milgrom noticed that a special class of objects, the low surface brightness galaxies (LSB) are of particular interest: the radius of a LSB is large compared to its mass, and thus almost all stars are within the flat part of the rotation curve. Also, other theories predict that the velocity at the edge depends on the average surface brightness in addition to the LSB mass. Finally, no data on the rotation curve of these galaxies was available at the time. Milgrom thus could make the prediction that LSBs would have a rotation curve essentially flat, and with a relation between the flat velocity and the mass of the LSB identical to that of brighter galaxies.

Since then, many such LSBs have been observed, and while some astronomers have claimed their data invalidated MOND, others said it confirmed the prediction. At the time of this writing, the debate is still hot, and scientists are waiting for more accurate observations."

Criticisms http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modified_Newtonian_dynamics

"An empirical criticism of MOND, released in August 2006, involves the Bullet cluster (Milgrom's comments[1]) , a system of two colliding galaxy clusters. In most instances where phenomena associated with either MOND or dark matter are present, they appear to flow from physical locations with similar centers of gravity. But, the dark matter-like effects in this colliding galactic cluster system appears to emanate from different points in space than the center of mass of the visible matter in the system, which is unusually easy to discern due to the high energy collisions of the gas in the vicinity of the colliding galactic clusters.[2]. MOND proponents admit that a purely baryonic MOND is not able to explain this observation. Therefore a "marriage" of MOND with ordinary hot neutrinos of 2eV has been proposed to save the hypothesis [3].

One more recent empirical finding which would be hard to reconcile with MOND (even the relativistic TeVeS version) is the possibility of large scale mapping of dark matter using gravitational lensing (Massey et al. 2007). It is not yet clear whether the effect - especially gravitational lensing by areas with no visible galaxy clusters - can be explained by any version of MOND, unless dark matter is included (which would go against the very reason MOND was proposed).

Another criticism of MOND is that it violates Occam's Razor, which states that the simplest explanation is usually correct."
_______

But that's not the end of the story - http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0701848

"MOND...in its original form it could not address gravitational lensing or cosmology. After reviewing some of the evidence in favor of MOND, I recollect the development of relativistic formulations for it to cope with the last deficiency" - Jacob D. Bekenstein


"Time is what prevents everything from happening at once" - John Wheeler
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scpg02 Offline OP
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Ok you guys really have to see this. Too cool. I posted this same thread on several different forums. This is one of the replies I got. It's a YouTube video relating to this thread subject. It'll be easier to just link to that reply then to try and copy it here.

Link


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I recall this being linked to before. There are several good demonstrations of this type on the web. There's nothing new under the sun, as they say.


If you don't care for reality, just wait a while; another will be along shortly. --A Rose

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Perhaps "dark matter", the unaccountable mass missing from our crude measurements, is merely the chance of the mass being somewhere, according to quantum theory.

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I've always thought of dark matter as a good explanation holder while stuff remains unexplained. I remember in the 1970s as a school child being explained that the galaxy was infinite, and then in the 1980/90s that the universe was infinite, and now that they can see several universes outside our own will they call the multiverse infinite? Now with mathematics if you have infinity and subtract infinity then you should have zero, but does that mean if you subtract our galaxy from the multiverse we would have zero? Of course not, because our galaxy now has known boundries and so does our own universe, but the word or idea of infinity did define these two heavenly entities. I think dark matter best explains the stuff about the universe we do not yet understrand, and as we do begin to understand these things, the term dark matter will become more refined or totally redefined.

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If the study of light is looked at from a saner point of view, it becomes obvious it does not, in fact, travel at the speed of light in a particle form! Like the straw through the potato trick, if any particle (the Photon) traveled that fast, we would not be able to cast shadows. Visioning light and/or energy either from something as powerful as the sun or as weak as your kitchen flashlight, we soon realize there are no moving particles. only transference of radiation in an ever decreasing strength, relative to the source. Hence, this mysterious space filling particle which is in all void spaces of matter, the photon, is your dark matter. Quite apparent, don't you think?


If the human mind can imagine it, it can be achieved!

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