Science a GoGo's Home Page Forums General Discussion General Science Discussion Forum Shape of the universe

Not long ago, a group of scientists decided to attempt to work out whether the universe was flat, or spherical, ie whether if you traveled in a straight line from earth would you go on untill you met an end (this includes the infinite universe argument- the universe has no end), or would you go on around in a circle untill you aventually reached earth again. they resolved that for the universe to come upon itself into a sphere, it would need more gravity than to make itself flat. What they found amazed them the known (and predicted) universe didnt have enough gravity to keep itself even flat. using our understanding at the time the universe shouldnt exist. that is how we discovered dark-matter, the stuff that makes up most of our universe. so at this time it is widely exepted that the universe is flat. that is accepted fact. however i have a diferent hypothisis. the idea of the "edge of the universe" reminded far to much of christopher columbus. so i worked to see if i could find a way in which using our currant level of understanding the universe could be spherical. and here it is. we as a race have been outsmarted and awe struck by nature before so though this hypothesis is far fetched i belive that it is possible. we always under-estimate nature. read it before you dismiss it.

I belive that the whole universe as we understand it is not the whole universe. it is MUCH larger. if we were to go out in a high speed space craft (think u.f.o. here) we would find that we are a part of a large cluster of galaxies. then there is emptyness for a long time (it would take a mathmatical genious with all the facts and data a long time to work out how far bettween the "clusters" [hold on i will explain them in a minuit] would need to be.) but there are other clusters. other groups of galaxies. the space bettween them is total dark matter. that is why the "clusters" dont crash into each other- the dark matter pushes them away from each other.that would acount for the gravity needed to make the universe spherical. one other thing. in the middle of theise clusters is an exploded star. a bit wike a black hole in the middle of galaxies only bigger. it is a galaxy on its own. no stars revolve around it. when it groes to large and "eats" everything around it it reaches out for more. but canot hold its own wait. it becomes unstable. it then keeps itself alive for a bit longer by pulling the whole cluster into itself. its wait then becomes to heavy and without an energy source - having devoured all of its cluster (this could take a long time. ours might have been going for thousands of years, or maybe its always devouring and spitting out the leftover gases, which form new planets-thus constantly going) it implodes on itself. the element gases from this (for elements canot be destroyed- only modified into different pattens) then float and re-form. when they reform the cluster is slowly rebourn. this rebirth is a big bang. the big bang wasnt a single event but is hapening occasionaly in different parts of the universe. thus the universe is older than we think.

I appologise for any spelling mistakes. i am only a 14 year old boy who pays to much attention in science and thinks to much than is good for him. however my spelling isnt good so sorry. this is a breif introduction to my theory. there is more. i put it here for it to be evaluated by anyone who wants to read or attempt to disprove it. if you have any questions then iether add me to your msm messanger or send me an e-mail. my address is pagandude89@hotmail.com. i will reply as soon as i can..

We are part of a cluster of galaxies.

Here is an explanation

The Milky Way (our galaxy) is part of the a local cluster known as the Virgo Supercluster.

Scientists predict that eventually the Milky Way will collide with the Andromeda Galaxy (which is also in our supercluster). Actually, it will be more like they will pass through each other because despite the billions of stars in each - not one star from Milky Way is expect to actually run into another star from Andromeda - or vice versa.

Actually it is more likely, given the fact that Andromeda is substantially larger than our Milky Way that our galaxy will be torn to pieces and Andromeda become a large Eliptical.

But then humans like warm milk and cookies so lets just keep it a secret.

That isn't what I was told by people who know more than I do and I haven't done the math or run any simulations. So I'll defer to your better informed judgement for the nonce.

However, since this is not due to happen for a billion or more years, we've got a lot of time to figure out the details and whether and how we'll make plans.

Dear 14 yrs old,
You are on the right track.
I will not give you my theory on Big Bang which is different but would like to boost up your confidence because there are many theories on the Big Bang event and they all seems to have a good chance of explaining the Big Bang...(including the one which says Big Bang was not a one time event)
Personally I am not comfortable implosion idea....

The classic Big Bang theory has been dead for years. Unfortunately the general public is generally several decades, or more, behind what physicists are thinking.

Pick up a copy of the latest, July, issue of Scientific American. There is a good piece on page 40 in an article titled "The Mysteries of Mass." It contains one of the best non-mathematical discussions of the universe's origins I've seen in a long time.

people are behind because they generaly choose not to think about anything. the world is getting stupider.

We are going to collide with the Andromeda Galaxy in about 3 billion years. Andromeda is 2,300,000 Light years in diameter. our milkey way is but 100,000,000. however most likely we will not actually touch due to the fact that neither of us are very dense. however if the black holes in the center of our galaxy come to close gravity could pull them together. the other stars in both galaxies would be rearanged to form a elliptical galaxy, with the two black holes ,held together by garavity, dancing around in space. over time the black holes may be pulled too close to each other and evern murge.

we are part of our local group. however we are headed towards the Virgo Supercluster, a group of Galaxies much bigger than our local group. there that giant supercluster will devour us.

We may not be dense ... but then neither is a proton. Collisions still happen ... a lot of them.
And once graviationally linked, it may take multiple encounters, but eventually we will be absorbed by our big sister.

if it wosant for gravity i wouldnt expect any collisions, but because arter the initaial "pass" ill call it, we will be pulled back together again multiple times untill our orbit is set a few collisions may happen. it is extreamly unlikely that we will hit by another star, although night could me made lighter by the new presence of a nearby star. thats just an example to show that many things may change.

There are theories which explain Universe in 4 dimension and then there are theories which explain Universe in 11 Dimension..
Also there are theories which believe in Quasi-Static State of Universe.....
They are all good candidates...
It takes courage to understand String Theory because it marks one of the greatest fundamental conceptual shift after Einteins explanation of Time.

Pagan : You had asked me a private question regarding my theory on Big Bang.
I will not like to shy away from being called a stupid because you are a kid.
According to me Our Universe was created by a giant collision between two Universes in a small dimension (I assume it is 11th Dimension).
All the intial Energy came from those Universe...
Further I also propose that the Universe feeds on other Universes by using strong Graivational force ...
I can easily go on explain almost everything..
But let me tell you frankly I am not incredibly gifted in Maths to understand the String Theory but I do have common sense and to me it seems that World is all about common sense.

truely it is. i didnt even know of the string Theorys till today. thanks, im going to go reasearch it now.

As i read recently in the great Science magazine Discover, the universe is a complex thing which transcends gender, time and place. however, i do agree that String Theory is very understandable to me, because i am gifted in maths, obviously, and the conceptual shift that the String Theory demonstrates is a very logical process of thought.we will pull together a number of times before we hit by another star, but it is likely that, possible evne in our lifteimes, we will be hit by giant red dwarfs! I am sorry to inform you that we ar all doomed.

You are clearly a genius. However, im not sure all of your thoughts make sense roddy my dear:
although we may well be doomed, HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT ABOUT GIANT RED DWARFS!!! it is ridiculous. we will not be attacked by giant red dwarfs as dwarfs are meant to be dwarfs and therefore SMALL. and short. also, dwarfs are not red.
they are yellow.

Oh good so we have someone who is gifted in Maths to understand the String Theory...
In my opinion logical shift has not been understood properly...From duality to no dimension existence to eternal defintion of time ...there are problems with the new solutions,...and with every set of solution comes a new logical shift ....
your logical shift depends upon your choice of explanation of the string theory...
Please enlighten us I will be very grateful to you...
Sincerely.

well yes, not to blow my own trumoet i am gifted in maths and i do understand the String theory. i think howeve, that u do not, what you are saying about no dimension existence is preposterous, and i think you need to read up on your science before coming to me to explain it, as i think the explanation i would give to you would be a little 'over your head' i am sorry. but if u give me your phone number i would be happy to tell you about it after u have read up on the String Theory.

well yes, not to blow my own trumoet i am gifted in maths and i do understand the String theory. i think howeve, that u do not, what you are saying about no dimension existence is preposterous, and i think you need to read up on your science before coming to me to explain it, as i think the explanation i would give to you would be a little 'over your head' i am sorry. but if u give me your phone number i would be happy to tell you about it after u have read up on the String Theory.

You seem to be closed to new ideas...
Those who believe in Strings can never afford to do this..
Btw I had a question ...
What is Dimension?

And also pls update me about the String concept I need to read before posting next message.

I'm fascinated by people claiming to understand "string theory", as though it was one thing, and yet are incapable of literate communication.

As long as you geniuses are so proud of your knowledge of "string theory" perhaps you would enlighten us as to which of the MANY string theories you believe most accurately reflects reality: And why.

I have to concede that you both have a point, there are many many string theories floating about oour little universe (pun)! however, i would divide them into 2 categories-
Are the strings open (with free ends) or closed (with ends joined together in a loop)?
Are the strings orientable (you can tell which direction you're traveling along the string) or unorientable (you can't tell which direction you're traveling along the string)?
what u believe is up to you!
do either of you have a private email address i could email u at?
sincerely rodster