Science a GoGo's Home Page Forums General Discussion Climate Change Forum ACTUAL Ocean Rises

Well I am sorry, but I have had enough of the general 'flimflam'
regarding the postings in "Significant Rise to Oceans" below.

Which is why I am now posting "Actual Ocean Rises" as a newer topic. Since I am disappointed in certain people, who insist that the Oceans rose significantly faster in the previous 50 years than today.
I hope that nobody assumes the implication that the ocean rises today are slowing.

I am also disappointed in those that do not seem to believe the mass of data that Daniel has supplied, to verify that the oceans are rising steadily today.
Remember all the RECENT data of Ocean rises, have been taken from technical sources like satellite and side Radar, or similar, one should remember that digital data does not go back 50 years.

Since the the oceans occupy 7/10's of the Earths surface. Parts of the sea bed are subject to small movements, up and down on occasions.

Which is why I would like to draw everybodys attention to the "Actual Ocean Rises" as measured and logged by real people all over the world, every month, for the last sixty years.
Nothing technical sixty years ago, ...just real humans, in most cases unknown to each other, taking thousands of manual sea height measurements from Sea Walls, Lighthouse walls, Concrete and Wooden sea Posts, Port walls and others.
Measurements which were originaly started by people interested in high-tide reading.

All of these real human readings have been logged and preserved.
Thats thousands of sea height readings from most every country with a sea border in the world.
Real human measurements from, hundreds of seaboard towns in
-India, China, Europe, Canada, Russia, Norway and so on.

Which is why I would like to direct you to those thousands of logged manual readings, which in most cases, are still being
taken to day, by real people from the same walls and posts that were used sixty, or more years ago.

Goto :-
http://www.pol.ac.uk/psmsl/psmsl_individual_stations.html

...and after finding your Country/Port of choice, click on the
SECOND Column (Pm) to see the minute sea rises that have been manually logged over the past sixty years.

To start you off:- MACAU, near Hong Kong. CHINA (609/001)

http://www.pol.ac.uk/psmsl/pubi/rlr.monthly.plots/609001.gif

...and one more, this goes back to 1875! - MUMBAI, INDIA. (500/041)

http://www.pol.ac.uk/psmsl/pubi/rlr.monthly.plots/500041.gif

Remember these are real manual readings taken by real people,
month after month for more than sixty years in a lot of cases.
People being human might be expected to miss a few readings from
time to time.
Hopefully this will back up what Daniel has been trying to tell us for some time now.

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"You will never find a real Human being - even in a mirror."

.....Mike Kremer.
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Interesting and I will reviewing them in more detail tomorrow.

But as a sailor there are a few things I know about the oceans and one is that the oceans are not flat. Something simply proven by looking at the difference in elevation between the western and eastern sides of the Panama Canal.

Thus this might be of interest:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level

I wonder to what extent people measuring coast high-tides do or do not reflect the values measured by satellites.

Mike,

Really interesting find.

But I looked at about 30 and couldn't see a pattern. Some go up - some go down - some just fluctuate with no significant movement one way of another.

What am I missing? How do you make sense of this many readings.

Is there some overall analysis, including data from all sea height measurements? I couldn't find it.

Blacknad.

Hi, Blacknad, how to make sense of the readings is the $64 question
Taking readings at random, shows no definate pattern of sea rise up or down.
However my preliminary findings, by taking readings from individual countrys, and continental area's, seem to show good trends.
Also I assume that those early dated readings would have been taken in inches or centimeters. How fine a measurement could one take consistently, doing such a boring job?
World war II interupted many of the European readings also Japanese readings.

So as a start...taking the Norwegian Peninsula, all the sea readings show a marked decrease in sea height.
ie- 040/*** 050/*** 080/*** Oslo, Stockholm, Ratan and Tallin.

Now, assume the the melting ice north of those areas is causing a minute sea floor rise. Making their yardstick measurements show a definate sea level drop?.
I have not gone around the virtual inland sea 'The Baltic' nor the Mediteranean later on (re large variable river flows into a virtual closed sea)
But coming south onto the European mainland of Holland and France...160/011 160/021 190.*** and 190/091 the trend is definately rising seas, assuming the sea floor is stable.
Coming South, to Portugal 210/*** Spain 200/*** =rising
Not the Mediteranean sea, my reason above.

South to West coast of Africa, shows very poor readings, pity.

Moving over to Japan is interesting, and seems dependant on which side of the Islands you are, but trend is rising.
As is the Pacific areas, especially the islands.
ie Pago Pago 745/001, Honolulu 760/031 and Midway isle 760/001.
Not looked at New Zealand or Australia.

Moving over to the East coast of Americas, I have had a qiuck look at 823/** Seattle and 822/*** Generally all, rising seas.
Alaska 821/*** Not looked since I believe snow/glacier melts would require more time than a quick look.

Thats my general idea at the moment is above. Prehaps someone might divide the land areas into the earths techtonic plates?
Either way, the majority of readings show a trend upwards.

Nearly forgot...British readings are difficult to interpolate, since the South East of Britain is sinking, while the North West is rising.
But glad you like the site, I am sure there is a lot more info to be teased from the rest of these records, in the other columns.

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"You will never find a real Human being - even in a mirror." .....Mike Kremer.
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Thanks Mike.

There must be someone somewhere who has used this data for a comprehensive study and taken into account all the things you should take into account (like some of the things you mention).

I'll scout around.

I'll chuck the following data into Excel and mess around with it.

http://www.pol.ac.uk/psmsl/datainfo/rlr.trends

Blacknad.

Hi Blacknad,
I would'nt put too much faith in those readings, If I were you.
They are interesting but I would consider them unreliable for scientific use
I was trolling around Scienceagogo's forum writings from a few years ago, and came up with this old item:-

http://www.scienceagogo.com/message_board/messages/4169.shtml

Mike Kremer.

Graph of Sea level Rise last Century.

http://www.grida.no/climate/vital/19.htm

Michael Kremer.

Old Rudimetary Tide Gauge Discovered
The discovery of 160 year old records in the archives of the Royal Society, London, has given scientists further evidence that Australian sea levels are rising.

Observations taken at Tasmania's Port Arthur convict settlement 160 years ago by an amateur meteorologist have been compared with data from a modern tide gauge.
In 1837, a rudimentary tide gauge was made by the amateur meteorologist, Thomas Lempriere and probably installed in the nearby Port Arthur settlement.

In 1841 Lempriere cut a benchmark, in the form of a broad arrow, on a vertical rock face on the Isle of the Dead, which was used as a cemetery for the Port Arthur complex.

The discovery of two full years of carefully recorded measurements (1841 and 1842) of average sea level was the start of a scientific quest through early European history in Tasmania.

"There is a rate of sea level rise of about 1mm a year, consistent with other Australian observations," says Dr David Pugh, from the UK's Southampton Oceanography Centre.

"This is an important result for the Southern Hemisphere, and especially for Australia, providing a benchmark against which Australian regional sea level can be measured in 10, 50 or 100 years time," says Dr Pugh.

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"You will never find a real Human being - even in a mirror." .....Mike Kremer.
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RUN!

Again your numbers are suspect.

Here's what the IPCC concludes: Table SPM-0
http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/docs/WG1AR4_SPM_PlenaryApproved.pdf

Anyone can offer an opinion. The vast majority of subject matter experts, however, are talking in very different numbers. For example the measured value for 1993-2003 is 0.31 ? 0.07 meters.
Substantially greater than the value quoted above.

You might also want to check this out:
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/gornitz_09/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming
http://uk.reuters.com/article/reutersEdge/idUKNOA32949720070313

It is easy to make fun of 1mm/year or 3mm per year when you don't understand the consequences. Perhaps an Anopheles mosquito will explain it to you though I hope not. But it sure easy to see where the phrase "Ugly American" came from. Could you demonstrate some concern for those peoples whose homes will be flooded during their lifetime if this continues?

Could you possibly get off your high horse, lighten up and smile once? Is humor lost on you completely?

I came to this forum looking for some new friends, some nice science articles. First thing I get attacked by the moderator for nothing. He insinuates that I'm lying about my gender and town. He holds me personally responsible for work that is not mine claiming my numbers are wrong when all I did was quote the article. I can't even joke with out getting beat up over it.

Too bad. I'm a fine woman to get to know. Your loss DA. You could have had a loyal and caring friend. We could have had coffee and chatted while you visited your mom. I was hoping things would settle down until you could meet me. Since you have demonstrated no desire to get to know me, I guess that's out. Email me if you change your mind.

Meanwhile, I'll tell my science friends not to bother with this forum. Not a friendly place.

scpg02 wrote:
"Is humor lost on you completely?"

Humor is not lost ... but I took what you wrote as sarcasm.

LOL, Hehe, yes I thought 1mm was playing into the hands of G.W Bush.
Had another look to see how many years back,the mark was discovered, after it was cut.

Horror,....looks like the oceans have gone down.!

So, what ever side of the fence you are on now, guess you could quote this mark?

Personally I think the land must have risen just a tad....but thats another ball game.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/467007.stm

PS. Stop the teeny-bopper in-fighting you two. Hurry up and meet
for a latte. Result, kill or cure.

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Relish Today, Coffee to Follow!
--------Mike Kremer-------

Mike writes:
"Result, kill or cure."

And hopefully we could distinguish between the two.