Originally Posted By: Bill S.
This would mean that the travelling twin would return physically younger than the stay-at-home twin. (You just can't keep 'em out).
I know the calculations establish that, but I can't shake off a sneaking suspicion that all might not be as calculated. I bet Paul can do better than that.

Well the traveling lump of stuff comes back a different age so why would you expect the biological thing to be different it is after all built out of stuff. You are implying that biological clocks are somehow disconnected from physical stuff .. an interesting concept smile

Using that so the time experienced by an innate object moving is different to biological aging, lots of fun to be had here !!!

Ok can I comment, you are back to this problem again you keep returning to the abstract notion of time in classical fairytales and transposing it into GR and QM and think it's valid to do so ... IT ISN'T !!!!!

So again I state, if you are working in GR or QM that sort of rubbish is wrong. Time is defined to other quantities in both frameworks and you can't use your classical definition of time in those frameworks. Classical time does not equal GR or QM time except in the head of layman. To stop the confusion can you use the term "proper time" for GR and QM for a while. Then if ever you try to discuss GR/QM and use "time" rather than "proper time" you and I know you have just made an error and mixed definitions.

That problem is not uncommon as I have said Temperature has the same problem. In classical physics temperature is a quantity, in QM it is a statistic made up of lots of different microstates. So temperature while somewhat loosely the same, you need care when trying to use the classical definition of temperature in the QM framework. The fact temperature isn't a pure quantity is why the thing is so hard to work with correctly in the classical framework and time is exactly the same.

What you are doing in trying to simplify, is mixing framework definitions, and I am railing against it because it is misleading.

From what I am reading you are now putting "Biological time" into another category as well so now we have 3 different types of time, which are all only loosely the same. I have no issues but you are going to confuse me if it isn't clear which version of time you are talking about.

So our twin paradox shows a difference in proper time, what it shows in classical time and biological time isn't clear to me.

Last edited by Orac; 05/31/16 07:12 PM.

I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.