Re: thanks for the bone...
Posted by asdf on Mar 29, 2002 at 02:04
Re: thanks for the bone... (DA Morgan)
You are incorrect. They have mutated into other viruses that are biologically distinct.
i am correct...so are you...at least in part...some viruses have mutated or varied into other virii...but they are still viruses and they will never be anything else...when you can produce virii that have changed into elephants or fish or dandelions...you can falsify my statement...until then, my statement stands and it has never been falsified
toy poodles, chihuahuas, great danes, st bernards, wolves, foxes, jackals, coyotes are also distinct in some sense or another within the canidae family (and i am intentionally mixing so-called genera with intraspecies variants)...but they all came from the same two original mutts (whatever they were)...the ones that were initially created and then again the two that came off the ark...that's my postulate
as an aside...it is interesting that at least some of those genera are interfertile...so much for a clear or even a working definition of species
no example of transphyletic evolution has EVER been established ...regardless of how you posture, evolution is nothing more than a postulate
But even if you were correct in the local sense you'd be wrong in the global. Viruses were first discovered in roughly 1892-1898 by Dimitrii Ivanovsky. So their very existence has only been known a very short amount of time. If it takes a virus 150 years to evolve into an elephant ... there would not be sufficient time for anyone to observe it even though we could clearly see evidence of it having happened in the past.
there is no clear or "clearly seen" evidence of any such thing
We haven't seen whales evolve from hippo-like creatures but any decent geneticist can establish that it happened.
you right...we haven't seen it...we haven't even seen much to suggest it other than some lovely "just so" stories...and until we do all you or anyone else making such a claim has is faith that it happened...there is no solid evidence to support this statement of faith
you can propose any order you like for the available fossil evidence...(and there is fossil evidence available, it just doesn't say what you are trying to make it say)...but you cannot demonstrate that hippo like or cow like creatures turned into whales
you wrong...no decent or any other kind of geneticist can "establish" any such thing...at least none has yet
...absence of evidence is not evidence of absence
you right...and that knife cuts both ways
this valid concept helps or hurts me and the creationary camp precisely as much as it does you and the evolutionary camp
but you right...there is an "absence of evidence" for your claim :-)
what evidence does exist is not the exclusive domain of the evolutionary camp...we all have the same evidence...we differ in the interpretation...and i suggest that the creationary interpretation of that evidence fits far better with reality than does the evolutionary interpretation
That something has not happened in the last 150 years does not mean it doesn't happen in 600 years, or 6000 years or 6 million years.
you right again...i'll be glad to wait as long as it takes for you or anyone else to produce an elephant from a virus
the good news is...we all gonna know the answer someday :-)
Too bad you got your education from a Christian Madrasa.
i hold five degrees and i am working on a sixth
two of the five are from secular universities...my present work is with a secular university that is ranked top ten in this part of the world...top five in biology...and first in molecular virology
i spend several hours a week in two labs (molecular genetics and molecular virology)
i am also thankful for the three degrees i got from three different christian schools
viruses are virii...that's all they have ever been and all they ever will be...if you can legitimately falsify that statement, then please, by all means, bring all you've got
until then, my statement stands...awaiting falsification