saving sick babies

Posted by anyman on Feb 28, 2004 at 04:58

Re: Feo2: The Evolution of Saving Sick Foetus's (Feo Amante)

not sure that i favor going to extraordinary lengths to save infants, born or unborn

it is certainly inconsistent for those professing the evolutionary philosophy

on the other hand, while i might not always agree (might being the operative word here) with those that choose to go to extraordinary measures to keep someone with serious congenital defects alive, i will generally respect their decision and hope that they have given considerable thought to all that they should have and that they will have their own adequate resources to deal with the situation

Genetic deformities give us new insights into the human code just as much as "normal" ones do. Seeing something go wrong, and discovering why it goes wrong, is every bit as important as seeing something go right.

your specifics may be suspect but your larger point is correct...

learning what is wrong or false or nonsense (in any area of interest and the pursuit of knowledge) is generally preferable to continuing in ignorance

knowledge of what is wrong or false or nonsense is no less knowledge than knowing what is right; it can in fact give us a heightened understanding of what is right offering a kind of reverse or inside -out view leading to verification, affirmation, and confirmation of what is right or true

The universe is arbitrary and chaotic.

their are some chaotic aspects to the universe as one might expect from something in a state of decay but the big picture is one of profound precision and order, and puts us at or near the center (yes, it has a center)...if this were not the case, we would not be able to see or recognize these cosmological design artifacts

We don't have to be. It gives something to us, as a people, to assist others who aren't as able bodied.

you right

this too is a difficulty of those subscribing to the evolutionary philosophy to explain...the extant attempts in the evolutionary literature are inadequate, albeit imaginative :-)

Dwarves do marry and produce offspring.

you right...there are even some women (perhaps men too, but I don't know them) that have a preference for dwarves

Cleft palates have been around far longer than agent orange, etc. "Evil corporations" are not responsible for the random nature of mutation. That's just a faith-based religion.

you right again...though i would qualify your final comment to read " blind faith-based religion"

on the other hand, agent orange among other things that we have introduced to the environment (including our own internal physiological environment via chemical pharmaceuticals, etc...NO, i did not say that they are all bad) may well lead to an increase in such deformities

That doesn't mean evil corporations don't exist.

you right again...

and an interesting choice of words, eh...

"evil corporations"

whence came evil, even the concept of would one describe evil in naturalistic scientific terms...and aside from the science of theology :-)

People with genetic deformities give us the opportunity - if we are willing to take it and some of us are - to discover our faulty switches and find the means to correct them. By doing so, it is my hope - and based on pretty good evidence - that we will also find the means to genetically improve ourselves.

that would be a nice reversal...

especially since the human genome is presently going in the opposite direction of that predicted by the evolutionary paradigm

our mutational load is ever increasing, the number of diseases and deformities is constantly increasing

another HUGE problem for those that cotton to the evolutionary view of things

the ONLY reason that the average life-span has increased, in recent times, and only in the more developed countries, is our increased technological advancements, which are sometimes well designed and sometimes not so well designed, and all of which are the result of intelligent mind, rather than any form of darwinian evolution, neo or otherwise :-)

which brings us very nicely to your next comment...

We can create our next stage of evolution.

icwl (i'm choking with laughter)!

evolution (the type that is generally disputed on this board) holds as one of its major tenets that evolution is UNDIRECTED, WITHOUT PURPOSE (other than to reproduce more genes), ACCIDENTAL (and as mr dawkins would have us believe, "with a little bit of LUCK" :-), and ABSENT OF INTELLIGENT CAUSE

what you are describing is the opposite, diametrically opposed in every instance...what you are telling us is that evolution would then be DIRECTED (both in the sense of moving in a specific direction and having a director[s]), PURPOSED, INTENTIONAL, and being the result of none other than INTELLIGENT CAUSE

in other words, what you are describing would not be "evolution" (in that sense of the word...and please don't parrot the "evolution is nothing more than change over time" nonsense; you guys slip back forth between different definitions or senses of this word with as much facility as a snake slithering through the grass, often not even realizing it yourselves and certainly most students and readers don't recognize it) at all; it would however be...INTELLIGENT DESIGN :-)

There are inherent dangers in that, but not as much danger as submitting to the "natural order" of an indifferent universe.

you sho do be right...

however, we agree on this point for different reasons

apparently, at least at some level, you recognize, perhaps even unconsciously, that "nature" alone is inadequate to produce much of consequence...left to its own devices

aside from all of the unobserved assumptions we have made about the past...what we observe in the present is a tendency toward disorder (unless maintenance is provided, which brings us back to intelligent cause...but given the present nature of things, even maintenance only slows down the inexorable ubiquitous decay that all around us prevails)

Natural order is neutral on the subject of intelligence and compassion. To embrace the natural order of things is to level our own intelligence and compassion with neutrality.

right again...and again for different reasons

as such, nature or natural order alone is an inadequate cause for intelligence and compassion, which makes, or ought to make, one wonder whence these things came as well

why does intelligence exist, why does compassion exist

bacteria are still the most successful life form in terms of the darwinian, evolutionary concept of reproduction, survival of the fittest

why would they have ever evolved into so many less successful organisms

2 cents paid.

get your money back

you got cheated

you a couple of cents...for the value offered

you wasted space, you wasted bandwidth, you wasted time (yours and ours :-)

the good news is...we all gonna know all the answers to all the important questions someday

some of us know some of the answers to some of the questions today...but we may have to wait awhile for absolute verification

ah well, they say that patience is a virtue, eh :-)

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