Re: "this proves that the laws of thermodynamics are wrong."


Posted by no_thermo_law_paul on Sep 23, 2003 at 09:18
(65.144.156.109)

Re: "this proves that the laws of thermodynamics are wrong." (A Lurker)

assume you are very young. You still don't get it.

answer:
no Im not , and probably much older than yourself and also much wiser.

There is no difference between your 1000 mile pipe and a tank of water. Your tank of water is just narrow and very long. To make a 100lb container float in a tank, you obviously need to fill the tank (or as you say "lift the water to the elbow") with enough water to make the container float. Once it floats, it floates GREAT, but it WILL NOT MOVE.

answer:
the pipe can be filled completely and the containers can
be bouyant just like a submarine.

The water in the tank is not in motion.

answer:
if I am taking 100lbs of water (out) at one end and putting 100 lbs ow water (in) at the other end , then the water will be in motion , exactly like a stream.


In the tank or in a long pipe, the water level has been raised (and again, go count how many 100lb's of water you need to lift to your "elbow of the pipe" to fill your tank/pipe of a 1000 miles) just enough to make the container float.

we never count all the energy that is required to suck oil from the ground , transport it , refine it , distribute it , put it in our gas tanks , etc....
nor do we count the energy and effort required to build an automobile when we are determining the output energy or power from an automobile now do we.
so you can consider filling the pipe with water as part of the construction of the overall system and is not to be considered when determining the energy or power that can be achieved from the system once the system is built.


And I repeat, at this time, when the container floats, the water is not in movement. There is no stream (you said the pipe was flat on the ground).

answer:
I already answered that.

And what is this nonsense about a circular pipe? The water comes back to you.

answer:
suppose the pipe not in a circle , just two pipes each pipe
1000 miles long.
the two pipes lying side by side.
each pipe has an elbow at each end facing upwards.
and each pipe if filled completely with water to the top of the elbows.
if I am standing at one end of the set of 1000 mile long pipes and someone else is standing at the other end and I take a bucket full of water out of one of the pipes and the other person takes a bucket of water out of the other pipe and we each put our bucket into the end that we didnt get the water from then this will cause a flow of water.

the faster we do this the faster the flow that is made.
now if there is a 100 lb container every foot in lenght
from end to end , the friction between the water and the
5,280,000 100 lb containers in each pipe will move.
thats 528,000,000 lbs moving in each direction.
the energy required to move the 528,000,000 lbs
is only the amount of energy to move two buckets of water
per second the distance from one pipe end to the other pipes end.

believe it or not.

Please. It does not matter what the shape of the tank(pipe) is, you fill it with water, that's it. If you want anything to move in that tank/pipe, you must apply some force to the container or make the water flow.

answer: true

Forget about your thoughts about thermo dynamics for now.That's far above your level.

answer: not hardly thermodynamics is far below my level.

Pay attention in class and learn how water flows in general.

answer:
you could learn plenty from me.
why would I want to sit it a class room that teaches
ancient concepts.

If you think the math concerning water flow is wrong - how come water comes out of the faucet?

answer: because there is a difference in pressures between the atmosphere and the upstream pressure in the pipe , in most cases this is due to elevated water in storage tanks.

Again, I guarantee you that concept is far more complicated than your pipe.

answer: true , the pipe example is sooo simple.

You are incorrect.

answer:
no Im not , in your next post please point to where I am incorrect.

Pay attention in general but mabe mostly in class. Make
your own experiment. See for yourself.

Im far beyond the pipe example at this point.
the pipe example is just to show that these laws are wrong.

because for people to understand that these laws are wrong there needs to be a simple example such as this one that they can easily understand.

it just keeps getting faster and faster and faster and
the pressure just keeps getting higher and higher and higher and the bearings are the only resistance to rotation.

there is hope for the future.




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