Re: more than 3 or 4...
Posted by anyman on Jul 10, 2002 at 16:23
Re: more than 3 or 4... (DA Morgan)
Fine. I've read the book a few times myself.
i very seriously doubt that...but should it be true...and i acknowledge that the possibility exists...while you may have read it, you certainly haven't studied it...there is a vast difference between reading and studying :-)
What do you call it? What do you call the intentional murder of every man, woman, and child in a country? What do you call the intentional murder of every first born son in a nation?
well...i don't call it murder...murder is sin...god is not a sinner...god is not a murderer
you may find that to be circular reasoning but i can live with that...first, i don't find it entirely circular and i'm not going to go into why, this thing is already going to be to long :-)
even if it were circular...circular reasoning does not necessarily imply a wrong conclusion...it is possible for one to arrive at a right conclusion regardless of what his reasoning may be...we'll just have to wait and see...i can wait...and the good news is that we will all surely see :-)
i tend to avoid disagreeing with god and the book, these days :-)
i wish i was as good at tending to avoid disobeying god and the book
we don't have to "try again," dano...i answered this above...i don't pretend to understand all that he does or all of his motives for doing things...as a finite mind, i am incapable of fully comprehending the things of an infinite mind (isaiah 55.8-9 again :-)
the only part of this that i struggle with, and i have no doubt that he commanded it be done, is that the infants were included
but my struggle is not entirely without ultimate resolution...
under the old covenant, the age of accountability was 20 years old and up (numbers 14.29-30)...those 19 and under were not accountable...i don't know if this is so under the new covenant (though i suspect it is) but that is irrelevant to this discussion since these accurately recorded literal historical events of which you speak occurred in the old covenant era
unaccountable infants (infants are born pure) and children will not go to hell, they will go to heaven...in that i take consolation...that and that they get to go to a better place sooner...without having to deal with much of the trouble that this life in this now corrupt and imperfect world has to offer...
that same consolation, by the way, extends to all of the multiple millions of children that have been murdered by abortion
as for the accountable adults, men and women that were put to death, the book has this to say...
all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of god ---romans 3.23
the wages of sin is death (wages of sin = what we deserve for our sin(s), any sin small or great) ---romans 6.23
since we deserve death for our sins...and since they were sinners...they got what they deserved...and i don't have a problem with that
i'm just glad i haven't gotten what i deserve...and hope you won't either...but that doesn't mean that we deserve death any less
those peoples that were put to death, even entire nations, were godless...they were guilty of some of the grossest imaginable abominable practices, many of them done in the name of and as sacrifice to false gods (ie no gods at all), others of them ideologically supported the practices or condoned them by their silence; they were no less guilty
going back to numbers 14, which i cited as an example of the age of accountability under the old covenant, please note that even the adults were forgiven of their sins from the time they left egypt up to and including their lack of belief/faith after the expedition by the spies into canaan/palestine ---numbers 14.19-20
but forgiveness does not = removing the temporal consequences of sin ---numbers 14.21-23; and the whole chapter
how he will deal with those people in eternity (ie eternal consequences) is entirely up to him...though he has made his standards and guidelines pretty clear
Is it just possibly conceivable that these are acts of pure evil?
it is not conceivable...a good and loving god that does not tolerate or accomdate evil would never commit acts that either pure or even partially evil...period
i'm sure there is another explanation far better than any i can offer...and i can assure you that if there is a line/qeue for those with questions when we all meet him on that day, i will be in it and this will be just one of a long list of questions that i seek more complete answers to
Or do you find some good in young children dying from leukemia?
they suffer and or die because of bad decisions, disobedience, sin on the part of our ancestors (and perhaps, sometimes certainly, because of some of our own)
the upside is that they get to go to a better place (heaven) sooner...they don't have to deal with many of the troubles that life in this now corrupt and imperfect world have to offer...i'd say that's a good thing...a real good thing :-)
Is that something you can justify?
i don't have to justify it; i didn't do it or plan it...i will leave it to him to justify himself...and my best guess is that he will do so splendidly...the good news is that we'll both be there to know what his justification is...we'll also be there for his justice and judgement...and that will either be a good or a bad thing, depending...
How about polio? diphtheria?
How does it feel to worship the creator of malaria and dysentary? Of AIDS and the black plague.
it feels great to worship the creator...you might want to try it sometime :-)
malaria and dysentary and aids and the black plague and anything else you want to add to the list are the result of man's choices, bad choices, disobedience, and sin...and some satanic influence, though choice to succumb to that influence is ours
we were warned that there would be consequences for disobedience...and sometimes the consequences of our foolish actions are not limited to ourselves...others in our own generation and others in the generations that will come long after us can also be affected...this should give us cause to consider what we do carefully
at best, you are theologically confused...at worst, you are intentionally trying to confuse others :-|
Oh I forgot ... the book says the creator of these things is good and loving. How foolish of me.
yes...how foolish of you indeed :-)
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