where is that oort cloud...(wade et al)

Posted by anyman on Jun 26, 2002 at 05:40

the lack of evidence does not necessarily mean that something does not exist...it may mean that it has just not yet been discovered

case in point...(don't worry, we will get to the oort cloud shortly)

in the 19th century (and for hundreds of years earlier) there were dozens of arguments used to claim that the book was wrong (many of them have since been falsified...the evidence is now in evidence :-)

one of the most often invoked involved a people called the hittites there was no extrabiblical historical or acheological evidence to support the existence of this people that the book referred to ~40x...in other words, the book and only the book claimed that these people had existed, and not only that they had existed but had significant geopolitical and societal influence...there was no other source of information that pointed to or even hinted at their existence

then just after the turn of the century (early 20th) some discoveries were made in what is now turkey...it took a few years to sort out, largely because of the bias that hittites had never existed, but it is now universally recognized that what was discovered was the hittite empire...and what an empire it was...multiple palaces, homes (some more advanced than most would have expected), schools, libraries, records of commerce...voila...within less than twenty years that antibiblical facade came tumbling down :-)

the book had been claiming their historical existence and even some minute details regarding them for more ~3400yrs...once again the scholars were wrong...and the book was right :-)

now, to the oort cloud...

the following comment is typical of some scienctists ( many evolutionary scientists that work more closely with evolutionary theory in some form)...

The majority of comets that reach the inner solar system originate in the Oort cloud. science

a simple statement of fact using positive and authoritative language as if it were unquestionable and known to all

it is understandable in some sense...we all use the same kind of langauge at times...but it is FAITH language all the same

but the only fact about the oort cloud is that neither it, nor anything even remotely associated with it, nor anything that would provide a shred of evidence for it's existence, has ever been discovered!!!

except, of course, the comets themselves...but using the comets to demonstrate the existence of the oort cloud would be the epitome, or apex, if you prefer, of circular reasoning

as far as observational science is concerned...it doesn't exist

the oort cloud was originally proposed as a source for long period comets (ie 200+ year orbits)...however, even if it were demonstrated to exist (and that likelihood is questionable), it has had and continues to have serious problems explaining a number of things in evolutionary terms

one of those problems was addressed, but hardly solved, with the proposal of the kuiper belt, which has also yet to be confirmed (some TNOs at least have been found but they only bring more problems of their own that we can discuss at another time)...the kuiper belt was proposed to solve short period comets (eg less than 200yr orbits)

so why am i on about comets...

two reasons...

some background...as comets orbit the sun, they lose massive quantities of the material composing them...especially as they near and recede from their respective perihelia (closest point of their orbit to the sun)

they can only do so many orbits before they lose so much that they break up and disappear...based on their size (estimated but observed) and the amount of material they are losing (estimated but observed), we can then calculate the number of revolutions they might be able to make before breaking up and disappearing

without a vast source of new comets, over millions and billions of years (ie the 4.6ga proposed as the age of the solar system) there wouldn't be any comets left...but there are lots of them...so something had to be done to save the evolutionary scenario...enter the oort cloud and kuiper belt :-) ...which are supposed to provide the new comet material that we observe today

of the extant comets more than an insignificant few would not be able to exist for more than ~10,000yrs

so the first reason that i am on about comets is because as far as we know from observational science, the reality that comets exist is evidence contrary to a solar system that is 4.6 billion years old...evidence against the evolutionary scenario...at least until the oort cloud is discovered...if ever

the second reason is that some of those comets could not exist for much more than ~10,000yrs...if there is no source, such as the oort cloud to provide new comets, then those comets are primordial to the solar system...that evidence would agree with and support a solar system that is younger than ~10,000yo

this is but one piece of many evidences that i have posted over the years and will continue to post until they are falsified...if ever

if the solar system is that young, it could not have had time to "evolve," and must have been created...if it was created, there is a creator :-)

so wade...i cannot "prove" the creationary scenario for you just like you cannot "prove" the evolutionary scenario, but i can offer evidence to support it...until you falsify my interpretation of the evidence, it stands

we all have the same evidence, the same data; it's a matter of which glasses we wear that affect our worldview and thus our respective interpretations of the data

the oort cloud was originally proposed as a patch to solve a serious problem for cosmological evolution, as was the kuiper belt...the problems remain...and both of those propositions still have serious problems of their own...which will require yet more patches...none of which are yet forthcoming :-)

for example, in the science abstract referred to above, bailey goes on to say...

However, models describing the dynamical evolution of such comets predict far more comets in short-period orbits than are observed.

and again

While important clues are being gathered, the coupled physicodynamical evolution of comets presents an intriguing puzzle.

say...got another patch...or twenty :-)

reference to the full article can be found here

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