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#8851 - 08/20/06 10:49 PM Steorn Free Energy Machine
Kate Offline

Senior Member

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 332
Time to step up and take a punt on what the guys at www.steorn.net are up to with their "free energy machine".

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Of Interest?
#8852 - 08/21/06 03:27 AM Re: Steorn Free Energy Machine
anyman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/18/04
Posts: 134
kate,

your poll is lame...

how about an option that says:

interesting, let's wait and see how it bears up under serious examination (or some such)

rather than cramming us all into arrogant authoritative snoot or radical wild-eyed fanatic categories

what harm is there in critically examining such claims (aside from preserving the paradigms)

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#8853 - 08/21/06 06:31 AM Re: Steorn Free Energy Machine
Kate Offline

Senior Member

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 332
Apologies for casting anyone as a "radical wild-eyed fanatic"!

How about the "Hey! I think it really works! Don't be so cynical!" option. Unfortunately you can't edit polls so perhaps just imagine that it says "Hey! I think it *might* really work! Don't be so cynical!"

Hope this helps you cope with the poll!

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#8854 - 08/21/06 08:26 AM Re: Steorn Free Energy Machine
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Possibly a more salient question would be:

Would you actually stake your life on the fact that the 'conservation of energy' principle cannot be violated?

Blacknad.

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#8855 - 08/21/06 08:48 AM Re: Steorn Free Energy Machine
dehammer Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1089
it all depends on what is called "free" energy. some people call wind and solar energy "free" because once your solar cells are working, it does not cost anything more. it does not cost anything to use the power of the wind itself, only the generator, supports and the windmill, etc itself cost anything.

then again, perhaps the machine is free and only the license to use it cost anything.
_________________________
the more man learns, the more he realises, he really does not know anything.

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#8856 - 08/21/06 02:47 PM Re: Steorn Free Energy Machine
TwoSheds Offline
Member

Registered: 08/17/06
Posts: 52
Loc: MA
Think it looks anything like this?




**Be advised this an attempt at humor**

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#8857 - 08/21/06 04:59 PM Re: Steorn Free Energy Machine
dr_rocket Offline
Member

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 196
Loc: Palo Alto, CA, USA
Thinking about the first and second laws of thermodynamics makes me think that this is a load of horse hockey.

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#8858 - 08/22/06 06:58 AM Re: Steorn Free Energy Machine
Kate Offline

Senior Member

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 332
Wow. Eighteen hours and 8 votes. This "democracy" stuff kicks butt!

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#8859 - 08/22/06 03:55 PM Re: Steorn Free Energy Machine
Eduardo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 106
Loc: Guildford, UK
My odds:-

79% It's a Publicity Stunt.
13% It's a Scam.
7.9999999999999% It's Bad Science.
0.0000000000001% It's Real.

PS I have probably vastly overestimated the chances of it being real. (I didn't want to wear out my zero key)
_________________________
Eduardo
Resistance is futile. Capacitance is efficacious.
There are 10 types of people in the world... Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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#8860 - 08/22/06 04:34 PM Re: Steorn Free Energy Machine
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Then I'll give you one of mine: 0

It meets every criteria for not being real. Which version of fraud is all that is left to debate.
_________________________
DA Morgan

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#8861 - 08/22/06 10:18 PM Re: Steorn Free Energy Machine
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
The only reason 'Steorn Company' of Ireland, has
challenged any scientists that will listen, to evaluate and test their 'Magnetic Free Energy Device'
I would suggest the reason they placed a full page advert in 'The Economist' ......a Business magazine is to get short sighted Companies to invest money in their idea.
The company, Steorn, says its discovery is based on the interaction of magnetic fields and allows the production of clean, free and constant energy -- a concept that challenges one of the basic rules of physics.
I understand that they are using a form of linear shuttering which alternately shields and releases a magnetic field?

After some thought and giving them the benefit of doubt.....I would suggest that they MAY have possibly come up with a more efficient way of generating an electric current.
The usual method is by rotating a coil within an electric field. Or even by shaking a magnet within a coil, as per an LED flashlite currently on the market.
Prehaps thair 'alternate shuttering' is nothing more than a stepped annular ring made out of Mu metal, which is set spinning, between a magnet and coil.
A mobile phone can be activated by replacing its battery with a spring loaded lever and cog that drives a rotating coil. Not that I've ever seen one. wink
There is almost certainly a more efficient method of generating and storing an electrical current, just over the horizon. But it wont be free to violate the conservation of energy.

The most efficient moving item that I have ever seen is the rotating pendulum that drives the incredible perpetual "Atmos" clock.

http://www.compadapt.com/atmos.html

You want to get rich? Make an existing item more efficient. mad
_________________________
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"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



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#8862 - 08/23/06 12:14 AM Re: Steorn Free Energy Machine
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
If you want efficient rotation get a politician.

Seriously ... I would be thinking cryogenics ... superfluidity.

It is true that any moving magnetic field will create an electric field. That is middle school physics.

The question is really one of what is creating the magnetic field (there must be a cost) and what is creating the movement (there must also be a cost).

My preference would be all the prisoners in all the prisons on a very large wheel. Now that would be paying their debt to society.
_________________________
DA Morgan

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#8863 - 08/23/06 04:17 PM Re: Steorn Free Energy Machine
dehammer Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1089
too bad we cant get gwb's and congress's political manuvering energy. that would power the whole world for the next few centuries.
_________________________
the more man learns, the more he realises, he really does not know anything.

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#8864 - 08/24/06 12:24 AM Re: Steorn Free Energy Machine
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
All that hot air and no way to capture it.
_________________________
DA Morgan

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#8865 - 08/24/06 06:47 AM Re: Steorn Free Energy Machine
extrasense Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 427
Loc: USA
Well,

it is at least as good science as quantum computing and nano robots smile

es

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#8866 - 08/24/06 08:00 AM Re: Steorn Free Energy Machine
TheFallibleFiend Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1940
Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
Warning. I read an article on this, but not their own web page.

This is great, if it pans out; however,
1) It seems more than likely a marketing ploy, or
2) Measurement error - you need to have the correct equipment to measure the right amount. If they're so far doing smaller amounts of energy, you could get that kind of error in round-off.

3) even IF they are getting out more than they personally put into the system, that doesn't mean there's more than what going in to the system. There is energy all around us - it could be this device is tapping into that energy. (If this works with small amounts of energy, it may or may not scale.)

In Feyman Lectures on Physics - I think first or second chapter he gives a really good explanation involving blocks. I *strongly* encourage you guys to look it up. (The explanation is duplicated in 1st chapter of H. C. Van Ness's book "Understanding Thermodynamics".)

That is, even if the device does what they claim it does, it's not clear that it's actually violating the 1st law. Yes. I'd stake my life on the first law being true.

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#8867 - 08/24/06 08:45 AM Re: Steorn Free Energy Machine
dehammer Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1089
re #3, i believe ive read of a small engine (very small) that works on the principle of warming gas expanding and cooler gas contracting. If memory serves its used in clocks and things. you personally dont have to add a single bit of energy, but the changes in room temperature from day to night is enough to wind its spring. If i remember correctly (its been decades) someone suggested having something simular to build a huge facility to get the difference in the air and water to drive electric generators. Obviously nothing ever happen with it. Likely someone with a little bit of understanding of physics and engineering came along and found the problems with it in short order. This is likely to be as close to perpetual motion as well ever see.
_________________________
the more man learns, the more he realises, he really does not know anything.

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#8868 - 08/24/06 09:25 AM Re: Steorn Free Energy Machine
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
Did you read my earlier thread posted on this subject? If not go back and read. (on how the Atmos works)

I am including another interesting fact here, not generally know, but it might interest you.

Take a 10" copper disc, at least 10" diam, (larger
gives more output)
Just spin it.....it develops electricity, no magnets. or any other items required!

Maximum output from central shaft, and circumference. wink
Amaze your fiends, have fun.
_________________________
.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



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#8869 - 08/24/06 03:24 PM Re: Steorn Free Energy Machine
dehammer Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1089
does that work off the planets magnetic field?
_________________________
the more man learns, the more he realises, he really does not know anything.

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#8870 - 08/24/06 09:02 PM Re: Steorn Free Energy Machine
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
Quote:
Originally posted by dehammer:
does that work off the planets magnetic field?
Correct! Grin.
_________________________
.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



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