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#8757 - 08/16/06 03:51 PM Evolution
ShaBlammaLamma Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 2
Loc: USA
In the end of the evolution article it mentions that the science community is not giving people enough instruction which is why so many don't believe in evolution. That sounds a bit like brainwashing to me. Sounds like the science community wants to force people in to their beliefs of evolution.

I have done research in that field as well as Global Warming... I don't believe in either. I would, of course, not be so brash to think that I could instruct others to believe my points or ideas. That could be why the science community faces such criticism... deserved, or most likely, not.

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Of Interest?
#8758 - 08/16/06 05:31 PM Re: Evolution
TheFallibleFiend Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1940
Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
In my years of experience discussing and debating this subject, the biggest factor affecting whether a person believes in evolution is whether they understand it.

Invariably when I find people who fail to believe it, even though they claim that they have done "substantial research" into the subject, I discover that their vast and careful studies have left them utterly devoid of the slightest understanding of the subject: they "know" lots of things that are not true.

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#8759 - 08/16/06 05:43 PM Re: Evolution
DA Morgan Offline
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Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
ShablammaLamma wrote:
"Sounds like the science community wants to force people in to their beliefs of evolution."

No I really don't care what you believe. You can believe in the invisible purple rhinoceros if you choose. I only object when you brainwash children. Or commit acts of violence against non-believers.

Shalalaboombiyah wrote:
"I have done research in that field as well as Global Warming"

Of course you have.
At what university or college?
In what year?
Who was your advisor?
What name can I find you under in the citation index?
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#8760 - 08/21/06 02:44 PM Re: Evolution
ShaBlammaLamma Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 2
Loc: USA
Ahhh, yes. I forgot that when I post anything that I MUST give my resume. I MUST give all of the details of my research so all of you can pick it apart and say that I am wrong.

It is pretty convenient to say that because I don't believe the same way, I MUST not have done enough research in to the subject. That was more-or-less my point.

It IS possible for anyone to do research in a field and NOT agree with it.

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#8761 - 08/21/06 03:03 PM Re: Evolution
TheFallibleFiend Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1940
Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
I have no problem with Intelligent Design advocates or other creationists rejecting evolution - none at all.

My problem is when expect others to reject evolution on scientific grounds based on the authority of their careful research into the subject. IF they actually had some good information, it would be great, even it it caused me to rethink some basic assumptions.

However, invariably I discover that when these creationists explain their position, they belie an almost utter lack of understanding of the material - and it seems like they are all reading from the same cue cards, because most of them are wrong in fairly predictable ways.

Often times this takes the form of a challenge:
Evolution says X, but we "know" X to be false, therefore, evolution must be false.

Usually when they say this, evolution doesn't say anything of the sort, and often we don't know X to be false.

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#8762 - 08/21/06 03:07 PM Re: Evolution
dehammer Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1089
sorry sha, but some people around here say that if you don't accept the political correct scaremongers tales, you have to be wrong. I have to disagree with you on evolution, but then again, I've not done that much research on it, only what I've read in school more than two decades ago. Since i don't believe in the bible, i don't really have anything to argue against what they taught in school. do you have anything other than the bible to use as an alternative?

global warming on the other hand, i am definitely in agreement with you. Ive been doing research on it lately, and I've seen way to much evidence against it to believe it is anything but a political statement.
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#8763 - 08/21/06 06:26 PM Re: Evolution
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
dehammer wrote:
"sorry sha, but some people around here say that if you don't accept the political correct scaremongers tales, you have to be wrong."

No they don't. They say put up or shut up. You've yet to put up ... anything that supports what you say.

When you do you will be respected ... even if it respectful disagreement.
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DA Morgan

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#8764 - 08/22/06 01:10 AM Re: Evolution
dehammer Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1089
and that has to do with evolution.... how?
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the more man learns, the more he realises, he really does not know anything.

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#8765 - 08/22/06 09:09 AM Re: Evolution
TwoSheds Offline
Member

Registered: 08/17/06
Posts: 52
Loc: MA
Quote:
I don't believe in either. I would, of course, not be so brash to think that I could instruct others to believe my points or ideas.
Instructing others or defending your belief is the ultimate test of it. Others will put your argument under greater scrutiny than you may have. Don't be embarrassed to have a disagreement. You don't need to have a good resume, just a good argument.

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#8766 - 08/22/06 12:31 PM Re: Evolution
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Make that a good argument founded upon verifiable facts.

Any idiot can argue and most of them do.
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DA Morgan

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#8767 - 08/28/06 04:31 PM Re: Evolution
TheFallibleFiend Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1940
Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
Tim,

Do you have anything about science to contribute to this forum?

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#8768 - 08/28/06 05:13 PM Re: Evolution
dehammer Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1089
this is not the place for preaching.
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the more man learns, the more he realises, he really does not know anything.

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#8769 - 08/28/06 06:38 PM Re: Evolution
jjw Offline
Superstar

Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 636
Loc: USA
ShablammaLamma, you know that is a mouthfull here.

You have a good point. Those that are deeply into evolution theory want to offer it to the rest of us as if it was not a working tool with some merit but rather as established fact. Darwin's idea is incomplete. There is so much to learn that we will never learn until we stop thinking we know it all. Think about it, what tools did Darwin have at his disposal? His eyes, his pen and paper, and his interpretations. Basic stuff.
Mutation is at the heart of evolution here.
Just one guys thought.
jjw

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#8770 - 08/28/06 07:56 PM Re: Evolution
dehammer Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1089
There are some facts that are known and proven about evolution. then there are the theories that connect them. that is why its called the theory of evolution, not the law of evolution. Theories are constantly adapting to new data. they dont simply ignore any new data.

beliefs such as those held by the christians that believe that the earth is less than 6000 years old are not capable of handling real data.
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the more man learns, the more he realises, he really does not know anything.

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#8771 - 08/28/06 08:32 PM Re: Evolution
TheFallibleFiend Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1940
Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
Evolution is an established fact AND it is incomplete. No theory is 'complete' in the sense that it answers everything. Germ theory of disease doesn't explain genetic diseases. The fact that planes can fly isn't explained by gravity.

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#8772 - 08/29/06 02:15 PM Re: Evolution
jjw Offline
Superstar

Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 636
Loc: USA
An entirely different issue and subject TFF but while we know flight is in opposition to gravity I am very impressed that a little vacumn on top of a wing causing a little extra pressure on the bottom of the wing will lift 500,000 lbs of cargo when designed into the Russian monster plane!
Most likely the Wright Bros did not anticipate that end result.
jjw

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#8773 - 08/29/06 06:31 PM Re: Evolution
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
jjw wrote:
"Darwin's idea is incomplete."

Darwin's idea was not just incomplete it was wrong. Darwin knew nothing of chromosomes, genes, mutations, or any of the other things from which modern evolution theory is made.

Darwin was perhaps one of the first people with the courage to point in the right direction. But calling evolution Darwinism is as meaningful as calling gravity "Newtonism" or calling astronomy "Gallileoism."
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DA Morgan

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#8774 - 08/29/06 07:18 PM Re: Evolution
dehammer Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1089
Darwinism is not the exact same as evolution, mainly because evolution has more data than Darwin had. That does not mean that either of them is completely wrong.
_________________________
the more man learns, the more he realises, he really does not know anything.

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#8775 - 08/29/06 11:25 PM Re: Evolution
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
And neither was Newton which is why I used him as an example. Newtonian gravity is good for almost everything in our daily experience (excluding GPS readings and such).
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DA Morgan

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#8776 - 08/30/06 10:48 AM Re: Evolution
Tim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 192
Loc: California
Darwinian evolution was found to be unscientific, going against the laws of physics, chemistry, and biology. Have you ever read, "On the Origin of Species"? The guy doesn't have a clue about what science is.

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