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paul Offline OP
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Quote:
Paul, you are leaving out the major argument against all of the questions of how the Noah Project worked. Miracles.


you mean you dont need some type of proof?

LOL , I didnt just fall off of the turnip truck.

Quote:
After all the Noah story is the story of a miracle any way.


if it was a miracle , then why didnt God just do as you said?

Quote:
If God needed all of the animals to get to the ark and needed them all on the arc all He had to do was to make it be.


God could have just done it , he didnt need an ark , but we
wouldnt have such a nice story to tell if he did.





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Ah yes the loving caring GOD that creates genocide on everything on the planet except the chosen ones. But thou shalt not kill and Hitler was evil ... right?

I love the smell of napalm in the morning smile

Last edited by Orac; 04/05/14 03:09 AM.

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paul Offline OP
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God doesnt create genocide , but people like yourself just
happen to get born , they are the creators of genocide.

and its people like yourself who find fault in God.

I think its mostly jealousy.

Quote:
I love the smell of napalm in the morning


God also didnt create napalm.






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So is the story true did GOD kill everything or not?

Do we need little asterix exclusion on each of the commandments

Thou shall not kill (*except if you are GOD)

The problem with the story to me is not the animals it paints GOD as a cruel vengeful version of Hitler and so I don't think it is supposed to be literal it feels more like it is supposed to be an allegory.

Last edited by Orac; 04/05/14 03:30 AM.

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paul Offline OP
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Quote:
So is the story true did GOD kill everything or not?


the story doesnt say he killed everything , it clearly states
that Noah and his family were spared and the animals were not all killed off.

but if you would have been there what do you think
your chances would have been?

Quote:
Thou shall not kill (*except if you are GOD)


dont forget the evil politicians , the evil scientist , the evil rich etc...

Quote:
The problem with the story to me is not the animals it paints GOD as a cruel vengeful version of Hitler.


so killing the people didnt bother you?

you have a mind to think with , if the story bothers you
then maybe thats something.

to me the story shows that God can get upset himself if we
get out of hand.




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Originally Posted By: paul
the story doesnt say he killed everything , it clearly states
that Noah and his family were spared and the animals were not all killed off.

Ok that makes sense so if I do a mass murder but leave one person alive it's okay. Have to pass that on as a defense to some of people charged with mass murder, it's okay your honor I left some people alive it isn't that bad.


Originally Posted By: paul
dont forget the evil politicians , the evil scientist , the evil rich etc...

Yeah but they didn't make rule ... ah so it's do as I say not as I do for GOD is it?

Originally Posted By: Paul
so killing the people didnt bother you?

Yeah it bothers me which is why I don't think any GOD would actually do it and if a GOD did behave like that it isn't a GOD it is the DEVIL or pure evil.

Originally Posted By: Paul
to me the story shows that God can get upset himself if we get out of hand.

So GOD has off days and temper tantrums ... really that sits okay with your idea of GOD?

I find your ideas weird if there is a GOD and he is all know etc I would expect him to be kind, caring and always even handed goes with the all knowing thing.

Anyhow this has gone on long enough don't want to start a flame war just pointing out my objection to Noah which you have got now ... I think it is supposed to be an allegory full of symbolism ... May your GOD be with you Paul ... did I do that right?

Last edited by Orac; 04/05/14 04:10 AM.

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paul Offline OP
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Quote:
Yeah but they didn't make rule ..


thats true.

God Created Man.

God made the rules for Man to live by.

Man broke the rules.

thats pretty clear and straight forward.

if you dont like the story or believe the story thats
your choice.

if you think the punishment was to harsh , then you should
find a way to point that out to God.

have you ever drawn a picture or built something that wasnt
exactly the way you wanted it to be , then you tore it apart
so you could start again.

its not like were on an even keel with God , we are His
Creation not our own Creation.


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Will you stop please arguing about religion or God?
If you say 'God created Man', you mean God genetically manipulated something into us.
If you say 'God created Man', you mean someone from space created man. Or is God a spirit according to you?
I am an atheïst for a very specific reason:

RELIGION DEPENDS ON TIME, PLACE, EDUCATION AND EVEN RACE.

If you were born in Pakistan, you would say: Allah is great!
If your parents were Jews, you would probably wear a Hat Rabbi and would have hair curls. In medievel Europe, christianity had all power and I have never seen a black man wearing Buddhist clothes yet...

So back to reality plz
TTT

Ps: speaking of Noah, what 'human' lifeform can live for 600 years??

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paul Offline OP
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this thread was started because of Noahs Flood.

and just because you have chosen to be an atheist does not
mean that all religion is wrong , and it does not mean that atheism is right either.

atheism must be a choice that you made because you perceive
that atheism is the logical choice and that is why you
chose to become an atheist.

is it your opinion or belief that I do not have a opinion or a choice of my own to make and that I should drop all that
seems logical to me and become an atheist even though atheism does not seem logical to me?

I do agree that arguing about the existence of God should
not be a part of this discussion , and the reasons that God
had to destroy man with the Flood should not be a part of
this discussion , and that killing almost all of man should
not be a part of this discussion.

this discussion is supposed to be about the possibilities
of the story of Noahs Flood actually happening and reasons
how the water levels that covered all of the mountain tops could have been a reality and nothing else.


but when things are looking dim for the doubters of any
possibilities of the Bible Stories being found to be possible the doubters of the Bible Stories usually start flaming God
as if that will lean the discussion in their favor.


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Noahs Flood is probably a historical fact, it is written in many ancient texts.

Deep in Earth's heart, the sons of Amenti heard,
and hearing, directing the changing of the flower of fire
that burns eternally, changing and shifting, using the logos,
until that great fire changed its direction.
Over the world then broke the great waters,
drowning and sinking,

changing Earth's balance
...
Gathered I then my people and
entered the great ship of the Master.
Upward we rose into the morning.
Dark beneath us lay the Temple.
Suddenly over it rose the waters.
Vanished from Earth,
until the time appointed,
was the great Temple.
Fast we fled toward the sun of the morning,
until beneath us lay the land of the children of KHEM.
Raging, they came with cudgels and spears,
lifted in anger seeking to slay and utterly destroy the Sons of Atlantis.



So the flood did occur because they shifted the rotation of the inner sun using a power, called the logos (?). Also on the inside of the Earth there was a flood, so the people there had to escape with a spacecraft. They call our sun 'the sun of the morning'. So they flew to the outside (probably through the opening of the pole) till they saw Atlantis being destroyed.

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That is not quite true the story of gilgamesh is a series of legends in poem form to the Tajik people and many other Persian races it is much like greece god mythology it is not ever considered factual as that is not it's purpose.

If you want to hear it sung like I encountered it as a child youtube Abed Azrie - Epopée de Gilgamesh.

Last edited by Orac; 04/06/14 09:52 AM.

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If I remember rightly the story of Gilgamesh tells also of the hole through the Earth through which the sun passed each night so that it could rise again in the morning. Didn't Gilgamesh run through that hole, staying ahead of the sun? Great story, lots of deep meaning, but hardly the best source of actual physical information.


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paul Offline OP
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Quote:
Nearly every culture in every region of the world has a myth about a great flood that was sent to earth from a higher being in order to punish humans for their transgressions and cleanse the world of impurity.





http://voices.yahoo.com/great-flood-myths-different-cultures-similar-621101.html

how would you explain how nearly every culture in every
region of the world has a flood story?

did they email the stories between countries?

or was it because there were large bridges that connected all countries together?

how could it be that everywhere on the earth there is a story
of a great flood if the cultures could not communicate between
themselves.

its logical to me to assume that there was a great flood.


and its illogical to me to assume that there was not a great flood.

Im glad that different versions of the story have been posted
because diverse versions point to the logical conclusion that
there was a great flood.

stories can change over time when they are orally passed down from
generation to generation when there is no written text of
the account.

and as far as I know of there is no written first hand account
that was written down by any of the participants of any of the diverse accounts of the event.


my logic tells me that the stories from the cultures throughout the world that these stories come out of were passed down by the descendants of the people who were on the ark. ( or another transport mechanism in another story )

otherwise there would only be a single regional version of the story , it would not be a worldwide story.

I think that through a comparison of the many accounts of the
story and using the information in the stories the original
location of the event can be found.

but this discussion is to examine the possibilities of the
event taking place.

pinpointing the original story and location would follow that
determination.






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Bill S is spot on Gilgamesh is like a folktale and it has a very deep meaning and if you take it literal you miss the whole point.

I was actually shocked the first time I found western people comparing the story of Noah in the bible to Gilgamesh because to me they are nothing alike except to some western perverse justification ... it is actually rude and insulting.

Like much of the history of Egypt has had to be fixed in the last decades because of mistakes by very overtly British 1920's handling. So with Gilgamesh the west did not even bother to get a proper Arab translation of the text until the 1960's by Taha Baqir who correctly describes the story as told to me and has been handed down by my people.

I think certain people who want these ancient texts as some sort of proof for there own beliefs have just butchered and made their own translations to justify there own stupid arguments.

To make the point it would be like someone taking your national anthem claiming they have their own translation of it and that it somehow proves something you find completely wrong.


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paul Offline OP
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Quote:
Gilgamesh is like a folktale


wasn't the city of troy also like a folktale?
until it was found.

Quote:
comparing the story of Noah in the bible to Gilgamesh because to me they are nothing alike except to some western perverse justification ... it is actually rude and insulting.


western?

surely your not suggesting that it is only people in the
western regions that find the similarities interesting?

Quote:
how could it be that everywhere on the earth there is a story
of a great flood if the cultures could not communicate between
themselves.


how do you explain that?

Quote:
To make the point it would be like someone taking your national anthem claiming they have their own translation of it and that it somehow proves something you find completely wrong.


do you have some type of evidence that the origin of the worlds
flood stories originated from the story of Gilgamesh?

if you don't then would you consider that the story of
gilgamesh would be rude and insulting to others who believe that their cultures story of the flood is the origin of the
many flood stories of the world.


wouldn't a scientific approach to finding the origin of the
worlds flood stories be better than having the diverse
cultures that claim that their stories of the flood are the origin of all other flood stories?



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Quote:
wouldn't a scientific approach to finding the origin of the
worlds flood stories be better than having the diverse
cultures that claim that their stories of the flood are the origin of all other flood stories?


100% with you there, Paul, but it would need to be genuinely scientific, rather than various groups looking for evidence to back up their already held beliefs.


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Gee, I wonder if rising sea levels and glacial lake drainage could explain flood stories at the global scale. The timing would make sense.


Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.
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Originally Posted By: samwik
Gee, I wonder if rising sea levels and glacial lake drainage could explain flood stories at the global scale. The timing would make sense.

I don't think so. The Noah story took place less than 7,000 years ago and the last glaciation ended around 10,000 years ago. That would be a large error in dating.

Bill Gill


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C is the universal speed limit.
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Originally Posted By: Bill
Originally Posted By: samwik
Gee, I wonder if rising sea levels and glacial lake drainage could explain flood stories at the global scale. The timing would make sense.

I don't think so. The Noah story took place less than 7,000 years ago and the last glaciation ended around 10,000 years ago. That would be a large error in dating.

Bill Gill
I didn't know the Noah story, or any flood stories, were dated at all; but I figured they originated as oral histories before ever being written down.
When did the Mediterranean fill enough to flood the Black Sea?


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paul Offline OP
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aluminum !! ( pre 19th century )

interesting video about Noahs Ark.



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