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The tilt of the earth's axis out of alignment with the orbital plane is not considered to be a major factor in anything but the seasons.
REP: yes it is not major factor from the point of view of Heat content but it offers its services .. rather critical services of season creation and destruction.Internally it means that it produces a Heat cycle which actually pumps the small but very important seasonal changes.Without Seasonal changes intelligent life is not possible.Imagine the great African prosperous Wildlife at its infacny when everything was in plenty... All around the year there was weather remained same in some parts...
Making the species complacent and vulnerable.
Suddenly the whole jungle used to get wiped out due to outbreak of diseases. Remember the Dinosaurs. Part of the reason behind their extinction remains biological.
Thus Tilt may not contribute to net Internal Heat but it produces the differential required to pump the Seasons.Notice that its internal contribution can not be neglected otherwise the system fails.There are Steam Cycles below the earth which use this differntial change produce what is called as stable climate(no such AC can be reproduced easily).Can anyone tell me what will be Earth Tempreature Distributuion if the Earth did not choose to Tilt the way it did?
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The earth, at 93,000,000 miles from the sun and only 5000 miles in diameter, would be subjected to only trivial variations in force due to it's tilt on it's axis as it revolves around the sun.
REP: Yes but we should know that the Tidal Force(from Sun or the Moon) is no more important or less important than the Season inducing Tilt.
There are other factors as well which contributes negligibly but are important.

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Q:Does a planet's tilt contribute to it's internal heat?

No, Jim, it doesn't. The internal heat is, for planets, or better has been generated in the formation of the planet by the conversion of gravitational energy in thermal energy (called heat of accretion), by the differentiation of the planet's material in layers of different densities(lithosphere and core for example) or by radioactive decay.

For stars, the situation is rather different. More mass being involved, the heat of accretion raises the temperature so much that fusion reactions become possible on a large scale, and these reactions produce further energy, etc.

Tilt has nothing to do with this, in the sense that seasonal heating it is more than negligible compared to the internal heating. Even for the planets close to the Sun. You compare temperature variations at the surface of say a few hundred degrees at best with tens of thousands of degrees in the core.

But there is something that I don't understand. I know that you are looking for your own interpretation of the solar system, and this is fine. But some of the questions you've been asking are below freshman astronomy, and I belive it would be much more efficient for you if you actually read an astronomy/astrophysics book. There is wealth of such books, some of them presenting elementary phenomenology without too many formulae and theories. If you'd like, I can round up some titles for you.It would be a much better use of your time than reading dkv's aberations like: "There are other factors as well which contributes negligibly but are important."

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Thank you Pasti for your sound advice.

Was it Holmes (or Doyle) that said something like ?when all possible causes have been ruled out what remains must be the answer?, or some such. You are taking me back to the conclusions historically offered as the cause. It is clear to me that reading more astronomy books will not provide any new answers. What ever the state of astronomical thinking may be as to Venus and Uranus it fails to distinguish between the ?normal? members of the system and those that appear to be otherwise. I read more as I dream up more issues. I rely on the academics findings and conclusions for just about all my efforts as long as they have answers to offer which deal with the issues I pursue. In this instance I start with a simple documented fact- to wit- that Venus and Uranus are two planets that produce a lot of heat. A lot more than the balance of the tribe in general. Next, the two planets that do this are documented to be in retrograde rotation. The prospective answer for the extra heat may be found in the orientation, or not, and the issue, to me, is not answered in the books, so I am looking for it.

This is not complex but the outcome could have an effect on gravitation and all of the other interplanetary relationships that we now take for granted.

Looking back on it I see that it was not such a good idea to post this question on this forum. I guess I thought some smart person would offer me an avenue to travel towards a possible solution and that was a little too optimistic. I will go on with the effort on my own time. Thank you again for the comments.

I think I like dkv?s observations because they force me to try to understand. Whether I can or not does not make them any less entertaining for me.
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It was Holmes (and A.C. Doyle since the latter created the former). I understand your approach, but in my view it doesn't hurt to know the arguments of the opposing counsel. And decide for yourself if they are accurate or not. In my oppinion, it is much better than trying to make sense of dkv's ramblings.

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:Does a planet's tilt contribute to it's internal heat?
No, Jim, it doesn't.
REP: Yes but neglibly when comared to total Heat content.By internal I mean the Heat content of the Planet.Tilt triggers a Heat Cycle which does its job of keeping the seaons running.
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The internal heat is, for planets, or better has been generated in the formation of the planet by the conversion of gravitational energy in thermal energy (called heat of accretion), by the differentiation of the planet's material in layers of different densities(lithosphere and core for example) or by radioactive decay.
REP: Thats fine.In short it was there at the time of creation and infact it has been loosing its internal heat.We are in the golden period of Earth where the Internal Heat has stable value due to a complex evolutionary process.The difference is of few degrees and we would never have been there to discuss it.It is such a lucky mix.
Earth consists of Intelligent Life Conducive Heat Cycles which runs on the Solar Energy ..
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For stars, the situation is rather different. More mass being involved, the heat of accretion raises the temperature so much that fusion reactions become possible on a large scale, and these reactions produce further energy, etc.
REP: Even that is fine.Let us Start a new Topic how Stars generate Internal Heat.
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Tilt has nothing to do with this
REP: By "this" I mean the Season effect.Which is when compared to the Actual Heat content leaves no scope for significant discussion but is it not true that without the Tilt the Seasonal Variation will vanish? Isnt it true that intelligent life(like humans) can not grow on a Monotnous Region of extreme Harsh climate or extremly Conducive Climate...Both lead to self destruction.It makes sense.Any Evolutionist will say that there are inherent limits on allowable conditions for initelligent life like evolution...Thats why Tilt has a insignificant contribution to Heat Content but Significant Contribution to its distibution in a way which helps life to grow.
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, in the sense that seasonal heating it is more than negligible compared to the internal heating.
REP: The Origin of Earth accounts for most of its heat.The same Core should be found in most of the Planets...What comes out of a planet as measured value of internal heat depends on Many factors.However nothing like Venus is expected =============================================
Even for the planets close to the Sun. You compare temperature variations at the surface of say a few hundred degrees at best with tens of thousands of degrees in the core.
REP: Yes and this is the reason I said that Venus doesnt belong to this Group.
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"There are other factors as well which contributes negligibly but are important."
REP: If we are discussing the amount of heat content then the contribution is neglible.Infact nothing else contributes as significantly as its Origin in past.
But if we are discussing its distribution then the situation is different and the Tilt becomes important..
And I am not aware why I should be wrong.

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dkv, the question was:"Does a planet's tilt contribute to it's internal heat?"

This question has a very precise meaning. At least for us, the narrow minded physicists, it refers to the influence of the tilt of the planets on the processes that take place in the core of the planets that generate heat.

And the answer is no, the tilt does not influence these processes.

dkv:"Yes but neglibly when comared to total Heat content.By internal I mean the Heat content of the Planet.Tilt triggers a Heat Cycle which does its job of keeping the seaons running."

Seasons are due to the tilt of the rotation axis/equatorial plane with respect to the orbital plane. Simpler put, due to tilt different hemispheres of the planet receive more heat from the Sun during the time necessay for a planet to complete a full orbit around the Sun. So now we are clear at least what seasons are.

Now there is the (more or less academic) question of whether the seasons affect the internal heat of the planet, as you claim. Once again, for us the narrow minded physicists, this question has a very precise meaning. It means that we would like to know whether the seasonal temperature variations affect the temperatures in the core of the planet (remember that the core of the planet is responsible for the generation of internal heat). And without entering too many practical details, the answer is once again, no. Seasonal temperature variations (and day/night variations for that matter) only raise the temperature of a very thin surface layer of the planet (much like what happens on Earth with the temperatures of the oceans: deep enough the temperature remains constant irrespective of what the temperature at the surface is). So the answer is once again, no, seasonal variations in temperature are irrelevant to the processes that take place in the cores of the planets and which generate the internal heat.

So returning to your answer, as far as one can make any sense of it, no, the seasonal effect isn?t even negligible when it comes to the internal core processes. And the heat cycle generated by the tilt is a consequence of the seasons, and not what keeps the seasons running.


dkv: ?Thats fine.In short it was there at the time of creation and inf act it has been loosing its internal heat. We are in the golden period of Earth where the Internal Heat has stable value due to a complex evolutionary process. The difference is of few degrees and we would never have been there to discuss it. It is such a lucky mix. Earth consists of Intelligent Life Conducive Heat Cycles which runs on the Solar Energy .?

The difference of a few degrees does not exist in fact, and ?Earth consists of Intelligent Life Conducive Heat Cycles which runs on the Solar Energy? once again, is a statement that you make and which makes no sense. Not even philosophically.

REP: Even that is fine. Let us Start a new Topic how Stars generate Internal Heat.

I am so happy that I have your seal of approval regarding the internal processes in stars! It has always been my lifelong goal!
As for starting the new topic, google up the carbon cycle on stars. It?s been on the market for close to 3 decades now.

??Tilt has nothing to do with this?
dkv: ?By "this" I mean the Season effect.?

When I wrote the line that you quote, ?this? meant the internat heat generation mechanics/processes. It seems that for you it once again means something entirely different.

dkv: ?Which is when compared to the Actual Heat content leaves no scope for significant discussion but is it not true that without the Tilt the Seasonal Variation will vanish? Isn?t it true that intelligent life (like humans)? can not grow on a Monotonous Region of extreme Harsh climate or extremly Conducive Climate...Both lead to self destruction. It makes sense. Any Evolutionist will say that there are inherent limits on allowable conditions for intelligent life like evolution...That?s why Tilt has a insignificant contribution to Heat Content but Significant Contribution to its distribution in a way which helps life to grow. ?

Focus dkv, focus! On the issue that is being discussed, that is! That without seasons life might not have come into existence on Earth is a different issue altogether. But even in that context, seasons were not the fundamental cause of the apparition of life.


REP: ?The Origin of Earth accounts for most of its heat. The same Core should be found in most of the Planets. What comes out of a planet as measured value of internal heat depends on Many factors. However nothing like Venus is expected. Even for the planets close to the Sun. You compare temperature variations at the surface of say a few hundred degrees at best with tens of thousands of degrees in the core.
dkv: Yes and this is the reason I said that Venus doesn?t belong to this Group.

Once again, I have no ideea what group you refer to. As for what Jim says, it is not inconceivable that the conditions on Venus to be what they are. It is almost as heavy as the Earth, so it is conceivable that it can retain an atmosphere. It is closer to the Sun, so it receives more heat, and as such it is not unreasonable to expect a strong greenhouse effect to be present at its surface and in its atmosphere. The only aspect that makes Venus different is that it rotates clockwise, in the opposite direction that the ?norm?. And I believe this was Jim?s point. He is trying to correlate, among other things, the conditions on Venus with it?s peculiar rotation.

"There are other factors as well which contributes negligibly but are important."
dkv: ?If we are discussing the amount of heat content then the contribution is negligible. In fact nothing else contributes as significantly as its Origin in past. But if we are discussing its distribution then the situation is different and the Tilt becomes important. And I am not aware why I should be wrong.?

The fact that you are not aware why you should be wrong makes you a person that should read more, to answer a question that you asked earlier. As for the rest of your statement, FOCUS ON THE TOPIC THAT IS DISCUSSED. Which is the influence of the planetary tilt on its internal heat. Not the influence of seasons on the existence of life, not how the distribution of the seasonal heat makes a planet more or less hospitable to life. STAY WITH THE TOPIC THAT IS DISCUSSED.

What you do is you change the context in which the issue is discussed and then you claim that you are right in your assumptions. LEARN TO DISCIPLINE YOUR THINKING AND REASONING, and be less concerned with being right no matter what. It is this aspect of your postings that make you a person who needs to learn more. Your strategy, when confronted on an issue or an argument, is to change the context of the discussion, and then to claim in the new context that you are right and have in fact always been right. That might work with other people, but it isn?t working with me. If you will ever take my advice and learn more about the issues you want to discuss, maybe you will understand that being always right no matter what is a childish trend, and maybe you will also understand that being right in science is not a matter of personal oppinion but a matter of (observed) facts and reasoning. And maybe, once you realize these things you will be able to handle discussions in a more cogent manner.

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I don't watch TV, and who needs to when you have entertainment as rich as this at the click of a mouse - and I am learning at the same time. Keep it up - I love this forum.

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This error is annoying though.

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It's a server error and should be fixed soon. We hope.

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Hi dkv.

I am about finished with this post but I want to get you focused on the point. I am talking about the potential internal heat. For Venus the effect overall, from all potential sources is quoted at 484 degrees celcius (730 k). I have no interest in seaonal surface changes that are obvious to all and well determined. Think about it.
jw

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