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#41779 - 12/11/11 02:19 AM a new method of magnet refrigeration: just an idea
BestSimple Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/11/11
Posts: 5
I would introduce an invention on magnet electrics refrigeration or generation.
In this invention, you may place two pieces of different magnet materials connectted to each other and make a loop.
Place a DC coil around one piece.
Then the two contacts may be one cold one hot.
See attached, please.

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Of Interest?
#41780 - 12/11/11 12:39 PM Re: a new method of magnet refrigeration: just an idea [Re: BestSimple]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 1426
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
I'm not familiar with magnetic refrigeration, so I looked it up on Wikipedia/magnetic refrigeration. The general idea doesn't seem to be new. According to the Wikipedia article it is used primarily for laboratory cooling to very low temperatures. The article says
Quote:
The use of this technology for domestic refrigerators though is very remote due to the high efficiency of current Vapor-compression refrigeration cycles, which typically achieve performance coefficients of 60% of that of a theoretical ideal Carnot cycle.

However, I don't see anything in there about using 2 different magnetic materials as you show. This may make it much better, but I'm not sure how your system would work. It is obviously much different from the ones discussed in the Wiki article. Can you provide a better description of how yours works?

Magnetic refrigeration could have many advantages over the methods used in most modern refrigeration and air conditioning systems, but there could be a lot of engineering to be done to make your system work.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

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#41781 - 12/12/11 01:11 AM Re: a new method of magnet refrigeration: just an idea [Re: Bill]
BestSimple Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/11/11
Posts: 5
The method is quite like TEC or TEG.
The magnetic lines of force are through the loop of two pieces of different materials.
Thus the B values are the same but the H values are not the same.
At the joint which the H value increases at magnetic lines direction, heat absorbtion happens.
At the joint which the H value decreases at magnetic lines direction, heat emittion happens.

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#41782 - 12/12/11 02:16 AM Re: a new method of magnet refrigeration: just an idea [Re: BestSimple]
Orac Offline
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Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2140
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Have you tried it yet whistle
_________________________
I hate QM, always wrong, never believe me, sad and broken and now lost credibility and I cry wolf.

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#41783 - 12/12/11 08:59 AM Re: a new method of magnet refrigeration: just an idea [Re: BestSimple]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 1426
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Originally Posted By: BestSimple
The method is quite like TEC or TEG.
The magnetic lines of force are through the loop of two pieces of different materials.
Thus the B values are the same but the H values are not the same.
At the joint which the H value increases at magnetic lines direction, heat absorbtion happens.
At the joint which the H value decreases at magnetic lines direction, heat emittion happens.

Unfortunately I'm not familiar enough with the concept to be able to pick up on the idea from your simple explanation. It is just too simple for me. Can you give a clearer explanation?

Or as Orac suggests, try building a test system. From your simple diagram it looks as though it should be fairly easy to do a proof-of-concept test. I don't see that you need any thing but a couple of pieces of different magnetic materials. You can wind a coil around one of them and use a battery to energize it. Then just check the temperature of the 2 junctions. Any difference in temperature will show that at least the idea works.


Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

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#41789 - 12/12/11 12:52 PM Re: a new method of magnet refrigeration: just an idea [Re: Bill]
Orac Offline
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Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2140
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Hint: Connecting to to an AC power source might be more interesting.
_________________________
I hate QM, always wrong, never believe me, sad and broken and now lost credibility and I cry wolf.

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#41794 - 12/12/11 05:40 PM Re: a new method of magnet refrigeration: just an idea [Re: Orac]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 1426
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Originally Posted By: Orac
Hint: Connecting to to an AC power source might be more interesting.


Well, I can see that, in fact one of the first things I thought of was that an AC source might do some good things, but then it is best to take small steps. Starting out with the simplest design is probably best. After BestSimple finishes that then he can start elaborating on it.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

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#41803 - 12/13/11 10:50 AM Re: a new method of magnet refrigeration: just an idea [Re: BestSimple]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 3542
Hey BestSimple

So youve found a simple way to make a TEG , looks like it should work.

you are getting heat and cold correct?

have you tried to get voltage by heating one end yet.

in essence using the concept as a electricity generator.
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#41807 - 12/13/11 08:58 PM Re: a new method of magnet refrigeration: just an idea [Re: paul]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 1426
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Originally Posted By: paul
have you tried to get voltage by heating one end yet.

in essence using the concept as a electricity generator.


Paul at first this sounds like it might be possible. But then I thought about it and have come up with a problem. Heating one end of the device and cooling the other would produce a magnetic flux through the materials. But it would be a static flux. To induce a current in the coil would require a varying flux. There may be some way around this problem. The first thing I thought of was moving the coil through the magnetic field produced by the device, but that would take some pretty good engineering to make it work. It might be possible, but first I think we need to know if it will really work for heating and cooling.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

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#41808 - 12/13/11 09:36 PM Re: a new method of magnet refrigeration: just an idea [Re: Bill]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2140
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Really it shouldn't take a few minutes.

In the DC supply case you dont have to worry about circulating currents because they will only be transient while power is applied steady state there can be no circulating currents.

So take the orginal drawing as a solid ring grab a hacksaw and cut along the line marked now I have two totally different permeabilities one iron, one air. Does such a setup heat or cool the air.

If you think that the gaps to wide simply take the ring and cut thru to middle so you have one saw blade wide gap .... what happens in that 1 blade wide gap :-)

Air gap transformers are commercially built for certain applications most notably switch mode transformers for a very good reason they limit the saturation of the core.


Edited by Orac (12/13/11 09:43 PM)
_________________________
I hate QM, always wrong, never believe me, sad and broken and now lost credibility and I cry wolf.

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#41809 - 12/13/11 11:00 PM Re: a new method of magnet refrigeration: just an idea [Re: Bill]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 3542
that was quick!

looks like someone struck a nerve , LOL

the image of the cut in half round magnet with a coil wrapped
around one side of the assembly of the two halves is gone.



I was begining to think neo !



_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#41814 - 12/14/11 09:09 AM Re: a new method of magnet refrigeration: just an idea [Re: Orac]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 1426
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Well, cutting a single core in 2 will do what you say, but you will have to insulate it somehow. The air will remove the heat pretty fast. And if you get air movement it will naturally remove the heat even faster. So getting it set up so that the air is contained and insulated may be kind of a problem. I was thinking more along the lines of 2 pieces of ferromagnetic metal, iron and something else. I'm not sure what the something else should be, but whatever it is it should be easy to find. Looking at a list of ferromagnetic materials nickel may be the most common one available. I don't think we would want to start with something that is already magnetized.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

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#41815 - 12/14/11 05:59 PM Re: a new method of magnet refrigeration: just an idea [Re: paul]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 3542
ahhh the image is back , much better.
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#41858 - 12/21/11 03:33 AM Re: a new method of magnet refrigeration: just an idea [Re: BestSimple]
BestSimple Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/11/11
Posts: 5
If the current is AC then there will be no heat effect at all.
Only when the magnet flux is constant to give a magnet drop or rise at the joints to be hot or cold.

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