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TT comments,
Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
Obviously your will power is strong enough to push the ignore button, to ignore what you don't like or prefer in your creation.
I used the ignore button advisedly. It enables me to do a quick check to see if a post might contain some valuable knowledge, or has comments and questions to which I need to respond--as I am now doing.

On the other hand, if I find it is just so much twisted rhetoric and verbiage that makes no sense to me, I can put it on the ignore button.

Note to all: The following revision is for clarity
Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
[Now I, Revlgk, clarify what I should have said: I tried the route of theism--believing in a God who claims he listens to, and answers, all the prayers of his obedient servants--and it didn't work.

Over the decades, the only thing that has worked is WILLPOWER. A recent example: It worked on TT. Which, as the following question with a laugh obviously shows, I said it jokingly. This is why I asked all posters: Did not Ellis mention the miracle? laugh
TT, now you ask
Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
1. In what way was your will power directed toward me?
You also ask:
2.Wouldn't it be beneficial to direct your will power to stop all wars, make the poor rich, or the good people out of bad?
3.To what limits does will extend itself, or is will power unlimited?
Responses by me:
1. In thinking of WILLPOWER/G.O.D.-power, and self-control. The first thing that comes to mind is empathy--entering fully through imagination: I choose (will) to rid myself of egotistic impulses. I also choose to identify myself with persons and causes I support that come to my attention.

2. Agreed!

3. Humanity--a dysfunctional family addicted to power, control and money--after struggling through decades of what I think of as rogue somatology and psychology--has only just now begun come back into harmony. Now, guided by pneumatology, we are ready to know and to explore this greatest human strength--WILLPOWER and its product self-control.

IMHO, with the help of the basic pneumatological tool of self-control, the now and the future can be approached with a progressive mental attitude.

At this very moment, we can begin to rejoice that we have enough self-control to lose what caused us to be dysfunctional: The myths and ignorances which have bound us in the past and the fears we have of the now and the future. Now self-control, the fruit of willpower, gives us the confidence to allow ourselves to be guided by a rational faith, hope and love, into a future that is our to vision and to make into a reality.

TIME FOR REJOICING laugh
As I recall, I was in my early teens when I first heard of, and did some studies on: How powerful the guided and strengthened mind/will can be. It was then called "mentalphysics". Later, in the 1960's, after exploring somatology and psychology, I stumbled on the word, "pneumatology" and learned that Pneuma was the mother of psyche(ology), and soma(tology) before the family-without-a-father went rogue. Now, with the help this new science, we are ready to reunite the family.


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We seem to have drifted quite a long way from the OP and into a discourse on conflicting (?) religious belief systems.

Going nowhere, slowly and laboriously comes to mind.

How about adopting “dog philosophy”: If you can't eat it or hump it ... pee on it and walk away!!!


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Oops! Could I be excommunicated from SAGG for that?


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Originally Posted By: Revlgking

1. In thinking of WILLPOWER/G.O.D.-power, and self-control. The first thing that comes to mind is empathy--entering fully through imagination: I choose (will) to rid myself of egotistic impulses. I also choose to identify myself with persons and causes I support that come to my attention.

Just think. If everyone took their ideas of what ego is, and what is good for them and the world, what would change? Isn't that the current state of the world as we are experiencing it now?
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

3. Humanity--a dysfunctional family addicted to power, control and money--after struggling through decades of what I think of as rogue somatology and psychology--has only just now begun come back into harmony. Now, guided by pneumatology, we are ready to know and to explore this greatest human strength--WILLPOWER and its product self-control.

Just begun? I think the establishment of the first church represented a similar thought in following the example of the humanitarianisms displayed by Jesus whom everyone claimed was the perfect example of God walking.

It's all a matter of perspective isn't it...


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Originally Posted By: Bill S.
1. ... I think we believe what we believe because that is what we need to believe...
2. ... open minded discussion, tends to have the effect of strengthening those beliefs.
3. I think it would be an interesting exercise if Rev and TT were to change sides and each defend the other's viewpoint
Stimulating thoughts, Bill. I respond:

1. Belief? Faith? As I understand it, "believing in God" without evidence, is like having a strong wish--wishful and child-like thinking--that there is a god. It is nothing more than an opinion. Faith has a similar meaning. In this sense of the words: As a unitheist I do not believe, and I have no need to believe, that there is a god, or gods.

THE UNITHEIST THEORY (explanation of G0D)
This theory, which includes the idea of G0D as behind TOE is built on the solid somatological foundation we call evolution. As a theory it definitely does have a role to play in science and stands to be accepted, or rejected.

The physical, mental and spiritual connection came together in the 1930's and 1940's with the mathematical and philosophical writings of A.N. Whitehead, a mathematician, a philosopher and a friend of Bertrand Russell--an atheist in so far as he rejected the god with dimensions, as do unitheists. Interestingly, Whitehead was obviously a unitheist. He collaborated with Russell and wrote PRINCIPLES OF MATHEMATICS.

UNITHEISM AND THE PROCESS THEOLOGY OF A.N. WHITEHEAD
Whitehead then went on to develop process philosophy and theology. Later it was developed by the Rev. Charles Hartshorne and called panentheism. Out of this came the simpler and less-confusing term unitheism (See the group on Facebook, now 40 members, started by Warren Farr, an artist and me just a few weeks ago) http://www.facebook.com/groups/unitheism/

To evolution, unitheism adds the dimensions of mind and spirit. And why not?

Along with a new physics it is apparent that a new psychology--especially since the re-discovery of pneumatology (William James, Karl Jung and the like)--is pointing the way to our evolving, mentally and spiritually and not just bilogically.

To those who say: "I believe in God.", I say: I respect your beliefs as I do your opinions.

However, if you expect me to take them as evidence of a valid and serious theory (explanation)--like, for example, the theory of evolution--you will need to present your thesis, do the research and experiments necessary, and publish the evidence, the proofs, for all to see.

2. When I was very young, I believed, very gingerly (because of the pain and trauma I suffered in my early childhood), in what I was told was called God.

When I lucked out and got to university, open-minded discussion eventually led me stop believing and to start theorizing (looking for explanations) to find the best possible explanation for the existence of what we call the cosmos and all that is within it. I am very interested in following those who--using the LHC--large hydron collider, at the CERN--center for nucelar research (on the Swiss/France border)--are theorizing about the TOE--theory of everything.

See the book, THE UNIVERSE ON A T-SHIRT, by Dan Falk. http://www.danfalk.ca/universe-on-a-t-shirt-the-quest-for-the-theory-of-everything.

In my opinion, the TOE and G0D, now in the form of a company, G0D & Co., unLTD is in the business of understanding the nature and function of chaos, out of which it has already demonstrated--just take look at the earth and the cosmos--that mass is possible.

Anyone--with even a quantum of agape-based love, or good willpower, to contribute--is now welcome to join G0D & Co., unLTD. in the eternal process of creation.

3. Defend TT's position? I wonder why he has stopped signing in as a genius? Other than that, I have very little idea what his position really is.

TT, are you connected with any kind of Christian group--large or small? What is your main ideology (set of doctrine, body of opinions)? I assume that Ellis still is an open-minded atheist, eh Ellis? What of the other readers?

Me? I repeat: I am a unitheistic theorist. My empathy, agape-love--good willpower to all.


Last edited by Revlgking; 01/07/12 09:48 PM.

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FROM WARREN FARR AND LINDSAY G. KING--FACEBOOK

"Unitheism is the belief that ultimate reality is encountered in life and nature, and to the extent truth is known all faiths are one, in cosmic mode expanding to encompass all positive life systems."


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.................................Alfred North Whitehead (1861-1947)

William Ernest Hocking was a member of the Department of Philosophy at Harvard which invited Alfred North Whitehead, the British mathematician and philosopher of natural sciences, to come to these shores in 1924.

He received word that he was being asked to teach not mathematics—which had been the subject he had taught for 40 years—but philosophy, the field of his concentrated thought expressed in such of his books as The Philosophy of Physical Nature . To his wife, Whitehead exclaimed, “There is nothing in the world that I would rather do.”
When they arrived in the Harvard Square community in 1924, an astonishing transformation took place with respect to his pro ductivity. He delivered a series of Lowell Lectures on Science and the Modern World in 1925. Following this classic work, he delivered in the very next year Lowell Lectures on Religion in the Making.

This little book abounds with aphoristic wisdom and insight, containing phrases such as the movement from God the Void, to God the Enemy, to God the Companion. The following year saw the publication of Symbolism: Its Meaning and Effect . Only two years later, in 1929, his magnum opus arrived: Process and Reality: An Essay in Cosmology . In the very same year, two other volumes by him were published: The Function of Reason is one; the other is a gathering of essays on The Aims of Education . Other works followed.

Born in 1861, Alfred was the son of an Anglican clergyman who was head of a private school. He was educated in the classical mode: ancient languages, classical authors, mathematics and the Bible, which was read in Greek. In addition to his formal courses at Trinity College, University of Cambridge, his higher education was vigorously advanced by membership in an undergraduate group called The Apostles, which engaged in incessant conversation on matters pertaining to the whole of cultural life. Started by Tennyson in 1820, The Apostles met at 10 on Saturday evening and continued to anytime Sunday morning.

Whitehead’s marriage to Evelyn Willoughby added immensely to his aesthetic sensitivity; she taught him that beauty is the aim of exis tence. A biography of Bertrand Russell describes Russell’s enduring but unrequited love for Evelyn Whitehead. The Whiteheads had three chil dren, one of whom was shot down during World War I. Their daughter long was a familiar sight in Harvard Square. The other son taught at the Harvard Business School, and Mrs. T. North Whitehead, his wife, is a person with whom I worked as a member and officer of the Cam bridge Historical Society.

Alfred North Whitehead’s thought, as seen in his published writ ings, falls into three main periods. Mathematics and logic engaged his primary attention from the end of the nineteenth century to World War I. He wrote A Treatise on Universal Algebra , then the monumental Principia Mathematica with Russell—“a landmark in the study of logic”—as well as a popular University Library Introduction to Mathematics .

From 1917 until he left for Harvard, Whitehead’s focus was the philosophy of physical nature. He wrote The Organization of Thought: Educational and Scientific, An Enquiry Concerning the Principles of Natural Knowledge, The Concept of Nature , and The Principle of Relativity .
His third period, the Harvard years, dealt with cosmology, meta physics and civilization. What Whitehead’s thought has contributed to civilization may be surmised by the concluding sentence of Charles Hartshorne’s interpretation of Whitehead’s metaphysics:

“The basic principles of our knowledge and experience, physical, biological, sociological, aesthetic, religious, are in this philosophy given an intellectual integration such as only a thousand years or ten thou sand years of further reflection and inquiry seem likely to exhaust or adequately evaluate, but whose wide relevance and, in many respects, at least comparative accuracy some of us think can already be dis cerned.”

As you contemplate the wisdom offered to us by Alfred North Whitehead, listen to a few of his bold words concerning God:

[Very UNITHEISTIC]:
[size]God is the ideal companion, the mirror which discloses to every creature its own greatness.

God is not to be treated as an exception to all metaphysical principles, invoked to save their collapse.
God is their chief exemplification.

God is the beginning and the end.
God is dipolar.

It is as true to say that God is one and the World many, as that the World is one and God many.
It is as true to say that God creates the World, as that the World creates God.

God is the great companion—the fellow-sufferer who understands.

We find here the final application of the doctrine of objective immortality. Our immediate actions perish and yet live for evermore.

God is in the world, or nowhere, creating continually in us and around us. This creative principle is everywhere, in animate and so-called inanimate matter, in the ether, water, earth, human hearts.

Creation is a continuing process. Insofar as we partake of this creative process we partake of the divine, of God, and that participation is our immortality.

Our true destiny as cocreator in the universe is our dignity and grandeur.

Last edited by Revlgking; 01/07/12 10:36 PM.

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What is 'open- mindedness'? Am I open-minded about the existence of God? Probably not. I don't believe that there is a god so I am not open-minded about it. If I were I would, as I have said many times, be an agnostic. I am tolerant of the beliefs, or lack thereof, in others and do not seek to convert them to my point of view, but I prefer my own!

As I result of that position I am not interested in the curlicues and intricacies of the process of religious argument. The debating points of deities, angels on pins and theists and all the other myriad of differences in 'isms' come from religions and I do not find a need to believe in any of them. I find reading about religion fascinating but I am not open-minded about belief. I am not a believer.

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Originally Posted By: Revlgking

3. Defend TT's position? I wonder why he has stopped signing in as a genius? Other than that, I have very little idea what his position really is.

That would be obvious.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

TT, are you connected with any kind of Christian group--large or small? What is your main ideology (set of doctrine, body of opinions)? I assume that Ellis still is an open-minded atheist, eh Ellis? What of the other readers?

I'm connected with all that is.


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From TT I hear
Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
... That (I, RevLGK, have little idea what TT's position really is) would be obvious.
TT, it seems, has given up claiming he is a genius. To me, this sounds like a good idea.

Then he adds: "I'm connected with all that is." I could be wrong, but this sounds to me like the starting point of understanding the theory of unitheism.


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Words I hear from Ellis
Originally Posted By: Ellis
... I am not open-minded about the existence of God ... I am tolerant of the beliefs, or lack thereof, in others...do not seek to convert them to my point of view, but I prefer my own!
... I find reading about religion fascinating, but I am not open-minded about believing in a god. I am not a believer.
I accept what you say and agree with the point you make. I, too, have come to a place reached long ago where, without strong evidence to the contrary, I have no intention ever believing in the god illusion. I associate such a 'belief' with wishful thinking.

However, I have enough personal experience and evidence in the practical results of willpower to continue to explore the theory of unitheism, which includes willpower.


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Arriving in LA on a high profile visit, a bishop was surrounded by reporters. One asked: Have you come to see the nightclubs? The bishop replied: Are there any nightclubs?

The following morning’s papers carried the headlines:

Bishop’s first question: “Are there any nightclubs”

Carefully read the following quotes, and tell me if you thing my feeling of empathy with that bishop is misplaced.

Quote:
….even in what purports to be open minded discussion, tends to have the effect of strengthening those beliefs.


Quote:
... open minded discussion, tends to have the effect of strengthening those beliefs.


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Quote:
Then he adds: "I'm connected with all that is." I could be wrong, but this sounds to me like the starting point of understanding the theory of unitheism.


I think you are absolutely right there, Rev, you could be wrong! laugh


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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
From TT I hear
Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
... That (I, RevLGK, have little idea what TT's position really is) would be obvious.
TT, it seems, has given up claiming he is a genius. To me, this sounds like a good idea.

Then he adds: "I'm connected with all that is." I could be wrong, but this sounds to me like the starting point of understanding the theory of unitheism.
I still see the signature at the bottom of my posts. If you don't, then I guess it might be a relief to those who find it an affront to their measure of worth.

Unitheism as you mention is the theory/belief of union with God. An ism... What is superior to theory and isms, is the actual union or Being... where you are "THAT"
"I am That". tat tvam asi or "Thou are that", These are called Mahavakyas or statements of Truth in Sanskrit. The living embodiment of that which was eluded to when Jesus made the statement "I and my Father are one." "What the Father sees in me I see in the Father."

That living experience preceded all Christian faiths, or faith of any name, in their ideals and isms. It is the reality of what Bills signature (the quote from the Gita written several thousand years before Christianity emerged as a religion) is pointing toward. The human experience gave testimony to its reality which later became religious belief, doctrine or a body of opinion by those who imagined what was described but failed to draw the imagination into experience.

The difference between religious isms, ideology, doctrines or bodies of opinion being that the underlying reality is not hidden like it is in theory. It is the very existence that all that is, is... and is the foundation of all experience. That is what I experience as myself, and all that I experience is a reflection of that...
It has been, and is.. the stable unchanging foundation of all my changing thoughts feelings and actions for all of my lifetimes.


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Is there a way to create a custom avatar on this site?


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Looking at the recent posting history I find myself wondering if RAGG (religion) or even GAGG (God) might be candidates for replacing SAGG.

I acknowledge my contribution to this situation, and in an attempt to redress the balance I withdraw, at least temporarily, from this thread, and will perhaps give some thought to starting another of a more scientific nature.

As a parting consideration I leave you with the questions:

Should religions carry a government health warning?

Should churches bear a notice that says “BEWARE OF THE GOD”?

Just a thought?


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Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
... Unitheism as you mention is the theory/belief of union with God.
Not quite true. The quote you mentioned comes from Warren Farr's words on Facebook. And, as a unitheist, he has the freedom to use his own words. They are not my words.

NO DOGMA INTENDED
At this point, my theory/explanation of G0D is as follows: In my humble opinion (IMHO) G0D is the sum total of that which is physical and metaphysical and is powered by willpower--the greatest human strength.

TT, if you know that you have what you call...
Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
What is superior to theory and isms, is the actual union or Being... where you are "THAT" "I am That". ... "... the stable unchanging foundation of all my changing thoughts feelings and actions for all of my lifetimes
All I can say is: Name it what you will, it sounds like unitheism to me.
Meanwhile, I think that, for now, I will follow the example of Bill S: I will absent myself from this thread and, maybe, even go slow in the Philosophy of Religions ... thread which, thanks to all involved, now has over 3, 200, 000 hits.
One final note: With help of the book, WILLPOWER, by Baumeister and Tierney, it looks like 'willpower' has now become a legitimate science. If so, I for one say Thank G0D, president of G.0.D & Co., UnLimited.

Last edited by Revlgking; 01/08/12 10:55 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Bill S.
... As a parting consideration I leave you with the questions:

Should religions carry a government health warning?
Yes! The warning could be: "Beware of false theocratic, and definitely undemocratic religions.

False religions like to use false names under the general headings of: Judaeo/Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Secularism and the like.

FALSE RELIGIONS ARE ALL UNDEMOCRATIC AND THEOCRATIC
You will recognize false religions more by what they do than what they say they believe. The leaders are all worshippers of the gods of Power, Control, and Money, which they advocate must be in the hands of the few. The many are expected to obey, pray and pay.

Churches should be required to post this on their church signs: "BE AWARE, USE YOUR G0D-LIKE WILLPOWER! ASK QUESTIONS”
Thanks for you stimulus, Bill S!


Last edited by Revlgking; 01/08/12 11:41 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
... Unitheism as you mention is the theory/belief of union with God.
Not quite true. The quote you mentioned comes from Warren Farr's words on Facebook. And, as a unitheist, he has the freedom to use his own words. They are not my words.

They were the words you used in your post. If that was not what you were intending to convey perhaps you should not quote others as you in dialogue..
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

At this point, my theory/explanation of G0D is as follows: In my humble opinion (IMHO) G0D is the sum total of that which is physical and metaphysical and is powered by willpower--the greatest human strength.

God then without human intervention is powerless and without substance. Basically what you are saying is God is the sum total of human belief in reality, and that a god that is not democratically created or worshipped is not God.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

TT, if you know that you have what you call...
Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
What is superior to theory and isms, is the actual union or Being... where you are "THAT" "I am That". ... "... the stable unchanging foundation of all my changing thoughts feelings and actions for all of my lifetimes
All I can say is: Name it what you will, it sounds like unitheism to me.

Well you believe God is human willpower. That is not what underlies belief or humanity or the universe.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Meanwhile, I think that, for now, I will follow the example of Bill S: I will absent myself from this thread and, maybe, even go slow in the Philosophy of Religions ... thread which, thanks to all involved, now has over 3, 200, 000 hits.

With very few finding interest enough to participate, other than to speak of the weather and sex manuals. (Bills most recent post there...)


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My pug is called Will. 'Nuff said!

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