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#39647 - 08/21/11 10:50 AM Time
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 3541



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYiahoYfPGk

light enters a prism , and is filtered via the prism's resistance of light as the light moves through the prism.

what we see exiting the prism are the individual speeds of visible light.

some faster some slower.





there was a Time when the republican Party had patriotic principles.



The PROTECTIVE TARIFF Platform
Protection to our TRADES and INDUSTRY
Protection to our FARMS and MINES

I suppose Time changes everything.

Time has degraded the Original Republican values and now the only
thing they protect is.

Protection to our tax breaks and tax cuts to our rich

Time changes me , but I cant change Time ?
















_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
Of Interest?
#39648 - 08/21/11 11:44 AM Re: Time [Re: paul]
Bill S. Offline
Megastar

Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 2962
Loc: Essex, UK
You caught me there, Paul. Just for a moment I thought you had stepped away from American politics!

BTW, are you sure they had patriotic principles, or were they just saying that?
_________________________
There never was nothing.

Top
#39649 - 08/21/11 12:25 PM Re: Time [Re: Bill S.]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 3541
Protectionism was a device that Protected the Nations economies from the greed of the rich.

Knowing that greed could easily remove a Nations Prosperity through greedy trade practices by the rich.

so yes , I believe that way back then the Republicans were patriotic and I would call them Americans.

today I would call the republicans several choice names which should be tattooed on their foreheads and the only reason I would say they are Americans is because they live here.

But these days I certainly would not even jokingly call them patriotic.

http://drpinna.com/economic-rip-tide-chapter-two-2-4113

Quote:
NEW LAWS

As manufacturing was shipped overseas and the products returned to the U.S. and Europe, a problem arose: Tariffs.

The entire world up until the 1960's had established laws to protect their domestic industry. This set of laws was known as Protectionism.

The laws basically stated that if a product was not manufactured within a country, that country had the right to apply a tax to the product manufactured abroad. This tax was called a Tariff and all countries used them. The Money Managers knew they had to change the concept of Protectionism. They approached the problem in two ways:


Quote:
1. Convince the public that Protectionism was bad, and reduced jobs. “We are in A Global Economy, they told the public. A Global Economy makes more work for everybody!”


well it certainly made more work for everybody in the country that they support , but made less work in their own country.

Quote:
2. They went to the politicians, money in hand, and had all the tariffs eliminated.


maybe they should run for office in china , but then they wouldnt be as effective destroying America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariffs_in_United_States_history


Quote:
The GOP under Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush abandoned the protectionist ideology, and came out against quotas and in favor of the GATT/WTO policy of minimal economic barriers to global trade. Free trade with Canada came about as a result of the Canada-U.S. Free Trade Agreement of 1987, which led in 1994 to the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). It was based on President George H. W. Bush's plan to enlarge the scope of the market for American firms to include Canada and Mexico. US President Bill Clinton, with strong Republican support, pushed NAFTA through Congress over the vehement objection of labor unions.


Notice the republican's were not against the free trade.
I would like to find out how many Democrat's were against it.
and how many democrats were for it.

look at the economic situation in almost every nation of the world , look at the riots , the starvation , and see the results of greed.

if this free trade crap was set in place to help people less fortunate then why are there 600,000 children starving to death in africa today...

why are the chinese building huge cities that they know nobody can afford to live in?

there is one thing I know for sure, the free trade agreements are not cut into stone and even if they were a stone can be broken.

if our membership in the WTO means the slow destruction of ourselves then I say lets dont pay our dues and get kicked out for the good of mankind.







_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#39655 - 08/21/11 06:26 PM Re: Time [Re: paul]
Bill S. Offline
Megastar

Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 2962
Loc: Essex, UK
I can only blame myself - I did ask. smile
_________________________
There never was nothing.

Top
#39658 - 08/21/11 08:03 PM Re: Time [Re: Bill S.]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 3541
LOL
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#39661 - 08/22/11 04:56 AM Re: Time [Re: paul]
kallog Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: paul
LOL


You keep forgetting the wonderful things it has done to China. The gains there far outweigh the losses in America. You still hold the idea that Americans are God's chosen people. You're just God's richest people, that's all.

Also, did you ever wonder what happened to people who lost their shoe-making jobs? Most of them didn't stay unemployed for life! Somehow, mysteriously and invisibly, they survived, even prospered. They just aren't making shoes anymore.

Top
#39668 - 08/22/11 12:28 PM Re: Time [Re: kallog]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 3541
Quote:
You keep forgetting the wonderful things it has done to China.


I know.
WONDERFUL THINGS

before


and now


Quote:
The gains there far outweigh the losses in America.


before in china



and now


the U.S. before


and now


Quote:
You still hold the idea that Americans are God's chosen people.


Are you saying that the Chinese people are Gods chosen people?

Quote:
You're just God's richest people, that's all.


Thats because we didnt have republicans in control for a long time , but give it more time , a few more decades of stupid republican politics will erase the centuries of American accomplishments.

Quote:
Also, did you ever wonder what happened to people who lost their shoe-making jobs?


we had a large textile industry at one time , and I remember the people who worked there for minimum wage did do a good bit of work , but the thing that stood out the most was the fear of loosing their job.

you see there were businesses closing their doors and moving their businesses to china and mexico , because they could not compete with the prices that the companies that had already moved to china was selling their equivalent products for.

thanks to the stupid republican politicians and their desire to help the rich.

Quote:
Most of them didn't stay unemployed for life! Somehow, mysteriously and invisibly, they survived,


we didnt have jobs for those textile workers to fill , so they drew their unemployment until it ran out , then they got on SSi and there they remained.

on SSi, on welfare , on disability, nothing mysterious or invisible about that , they survived thanks to the programs that Democrats set in place to ensure the health and welfare of American Citizens.

and people being on SSi is something the stupid republicans complain about all the time even though they created the job void.

another thing the stupid republicans complain about is the cost of welfare programs , the cost , I believe that since it was the rich that caused this cost the rich should be the ones to pay for the cost , the cost.

not the Middle Class who just so happen to be the ones who are employing Americans more than the rich.


Quote:
even prospered.


If you call having to sell the home you had been paying for because your SSi wasnt enough to pay the mortgage , and settling for a no work less income life prospering then you have lost your mind as did many of those who could no longer find work.

Quote:
They just aren't making shoes anymore.


there not really making anything but credit card payments and utility payments and rent payments and if there is enough left over they buy what groceries they can afford with the government assistance checks they get and their credit cards.


If I was an Anti-American commie lover I would vote republican myself.

_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#39677 - 08/22/11 09:06 PM Re: Time [Re: paul]
Bill S. Offline
Megastar

Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 2962
Loc: Essex, UK
Looking at it from across the Atlantic I find myself wondering why so many Americans vote for the Republicans, some of them must not be rich. Then I think "we have a Conservative Government", and I stop wondering.
_________________________
There never was nothing.

Top
#39694 - 08/23/11 10:15 AM Re: Time [Re: paul]
kallog Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: paul

Are you saying that the Chinese people are Gods chosen people?

Look at it like this. If Idaho suddenly developed a huge industry making furniture very cheaply. And other states' furniture makers couldn't compete. Would that be bad for America? Should trade across state boarders be restricted by tariffs?

Or would be it better to let all people in the country enjoy the advantages of cheap Idaho furniture if they want?

You've consistently ignored that side of it. Cheaper goods means you can get more with less money! You don't want that. You want Americans to be stuck in a backward economy where people can hardly afford computers and video cameras because they spent all their money on overpriced shoes and cooking utensils. Americans would look up to UK and Germany as the economic winners, where everyone's rich. Young people would dream of emigrating to those successful countries to enjoy the better life.



Quote:
you see there were businesses closing their doors and moving their businesses to china and mexico , because they could not compete with the prices that the companies


So unemployment has been steadily rising since then? And it was consistently lower before that? Are you sure?

Top
#39698 - 08/23/11 11:19 AM Re: Time [Re: kallog]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 3541
Quote:
If Idaho suddenly developed a huge industry making furniture very cheaply.


you mean like the cheap furniture you can get from china?
the kind that you need to replace every year if you dont actually sit on it.

maybe we should carry that one step further.

Suppose We produce portable cardboard homes for the homeless Americans who no longer have any type of life thanks to the stupid republicans desire to help the rich.



this way they could fold up their home so that the stupid american republican voters wont have to be troubled with seeing poor Americans

Thats really not a bad idea kallog , the homeless could build cardboard homes from the endless supply of cardboard packaging that comes from products from china.

they are already familiar with being homeless and they could sell pre-fabbed homes for those entering the homeless marketplace , perhaps the homes could even come with tips for keeping warm such as stuffing shipping peanuts and bubble wrap in their clothing , etc.

perhaps they will be the next middle class.

Quote:
And other states' furniture makers couldn't compete.


I dont really see a problem with competition , there will be plenty of cardboard available in each state of the dissolving union as the republicans tighten their economic grip on Americans forcing them to abandon all hope of labor unions , and health care , and to accept lower wages that would be more competitive with wages in china.

so each state will have a tried and true pool of homeless educated entrepreneurs fully capable of providing the needs of the those entering the homeless market.

Quote:
Should trade across state boarders be restricted by tariffs?


No way , this United States is United , still , believe it or not.

if a state cannot compete with another state, given that the states have similar miminum wages set between them , then the reason for the business in the non-competitive state to be non - competitive must lie within its organization and its buisness practices.

no tarrifs between the states - no contracts between the states to exclude other states from competition.

Quote:
Or would be it better to let all people in the country enjoy the advantages of cheap Idaho furniture if they want?


then you would only be building up a economy in Idaho and
since Idahoans would be the only people able to afford the cheap Idahoan furniture that would remove the supply of cardboard that would normaly be found in the other states
and that would cause expensive but necessary shipping of the cardboard to the other states who are manufacturing the cardboard homes for those Idahoans who have recently entered the homeless market and have been pushed out because you can only have so many workers in a single state that produces cheap furniture and the rich state of Idaho would not want to take care of its fallen citizens using the Idahoan corporations capital.

Quote:
Cheaper goods means you can get more with less money!


AH , theres the catch , cheaper goods also means you will get less money.

you have to get less money because the goods keep getting cheaper and cheaper due to competition , this means that your cheaper goods are costing your children their future.

Quote:
You want Americans to be stuck in a backward economy where people can hardly afford computers and video cameras because they spent all their money on overpriced shoes and cooking utensils.


you mean like the economy were in right now dont you , like paying $180.00 for the new style nikes?

I used to earn $2.15 an hour minimum wage and I could buy the best pair of shoes for less than $10.00 at any department store.

that means that minimum wage would make me work apx 5 hours to buy the most expensive pair of shoes.

now in order to buy the most expensive nikes $180.00 I would have to be getting $36.00 minimum wage.

the backward economy your speaking of is the result of free trade and inflation.

and the inflation is the result of free trade.

all of Americas problems are the result of free trade with countries that have lower wages than American minimum wages.

can your beloved chinese build all the worlds products paying its slave laborers $7.25 U.S. minimum wages?

and Im not talking about the chinese equivalent of $0.30 an hour either.

Quote:
Americans would look up to UK and Germany as the economic winners, where everyone's rich.


Really , so the U.K. and Germany are immune to the greed disease?

according to the news England and possibly even Germany are in financial straights , hopefully you guys dont get involved in another war again , we have already kicked englands ass
once and saved its ass twice because of your inability to govern yourselves and possibly your political stance.

so you get in a fix again and you may just be annexed into china because we wont be capable of saving your asses again.

you just might have that bright future as a chinese laborer in your future earning that $0.30 U.S. an hour.
Im sure you would be pleased with that outcome as defensive as you seem to be of free trade.

Quote:
Young people would dream of emigrating to those successful countries to enjoy the better life.




they probably would !
But is this to keep people in or out?


china doesnt have a large population so it should be a simple task for those dreamers to walk around that wall so they can earn the higher wages and live the chinese dream.


Quote:
So unemployment has been steadily rising since then? And it was consistently lower before that? Are you sure?


I cant find a chart that shows the true disposition of former workers in the U.S. but heres a chart that shows the increase of people as they enter the SSI market.




This must be the chart that those who cannot find a job in a jobless environment end up on.

the above SSI chart is 10 years old and does not show the massive results from the gw bush recession but if you draw an imaginary line from 1991 - 2001 then continue to 2011 the chart should show apx 10 million on SSI.

still it is only a fraction of our workforce of apx 130 million with 11% of those showing up on the unemployment charts.

which means we have a working workforce that is transitioning from industry into other forms of work such as working at wallmart or mcdonnalds or any of the new restuarants.

and we have apx 14 million workers on unemployment.
and apx 10 million or possibly more on SSI

which brings our workforce down to apx 110 million from the pre - bush eras.

or is that errors?

and those who are unable to find work after their unemployment runs out will move to the SSI chart.

we cant continue to loose jobs and it seems the rich are not wanting to provide a fix for their mistakes so a really good thing that could help the job situation in the U.S. would be for the Government to take the money they are giving the rich corporations and stop the tax cuts to the rich and use that money to give to small businesses in the form of loans and grants to get the people off of unemployment before they become dissabled.

heres another chart that shows the increase of people on SSI
since 2001



Let me add that alot of the people on the SSI charts are working , they have a job , the job that they now have just dont pay the bills.

I imagine alot of those people work at wallmart and the many resturants that have popped up in the U.S. in the past decade or so since the republicans have had their way with us.

BTW , corporations are not people , corporations are simply owned by people that can afford to buy shares in that corporation.

if a person buys a share of stock for $0.10 a share and that share of stock rises in value to $100.00 then that person has a capital gain or income as the price of that stock rises.

theres really no difference between a working class person putting money in a savings account that earns interest and a billionaire buying stocks that pay dividends and / or has a rise in value.

if you gain money in your savings account you are charged taxes on that gain , so should the rich be charged on their income gains from buying and selling stock.

if he holds that stock and it gains in value he should pay taxes on that gain come tax time.

when he sales that stock and recieves that gain he should pay taxes on that income.

just like a working class person pays when he gets income by working for it.

income tax means income tax , rich or poor it has the same definition.

the U.S. has been giving the rich tax breaks and tax cuts year after year in the hopes that those dollars would bring new jobs to the U.S. and not just new jobs but more jobs but that has only increased the number of jobs in other countries.









_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#39707 - 08/23/11 07:55 PM Re: Time [Re: paul]
kallog Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: paul

you mean like the cheap furniture you can get from china?
the kind that you need to replace every year if you dont actually sit on it.

Nevermind. You don't get it.


Quote:

but that has only increased the number of jobs in other countries.

Again. You are only concerned with Americans. These are people who you just explained can get FREE MONEY from the government to live on FOREVER. Most people in the world don't have that luxury - they have to work or die. But somehow foreigners aren't real people to you. You're simply a bad person with tribal thinking. But it's OK, you enjoy the remains of your collapsing country, make sure you never forget it's the greatest, even when the crumbling office buildings are filled with squatters and the electricity doesn't work anymore.

Top
#39709 - 08/23/11 08:34 PM Re: Time [Re: kallog]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 3541
Dont worry , I wont forget it.

I've already forgotten how to enter a walmart.
But that was on purpose, LOL.
now thats progress.



Americans are just blinded by tricksters who only tell the surface of the problems and never tell the underlying reasons of the problems.



But that wont last much longer.




_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#39741 - 08/25/11 09:31 AM Re: Time [Re: paul]
kallog Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: paul
Americans are just blinded by tricksters who only tell the surface of the problems and never tell the underlying reasons of the problems.


I wouldn't blame them for being "tricksters". News channels won't play boring complicated monologues. Viewers won't have the attention span, interest or intellect to understand them. TV is targeted to what they used to call "the lowest common denominator". It has to be, or it wouldn't be popular and advertisers would stop funding it.

So you should blame the non-thinking American public.

Top
#39747 - 08/25/11 05:16 PM Re: Time [Re: kallog]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 3541
Quote:
So you should blame the non-thinking American public.


I only blame the public voters if they vote for a republican
or one of the independent republican clones.

if you went to a school that only taught english then it would be up to you to learn another language.

you wouldnt know how to speak or read chinese.

if you visited a chinese person who only knew the chinese language then neither of you would understand what the other was saying.

if you are a republican and you only listen to hannity , limbaugh , the fox news network , pat roberson , etc , etc , you will only hear how good republicans are for the country.

how giving the rich tax cuts and tax breaks will bring jobs to the U.S.

Well , where are all the jobs for all the previous tax cuts and tax breaks?

you never really hear that trade is the real underlying problem that has and continues to destroy our economy and weaken our government.

the only person I have ever heard say anything about it was
Donald Trump ! a republican.


so you cant really blame the public because they are un-informed but you can blame the politicians who never breath a word about it.

every time they get in front of a microphone or camera they have the opportunity to tell the truth about our economy but fail to do so.

instead they use hundreds of pieces of the results of the underlying problem to claim the gov is spending too much
on the public and needs to spend less on the public and give more to the rich.

So the rich can bring jobs to the U.S. just like all the jobs they have brought in the past because of all the previous tax cuts and tax breaks.


Where are they?


_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#39748 - 08/25/11 07:59 PM Re: Time [Re: paul]
kallog Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: paul
I only blame the public voters if they vote for a republican
or one of the independent republican clones.

Would a 1-party system suit you better?

Quote:

you never really hear that trade is the real underlying problem that has and continues to destroy our economy and so you cant really blame the public because they are un-informed but you can blame the politicians who never breath a word about it.

Politicians have to say what the public wants to hear. If they say something too honest then they won't get voted in. The system works that way because most of the public isn't able to make decisions based on reasons, but only based on prejudice and the appearance/style of the politician.

Top
#39755 - 08/26/11 09:16 AM Re: Time [Re: kallog]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 3541
Quote:
Would a 1-party system suit you better?


Myself YES , make that a Democratic party Please.

One that cares more about the people of their country than the corporations of their country.

Quote:
Politicians have to say what the public wants to hear.


Yea like the recent prediction and promise that she could lower gas prices to $2.00 a gallon.

HAH , like the rich would oblige her and loose a penny
simply because she would be the president.

but suppose she could lower gas prices by giving the oil companies a hundred billion dollars more in tax breaks and pat on the back recovery from funding her campaign.

But did she say how long the gas prices would stay at $2.00?

1 second?

then back to the post katrina prices and more!

We in the U.S. had better hope that Irene doesnt brush up against any oil refineries and hurt its feelings or the oil industry will cry about it and jack the price of gas up to $5.00 a gallon and end up with billions more in emergency relief before its all over.

Quote:
but only based on prejudice and the appearance/style of the politician.


your talking about the republicans , Democrats base their vote on intelligent reasons.

as in who might be the better candidate for OUR country , not as in who might be the better candidate for other countries such as china.


Democrats look beyond appearances and decide who will get their vote by the candidates values and compare the candidates values with their own values.

Quote:
If they say something too honest then they won't get voted in.


Donald Trump told the story like it is.

You could call me a hardcore Democrat , but Democrat is only a name that describes a political party and their values.

If Donald Trump ran for office under the purple rhinoceros political party and I thought he would stop free trade , I would give him my vote and support.

or any other politician for that matter.
because I believe that free trade is our ONLY problem.

fix that and all the surface problems caused by free trade will disappear.





_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#39758 - 08/26/11 09:52 AM Re: Time [Re: paul]
Bill S. Offline
Megastar

Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 2962
Loc: Essex, UK
"Gas prices to $2.00 a gallon".

I think most people in UK would rejoice at £2.00 a gallon; and we're the poor relatives!
_________________________
There never was nothing.

Top
#39759 - 08/26/11 10:25 AM Re: Time [Re: Bill S.]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 3541
Quote:
I think most people in UK would rejoice at £2.00 a gallon


how much taxes are you paying on a gallon?

in the U.S. its apx $0.50 a gallon.

because the market price of gasoline today is only $2.85 U.S.
I think.

so add the market price to the taxes and then throw in about a dime for the rest.

funny how a entire 42 gallon barrel of oil can be lifted out of the ground for the same price today as it could ten years ago.

maybe $3.00 a barrel , thats apx 20 gal of gasoline for
a whopping $0.14 a gallon oil co cost.

then add apx $0.03 more cents per gal for refining.

and I think that includes transportation cost and all other cost.

its everything above the $0.17 a gallon that could be considered profit and of course pocket lining.






_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#39774 - 08/27/11 09:06 PM Re: Time [Re: paul]
kallog Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: paul
because the market price of gasoline today is only $2.85 U.S.
so add the market price to the taxes and then throw in


Go to the table and click the header to sort by price.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_and_diesel_usage_and_pricing

The list of countries with cheaper petrol than the US is a who's-who of the 3rd world. While, most of Europe tops the charts. So stop moaning, you have it great!

Quote:

because I believe that free trade is our ONLY problem.

Of course. Political idealists always believe doing things their way would magically make everything perfect. But the history of the world shows that more trade = better economy. You're still forgetting all the good things you get from access to those cheap goods, as well as the pressure of competition to improve local production.

Having more people working as process operators and farmers takes valuable labor away from more productive jobs. Where would the high tech companies be without abundant workers and cheap imports? If you're not sure, look to the more protectionist countries to see how successful they are.

Protectionism is to protect industries that you rely on. America doesn't rely on mass production of low-cost consumer goods. It's got better things to do with all those well educated people.

Top
#39840 - 08/30/11 09:45 PM Re: Time [Re: kallog]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 3541
Quote:
this would give a January 2011 taxed price of £1.256 per litre (£5.71 per imperial gallon or £4.75 per U.S. gallon) - that is equivalent to a tax rate of 175%.


WOW !! 175% tax rate.

$4.75 BP = $ 7.76 USD.

So your government charges you guys $7.76 taxes
on a $8.06 purchase of gasoline , a single gallon of gas.

that is really sad , do you guys get any representation along with all that taxation?

I have seen a few items on tv lately asking if the U.S. might benefit if we had a parliament , LOL.

Yea , we need a parliament like we need a hole in our bank accounts.








_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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