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#32802 - 12/03/09 05:25 AM What is the material basis of consciousness ?’
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 415
What is the material basis of consciousness ?’

I think : the Vacuum and Electron are the
material basis of Consciousness.
Why?
Because now nobody knows what the Vacuum and Electron are.
1.
" The problem of the exact description of vacuum, in my opinion,
is the basic problem now before physics. Really, if you can’t correctly
describe the vacuum, how it is possible to expect a correct description
of something more complex? "
/ Paul Dirac ./
2.
You know, it would be sufficient to really understand the electron.
/ Albert Einstein./
#
Tell me what an electron is and I'll then tell you everything.
/ Somebody./
== .
And I think, when we understand the Vacuum and Electron
we will know the Ultimate Nature of Reality, it means we
will know the material basis of consciousness too.
== .
Best wishes.
Israel Sadovnik. Socratus.

Top
.
#32803 - 12/03/09 06:38 AM Re: What is the material basis of consciousness ?’ [Re: socratus]
eccles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 149
No doubt you will find "answers" by wading through the following 5179 papers compiled by Chalmers !

http://consc.net/online

Some would argue that "materiality" is an epiphenomenon of "consciousness" NOT vice versa !

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#32808 - 12/03/09 05:58 PM Re: What is the material basis of consciousness ?’ [Re: socratus]
Zephir Offline
Superstar

Registered: 07/01/08
Posts: 498
Originally Posted By: socratus
What is the material basis of consciousness ?
In my opinion it's a soliton waves inside of human brain, which are spreading like selfreinforcing wave packets. Do you know, why human nerves have microtubules inside it, in simmilar way, like optical cables?


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#32822 - 12/04/09 01:02 PM Re: What is the material basis of consciousness ?’ [Re: Zephir]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 415
We have one brain which works dualistically
according to the Quantum theory of Dualism of particle.
== .
"... indeed an understanding of psi phenomena and of
consciousness must provide the basis of an improved
understanding of quantum mechanics."
/ Evan Walker /

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#32826 - 12/04/09 04:15 PM Re: What is the material basis of consciousness ?’ [Re: socratus]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 415
There are a vast number of other physical processes
that are not understood and defy current description.
Why did I choose from many complex quantities these
two things: Vacuum and Electron as basis of beginning ?
======================== .
1.
Because the Vacuum is the Source of the Universe.
2.
Because when Electron interacts with Vacuum
its parameters become infinite.
( it means the Vacuum absorbed Electron
{ now we call it virtual particle }
and in future the Vacuum will radiate Electron back
as the Quantum theory says.)
3.
These two facts are primary conditions of Existence.
=== .

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#32829 - 12/05/09 05:30 AM Re: What is the material basis of consciousness ?’ [Re: socratus]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 415
The Information ( some basis of Consciousness) can be transfer
to you in our terrestrial world only by Electromagnetic waves.
Lorentz proved: there aren’t Electromagnetic waves without Electron.
Therefore I say,
only Electron can be the Quantum of Information/ Consciousness.
We don’t have any other theory of Information’s transfers.
========== .

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#33120 - 12/30/09 06:02 AM Re: What is the material basis of consciousness ?’ [Re: socratus]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 415
More details.

"... indeed an understanding of psi phenomena and of
consciousness must provide the basis of an improved
understanding of quantum mechanics."
/Evan Walker /
In my opinion it means that to answer to the question
‘ where the consciousness come from?’
we must understand not only the brain but electron too.
Once again.
Human brain works on two levels:
consciousness and subconsciousness. The neurons of brain
create these two levels. So, that it means consciousness and
subconsciousness from physical point of view ( interaction
between billions and billions neurons ). It can only mean
that the state of neurons in these two situations is different.
How can we understand these different states of neurons?
How does the brain generate consciousness?
We can understand this situation only on the quantum level,
only using Quantum theory. But there isn’t QT without
Quantum of Light and Electron. So, what is interaction between
Quantum of Light, Electron and brain ?
Therefore I say: we must understand not only the brain but electron too.
=================.
According to Pauli Exclusion Principle
only one single electron can be in the atom.
If the atom contains more than one electron
(for example - two), this atom represents " Siamese twins".
Save us, the Great God, of having such atoms, such cells.
And therefore the human brain has only one Electron.
Each of us has an Electron, but we do not know it.
As the ‘Bhagavad Gita’ says:
Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form.
They do not know My transcendental nature and
My supreme dominion over all that be.
/ Chapter 9. Text 11./
================== .
Best wishes
Israel Sadovnik Socratus
================== .

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#33131 - 12/30/09 10:42 PM Re: What is the material basis of consciousness ?’ [Re: socratus]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 415
P. S.
Quantum physics meets biology.

/ By Markus Arndt, Thomas Juffmann, Vlatko Vedral /
http://www.univie.ac.at/qfp/publications3/pdffiles/Arndt2009a%20HFSPJ%20Quantum%20Bio%20Printed.pdf

===================.

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#33147 - 01/01/10 10:48 AM Re: What is the material basis of consciousness ?’ [Re: socratus]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 415
Quantum physics meets biology.

What did the authors
/ Markus Arndt, Thomas Juffmann, Vlatko Vedral /
talk about in their article ?
http://www.univie.ac.at/qfp/publications3/pdffiles/Arndt2009a%20HFSPJ%20Quantum%20Bio%20Printed.pdf

They have interest only in one idea.
Through all their work they try to understand the
connection between information, brain and quantum
theory in living and not living systems.
Their conclusion is.
The interest of combination between Quantum physics
and Biology is growing but many experimental
demonstrations and theoretical explanation unclear.
To understand this problem is timely and important for us.
========.
My layman’s conclusion.
1.
In the internet we can read hundreds theories of electron.
All of them are problematical.
Nobody knows what electron is.
2.
In the internet we can read hundreds articles about
connection between quantum theory, brain and information.
All of them are problematical.
3.
There is tendency for searching this truth.
4.
How I understand this problem.
Our brain works on dualistic basis:
usually consciousness (logically) and rarely unconsciousness.
It means the interaction between billions and billions neurons
can be in two stats.
In the stat of consciousness (C ) or in the stat of unconsciousness ( U).
And we have information ( I ) which gives birth to thought and act
in the each of these two situations.
The question is:
How can the information or quantum of information transfer ( or be transfer)
from the stat C to the state U and vice versa ?
Doesn’t this question is similar to the puzzle of quantum tunneling ?
But quantum tunneling is tunneling of one particle- electron.
So.
How can electron transfer from the stats C to the state U and vice versa ?
What is electron ?
If somebody try to understand the connection between information,
brain and quantum theory without electron, he is mistaken.
=====================.
Socratus.

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#33150 - 01/02/10 01:04 AM Re: What is the material basis of consciousness ?’ [Re: socratus]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 415
Socratus
Electron itself is quantum of information

/ north Philosopher /
meaning ? explain further
========================.
1.
Electron’s behavior is strange:
a) Dualism of wave and particle.
b) Interaction with vacuum.
c) Interaction with photon.
The strange electron’s behavior shows that
electron is special particle.

2.
Electron possess five (5) formulas for its existence
It shows that electron is special particle.

3.
To transfer information we need Em waves, it means electron.
And only Electron !
It shows that electron is special particle.
#
As poet Valery Brusov has written

But maybe these electrons are World,
where there are five continents:
the art,
knowledge,
wars,
thrones
and the memory of forty centuries.

/ The world of electron. /
=========.

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#33181 - 01/07/10 05:53 AM Re: What is the material basis of consciousness ?’ [Re: socratus]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 415
The process of conscious and unconscious.
My layman’s opinion.
===============================

There is a possibility of the brain activity to have
the ability to switch between conscious and unconscious.
But this process is suppressed by contact with the
cerebral cortex neurons (! ) which work in Maxwell’s regime. ( !)
( Electroencephalography shows us the Maxwell’s electrical
activity of the brain)
#
To create 'awareness' having senses and thoughts is impossible.
The senses and thoughts increase the cerebral cortex neurons
impulses ( Maxwell’s EM energy ) and doesn’t give the ability
( of something ) to switch between conscious and unconscious.
#
Maxwell’s electrical activity of the brain shows the
‘normal – not normal logical ‘ process in the brain.
To create 'awareness/ unconscious ' needs another
process – Quantum (!). 'Awareness' is Quantum process.
Very often it is only Quantum moment (!) but at this moment,
at this second the structure of cerebral cortex neurons is changes
and it means that the thought and behaviour of person changes too.
And then again the Maxwell’s electrical activity of the brain takes place.
#
" . . . the discovery is not the matter of logical thought,
even if the final product is connected with the logical form".
/ Einstein /
===========================.
P.S.
Is an 'awareness/ unconscious ' equal to a ‘discovery / enlightenment ‘?
============.
Best wishes.
Israel Sadovnik Socratus.
============================================.

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#33944 - 04/14/10 05:34 PM Re: What is the material basis of consciousness ?’ [Re: socratus]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 415
The electron and the electromagnetic waves are physical reality
Electron produces electromagnetic waves
There isn’t electromagnetic field / waves without electron
The brain produces some kind of electromagnetic waves
The source of these electromagnetic waves must be an electron
Consciousness is also physical reality, some kind of
electromagnetic waves ( Electroencephalography)
Every thought has a frequency
The source of the consciousness must be an electron

Israel Sadovnik Socratus
=========================.

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#34492 - 05/24/10 07:08 PM Re: What is the material basis of consciousness ?’ [Re: socratus]
ImagingGeek Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/19/10
Posts: 410
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: socratus
The electron and the electromagnetic waves are physical reality


But only one tiny part of it. The vast majority of matter on earth is baryons (neutrons and protons), not electrons. From a biological perspective, protons and anions, are far more important than electrons.

Neurons operate through the flow of anions, not electrons, btw. Its not like electricity - flow from negative to positive, but rather flow from more positive to less positive.

Originally Posted By: socratus
Electron produces electromagnetic waves
There isn’t electromagnetic field / waves without electron
The brain produces some kind of electromagnetic waves


Which play no factor in the transmission of neural signals. The EM radiation produced by the brain is, in essence, waste energy. The production of those waves come at the cost of attenuated ion fluxes; it is those fluxes which carry neural signals.

Originally Posted By: socratus
The source of these electromagnetic waves must be an electron


Sorry, that is incorrect. The flow of any ionized particle can release electro-magnetic waves. Electrons are not special in that. In fact, much of medical imaging (MRI's in particular) is based on detecting EM waves generated by protons.

Originally Posted By: socratus
Consciousness is also physical reality, some kind of
electromagnetic waves ( Electroencephalography)
Every thought has a frequency
The source of the consciousness must be an electron


Consciousness is most likely an emergent property of having tens of thousands of analog processors running in parallel, which is basically what your brain is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergent_property

Bryan
_________________________
UAA...CAUGCUAUGAUGGAACGAACAAUUAUGGAA

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#34690 - 06/02/10 03:44 PM Re: What is the material basis of consciousness ?’ [Re: ImagingGeek]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 415
Originally Posted By: ImagingGeek
Originally Posted By: socratus
The electron and the electromagnetic waves are physical reality


But only one tiny part of it. The vast majority of matter on earth is baryons (neutrons and protons), not electrons. From a biological perspective, protons and anions, are far more important than electrons.

Bryan

1
Fully 70% of the matter density in the universe appears to be
in the form of dark energy. Twenty-six percent is dark matter.
Only 4% is ordinary matter. So less than 1 part in 20 is made
out of matter we have observed experimentally or described
in the standard model of particle physics. Of the other 96%,
apart from the properties just mentioned, we know absolutely nothing.

Lee Smolin: The Trouble with Physics, p. 16
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter
2
The vast majority of matter on earth is baryons
(neutrons and protons), not electrons.
/ ImagingGeek - Bryan /
3
How did baryons and electrons appear on earth from absolutely nothing?
S.

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#34691 - 06/02/10 04:03 PM Re: What is the material basis of consciousness ?’ [Re: socratus]
ImagingGeek Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/19/10
Posts: 410
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: socratus

1
Fully 70% of the matter density in the universe appears to be in the form of dark energy. Twenty-six percent is dark matter. Only 4% is ordinary matter. So less than 1 part in 20 is made out of matter we have observed experimentally or described in the standard model of particle physics. Of the other 96%, apart from the properties just mentioned, we know absolutely nothing.


And? Dark energy, etc, have nothing to do with the operations of our brains - with the exception of working a few humans brains really, really hard in trying to understand it - but otherwise, dark energy et al has nothing to do with the point I was making.

Originally Posted By: socratus
2
The vast majority of matter on earth is baryons
(neutrons and protons), not electrons.
/ ImagingGeek - Bryan /


Yep, both in mass and in terms of the number of individual particles. For every electron their is an attendant proton. The exact number of neutrons per proton is not a consistent number, but with the exception of hydrogen, there are some (usually more than protons though).

Ergo, electrons are outnumbered here on earth.

Originally Posted By: socratus
3
How did baryons and electrons appear on earth from absolutely nothing?


Also has nothing to do with the topic I brought up. Also shows that if you start with a false assumption, you get a false question.

Energy and matter are essentially one that the same - E=mc^2.

There was a lot of energy in the big bang. You can make particles from that energy. The source of those baryons, electrons, etc, should be pretty obvious...

Bryan
_________________________
UAA...CAUGCUAUGAUGGAACGAACAAUUAUGGAA

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#34712 - 06/03/10 02:15 PM Re: What is the material basis of consciousness ?’ [Re: ImagingGeek]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 415
Originally Posted By: ImagingGeek

There was a lot of energy in the big bang. You can make particles from that energy. The source of those baryons, electrons, etc, should be pretty obvious...
Bryan

After big bang all particles flew in different sides.
Suppose , that every particle is the owner of some information.
Then there are two possibilities:
a)
every particle has the own information and after about
20 billions years they accidentally united and created
accidentally everything including a man. In this situation
according to probability theory this process must take
not 20^ 9 but more than 10^100 years.
b)
in the beginning every particle has zero information .
question :" How does zero information further arrive to a
very high informational level ? "
Maybe this way of evolution also take more than 10^100 years ( ? !)
#
I prefer not accidental way but way of evolution.
#
So, we again have old philosophical problem: Does God play dice?
Materialism or Idealism ?
Maybe they can interact in some way?
What is relation between idealism and materialism?
=====================.
P.S.
Someone wrote that the chances for the universe to expand,
for the atom to exist, for the earth to bear life and for humanity
to find place is as little as on to a number so big that it would
require 244 zeros to write it down.

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#34725 - 06/04/10 01:27 AM Re: What is the material basis of consciousness ?’ [Re: socratus]
ImagingGeek Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/19/10
Posts: 410
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: socratus
After big bang all particles flew in different sides.
Suppose , that every particle is the owner of some information.

Why would I suppose such a thing? Information is not a characteristic intrinsic to matter; rather it is a product of complex systems. Even the physical sense of information doesn't work in this context - digital physics works on the assumption that all physical interactions are deterministic; but even then the "information" is not intrinsic to matter. And the latter - digital physics - is largely rejected as it is not compatible with quantum dynamics.

Originally Posted By: socratus
every particle has the own information and after about 20 billions years they accidentally united and created accidentally everything including a man. In this situation according to probability theory this process must take not 20^ 9 but more than 10^100 years.

Sorry, that is a stupid statement that ignores the past 1500 years of research into the physical sciences. There is nothing random about the interactions of atoms and their sub-atomic particles - gravity, weak and strong nuclear force and electromagnetism dictate the interaction of particles with each other.

In fact, the "evolution" of the universe is a prime example of determinism - as in the opposite of randomness - in action. After the big bang there were irregularities in the density of matter (we know this because we can see these irregularities in the CMB). the denser regions have more gravity, and thus collapsed inwards on themselves, forming large clouds of gas. These clouds of gas collapsed further under their own gravity, and in doing so acquired angular momentum. As these clouds collapsed further, they developed medium-sized denser regions which gravity again collapsed. And as these medium-sized clouds collapsed, they formed smaller irregularities which also collapsed under their own gravity.

The largest of those clouds became galaxies, the medium sized one turn into solar systems, and the smallest turned into the stars and planets. Nothing random about it - just gravity doing what gravity does, in a totally deterministic fashion.

Now, since its a non-random process, why the heck would you use a mathematical process intended for dealing with random systems? I'd also point out your number is meaningless; without details of how you calculated that value we have no way to ascertain its accuracy, even within your incorrect assumption of randomness.
Originally Posted By: socratus
How does zero information further arrive to a very high informational level ? "
Maybe this way of evolution also take more than 10^100 years ( ? !)

Nope. Galactic evolution, as described above, occurs quickly, driven by this not-so-magical non-random force called "gravity". And, as pointed out in the beginning, there is no intrinsic "information" in matter - information is an emergent property in higher systems.

Originally Posted By: socratus

I prefer not accidental way but way of evolution.

But since the formation of the universe was no more accidental than gravity, your point is moot. Start with a false assumption, come to a false conclusion.

Originally Posted By: socratus
So, we again have old philosophical problem: Does God play dice?

QED says yes. Rationalism says there is no god...

Originally Posted By: socratus
Materialism or Idealism quackery?

Fixed that for ya!

Originally Posted By: socratus
What is relation between idealism and materialism?

Human conceit.

Originally Posted By: socratus

Someone wrote that the chances for the universe to expand,
for the atom to exist, for the earth to bear life and for humanity to find place is as little as on to a number so big that it would require 244 zeros to write it down.

Actually, the probability of the above is 1.0, seeing as it happened.

And if creationist quotes are your evidence, you're in big trouble.

Bryan
_________________________
UAA...CAUGCUAUGAUGGAACGAACAAUUAUGGAA

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#34754 - 06/05/10 03:50 AM Re: What is the material basis of consciousness ?’ [Re: ImagingGeek]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 415
Originally Posted By: ImagingGeek
[

In fact, the "evolution" of the universe is a prime example of determinism - as in the opposite of randomness - in action.

After the big bang there were irregularities in the density
of matter (we know this because we can see these irregularities
in the CMB).
the denser regions have more gravity, and thus collapsed
inwards on themselves, forming large clouds of gas.
These clouds of gas collapsed further under their own gravity,
and in doing so acquired angular momentum.
As these clouds collapsed further, they developed medium-sized
denser regions which gravity again collapsed.
And as these medium-sized clouds collapsed, they formed smaller irregularities which also collapsed under their own gravity.

The largest of those clouds became galaxies,
the medium sized one turn into solar systems,
and the smallest turned into the stars and planets.
Nothing random about it - just gravity doing what gravity does,
in a totally deterministic fashion.

Bryan

#
" . . .gravity, forming large clouds of gas.
These clouds of gas collapsed further under their own gravity,"
#
Gravity makes Clouds of gas.
Clouds of gas makes Gravity.
#
And according to ironical Plato:
‘ . . by Beauty that beautiful things are beautiful’. . . .
‘ by largeness that large things are large and larger things larger,
and by smallness that smaller things are smaller’
===========================================================
S.



Edited by socratus (06/05/10 03:53 AM)

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#34773 - 06/07/10 10:29 AM Re: What is the material basis of consciousness ?’ [Re: socratus]
coberst Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/04/07
Posts: 369
Extended consciousness

Antonio Damasio is a scientist who has set out to organize a scientific study of human consciousness. Damasio utilizes a rather unique method that involves careful observation of individuals who have been deprived of some aspects of consciousness because of brain lesions caused by accidents. He studies brain dysfunction caused by such things as strokes and accidents.

Damasio finds that “nearly all the sites of brain damage associated with a significant disruption of core consciousness share one important trait…these structures are of old evolutionary vintage, they are present in numerous nonhuman species, and they mature early in individual human development.”

That is to say that his evidence indicates that core consciousness is centered about the brain’s physical areas that developed very early in the evolution of life on our planet, i.e. human core consciousness is directly evolved from early animal forms.

The basic facts made available for analysis give testimony to the hypothesis that consciousness is not a monolith. Most importantly there is an abrupt division between what is identified as core consciousness and extended consciousness. There are also distinguishing levels within extended consciousness it self. When core consciousness fails then extended consciousness follows.


Many non human creatures have emotions—“human emotions however have evolved to making connections to complex ideas, values, principles, and judgments”—thus human emotion is special—the impact of feelings on humans is the result of consciousness—a distinct difference between feeling and knowing a feeling—“neither the emotion or the feeling caused by the emotion is conscious”—these things happen in a biological state—there are three stages here; emotion, feeling, and consciousness of feeling—consciousness must be present if feelings have an influence beyond the here and the now—consciousness is tooted in the representation of the body.

We need not be conscious of the emotion or the inducer of the emotion—we are about as effective in stopping an emotion as in stopping a sneeze.

“Emotions are about the life of an organism, its body to be precise, and their role is to assist the organism in maintaining life…emotions are biologically determined processes, depending upon innately set brain devices, laid down by long evolutionary history…The devices that produce emotions…are part of a set of structures that both regulate and represent body states…All devices can be engaged automatically, without conscious deliberation…The variety of the emotional responses is responsible for profound changes in both the body landscape and the brain landscape. The collection of these changes constitutes the substrate for the neural patterns which eventually become feelings of emotion.”

The biological function of emotions is to produce an automatic action in certain situations and to regulate the internal processes so that the creature is able to support the action dictated by the situation. The biological purpose of emotions are clear, they are not a luxury but a necessity for survival.

“It is through feelings, which are inwardly directed and private, that emotions, which are outwardly directed and public, begin their impact on the mind; but the full and lasting impact of feelings requires consciousness, because only along with the advent of a sense of self do feelings become known to the individual having them.”

Damasio proposes “that the term feeling should be reserve for the private, mental experience of an emotion, while the term emotion should be used to designate the collection of responses, many of which are publicly observable.” This means that while we can observe our own private feelings we cannot observe these same feelings in others.

Core consciousness—“occurs when the brain’s representation devices generate an imaged, nonverbal account of how the organism’s own state is affected by the organism’s processing of an object, and when this process enhances the image of the causative object, thus placing it saliently in a spatial and temporal context”

First, there is emotion, then comes feeling, then comes core consciousness of feeling. There is no evidence that we are conscious of all our feelings, in fact evidence indicates that we are not conscious of all feelings.

[b]Humans have extended consciousness, which takes core consciousness to the level of self consciousness and the awareness of mortality.


Extended consciousness is the consciousness we normally speak of and that is the autobiographical consciousness possessed by humans.

“Extended consciousness goes beyond the here and now of core consciousness. Extended consciousness places these same experiences in a broader canvas and over a longer period of time. Extended consciousness still hinges on the same core “you”. But that “you” is now connected to the lived past and anticipated future that are part of your autobiographical record…autobiographical memories are objects, and the brain treats them as such, allows each of them to relate to the organism in the manner described for core consciousness, and thus allows each of them to generate a pulse of core consciousness, a sense of self knowing.”

This is why we have the ability to learn and the ability to retain records of experiences. “The ability to reactivate those records in such a way that, as objects, they, too, can generate “a sense of self knowing,” and thus be known”.[/b]


Quotes from The Feeling of what Happens: Body and Emotion in the Making of Consciousness by Antonio Damasio

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#34797 - 06/08/10 03:23 PM Re: What is the material basis of consciousness ?’ [Re: socratus]
ImagingGeek Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/19/10
Posts: 410
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: socratus

#
" . . .gravity, forming large clouds of gas.
These clouds of gas collapsed further under their own gravity,"
#
Gravity makes Clouds of gas.
Clouds of gas makes Gravity.


Yep. Gravity is an inherent property of matter. Thus any matter - even a cloud of gas - has gravity. That gravity will cause those clouds to collapse. If within those clouds there are regions of denser gas, they too will collapse - a sub-collapse within a larger collapse.

Bryan
_________________________
UAA...CAUGCUAUGAUGGAACGAACAAUUAUGGAA

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