Welcome to
Science a GoGo's
Discussion Forums
Please keep your postings on-topic or they will be moved to a galaxy far, far away.
Your use of this forum indicates your agreement to our terms of use.
So that we remain spam-free, please note that all posts by new users are moderated.


The Forums
General Science Talk        Not-Quite-Science        Climate Change Discussion        Physics Forum        Science Fiction

Search Forums
Custom Search
Who's Online
0 registered (), 78 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Posts
Natural global cooling & human effect on climate
by Bill S.
Yesterday at 02:46 PM
How works GPS ? can we use relativity Or Not ?
by newton
Yesterday at 01:42 PM
Carbon Dioxide Trapping of Earth's Heat
by paul
Yesterday at 09:11 AM
Time at event horizons.
by Bill
Yesterday at 08:06 AM
Sex Climate Change and CO2 Trapping
by paul
08/19/14 10:45 AM
Faster than C ( 45 degree open chaber EMdrive)
by newton
08/17/14 06:18 AM
Top Posters (30 Days)
paul 50
newton 27
Bill S. 25
Bill 22
samwik 15
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#31081 - 07/08/09 03:12 PM How do you see the unity of all Physical Laws ?
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 385
How do you see the unity of all Physical Laws ?

I ask this question because between Real Laws
( Newton's , Maxwell's, Einstein's, Lorentz's,
Schrödinger's, Dirac's . . . .etc.) there are many 'black holes'
and ' white spots' ( time, dark energy, dark mass, graviton,
quark, Higgs boson, . . . and 1000 another elementary particles.)

Comments.
1.
Unity? That's news. But physics keeps striving to reduce the number
of equations necessary to describe everything -- so called unification.

It began when Newton unified gravity on earth with gravity in space.
1 equation.

Unification continued when Maxwell reduced all the experiments
on electricity and magnetism to just 4 equations.

It continued with Einstein's special relativity, which amounts
to the Lorentz transformation. 4 equations. You might say
it unifies space and time. General relativity unifies gravitational
mass with inertial mass.

Then equations of motion for atoms were described by quantum
mechanics -- such as Schroedinger Equation & later Dirac Equation.
These form the common unification of chemistry.

Then quantum electrodynamics was discovered, which unified
electromagnetism with the quantum theory. Some of theory's
predictions (such as the fine structure constant) have been
experimentally verified to something like 10 or 12 decimal places,
a huge measure of success for any physical theory.

Meanwhile the strong & weak nuclear forces were partly
de-mystified: The weak force was found to be unified with
electromagnetism (electro-weak force), while the strong nuclear
force involves quarks of various kinds, with specific rules of
interaction best described by group theory.

And so it goes. The 'holy grail' of physics is to reduce all
of existence (all interactions of all particles) into a single equation,
sometimes called "God's Equation" -- the ultimate unification.

" Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler."
/ --Albert Einstein /
/ by xprofessor /
2.
i think there is unity in most laws but not all, after quantum physics
basically there is no real law, we think of time, gravity and matter
in certain ways but in reality they are random forces with mostly
predictable outcomes but not 100 %, then there is parallel
universes and things as such where physical laws go the
wayside , just like black holes. , so in reality , not much unity.
/ by newyorkguy /

3.
Their is the laws of the microverse and laws for the macroverse
(verse = universe) I wonder if they apply 100% at their own
extents and reduce (perhaps exponentially) as they come closer
toward the other one meshing in the in the middle. thus the
macrocosm still deals with quantum physics at
say .000000000000000000 00000000000 1% near the size
of say our solar system where "normal" laws of say gravity
exist at 99.9999999999999999 999999999% and vice versa
at say the size of an atom it is the other way...?????
?? hhmmmmmmmm?? ?? just perhaps.
/ by guardian /
4.
I want it to be simple and not too magical.
/ by SuperA /
5.
Yours is a very profound question. I can tell from your question that
you are ready to be let in on the "Dirty Little Secret" of Theoretical Physics:
We have NOT yet figured everything out. The universe is governed by whole
sets of "Laws" that do NOT agree and are mutually exclusive.
This is a great embarrassment. We assume we live in an orderly, rational
universe that makes sense. Perhaps when Quantum Mechanics and
General Relativity are unified we will have a better answer to your question.

A paraphrase from NOVA - Elegant Universe with Graham Greene
http://www.pbs. org/wgbh/ nova/elegant/ pro…
/ by OldPilot /
6.
The LAWS must unify, or we are describing things that don't actually exist.
/ Allen Francom /.
============ ==== . .
P.S.
I think that now our Physics looks like the Augean stables.

And if we want to clean them we must start from
understanding not new but the old abstract models:
ideal gas, ideal black body, entropy, electrical harmonic
oscillators, point -particle . . . etc.
====== . .
Best wishes.
Israel Sadovnik. / Socratus.

Top
Of Interest?
#31090 - 07/09/09 06:23 AM Re: How do you see the unity of all Physical Laws ? [Re: socratus]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 385

Comment.
Aether is unity. The design of the universe is one.
/ Mitch Raemsch /
#
Question.
Is it possible to write/ describe Aether
by the formula: T=0K or No ?
======== .
Best wishes.
Israel Sadovnik. / Socratus.

Top
#31092 - 07/09/09 07:38 AM Re: How do you see the unity of all Physical Laws ? [Re: socratus]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 385
Comments.
#
Something to do with the process of potential, I'd say.
/ ZerkonXXXX /
==== .
Hi, ZerkonXXXX.
Would you agree if I say :
1.
What in Vacuum is hidden 99% of unseen
potential antimatter/ antienergy ( dark matter/energy).
2.
We can see result of these potential antimatter/ antienergy
as 1% of visible matter and energy in the World.
Socratus.

# #
The unity of physical laws is the "Capernaum" conservation
of energy in stasis.
Capernaum:
Rendered in Greek as "Kαφαρναουμ (Kapharnaum)".
In Arabic, it is called Talhum, and it is assumed that this refers
to the ruin (Tell) of Hum.
/ Musatov. /
=============== .
Hi, Musatov.

I think your answer isn’t complete.
The complete name of the physical law is:
" The Law of Conservation and Transformation
of Energy/ Mass".
So, you need to finish your comment.
Socratus.
========= .

Top
#31096 - 07/10/09 12:03 AM Re: How do you see the unity of all Physical Laws ? [Re: socratus]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 385
How do you see the unity of all Physical Laws ?
#
By wearing special Unity glasses !
/ Don Stockbauer /
===================== .
Do we see the Universe using only Math glasses ?
Socratus.

Top
#31106 - 07/11/09 02:51 PM Re: How do you see the unity of all Physical Laws ? [Re: socratus]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 385
Reflections on a Self-Representing Universe
By CambridgeBlog ⋅
/ By Shahn Majid. /

#
Space and Time debate needs to involve not only scientists
but the wider public.

. . . in fact, theoretical physics is in need of fresh profound ideas

The reason is that scientists’ ideas have to come from somewhere,
from sitting around in cafes, from contemplation of art.

We don’t know where the key revolutionary idea
is going to come from.

Put another way, to progress, scientists need now to see
what Science is, which means they have to step outside it
and see it in part as a non-scientist.

#
I want you to ask yourself what does someone have
to say about quantum gravity?
What does that person have in common with a theoretical physicist?
My approach as a theoretical physicist is to use
mathematics and the scientific method to explore the issue,
while a carol singer is surely using other means to ‘connect’.

As a scientist I am 1000% committed to the Scientific Method
but I see it as a particular way of exploring reality.

One that we might now need to understand better by seeing
it from the outside.

What I am going to argue now is that what we know about
quantum gravity — what we have seen in earlier posts — is telling
us that the Scientific Method itself is perhaps the fundamental
‘metaequation’ of physics.

In other words, just maybe, as we search for the ultimate theory
of physics we are in fact rediscovering our own assumptions
in being Scientists, the Scientific Method?
#
http://www.cambridgeblog.org/2008/12/reflections-on-a-self-representing-universe/

================ .

Top
#31109 - 07/11/09 11:01 PM Re: How do you see the unity of all Physical Laws ? [Re: socratus]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 385
Quote 1.
Hence, to summarise - it seems that mathematics has always
Provided a stable, natural (?) language in which to describe
phenomena but it may not be the ultimate 'natural' language
of the universe!

Einstein sought to understand ‘his [God's] equations’ but perhaps
the 'universe' has been having a 'bit of a laugh' at our feeble
efforts to describe it using mathematics!

Perhaps the universal 'picture' will be clearer when we understand
the universes’ own hidden language?

/ Conclusion from a long math comment.
Author is unknown. /

Quote 2. JerryGG:

I run into similar problems when I attempt to understand why
positive dot-waves attract negative dot-waves and visa versa
at a distance.
Yet close up positive dot-waves merge into positive dot-waves.

Whether my theory is true of not, we are faced with a problem
that the universe operates on certain basic rules which are not
easily understood. Then science degenerates into philosophy or
meta-physics at the basic level. All we are left with is intuitive
solutions.

All our experiments are limited to interactions with electrons
as the measuring probes. This is the limit of our experiments.
Thus we cannot readily see beyond our measuring instruments.

3.
All our experiments are limited to interactions with electrons
as the measuring probes. This is the limit of our experiments.
Thus we cannot readily see beyond our measuring instruments.
/ JerryGG: / jerrygg38 /
======== .

Quote 3.
So.
1.
The problem of understanding the microworld ( electron)
existing is connected with the measuring.
2.
The measurement is connected with the measuring instruments.
3.
The region of using measuring instruments is limited.
4.
Does this limiting mean the end of our knowledge ?
5.
Or, maybe, is it possible to understand the microworld
somehow in another way?
====== .
Do we have 'Theory of Knowledge' ?
Of course. Maybe 1000.
====== . .
Socratus.

Top
#31111 - 07/12/09 02:11 PM Re: How do you see the unity of all Physical Laws ? [Re: socratus]
Zephir Offline
Superstar

Registered: 07/01/08
Posts: 498
Currently the Aether Wave Theory is the only framework of general understanding of reality.

Top
#31121 - 07/13/09 01:45 PM Re: How do you see the unity of all Physical Laws ? [Re: Zephir]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 385
Comment.
#
It seems there are very real limitations to seeing the universe with our
extended senses. Sense data is perhaps nearing the boundary imposed
by time and distance, our observable universe but a tiny part of a much
greater whole.
Finite mind trying to understand infinite reality using abstract tools
of doubtful logic is perhaps a non-starter.
At least our minds are capable of reasoning how the universe might be,
and perhaps even our wildest imagination will never do justice to how
it really is.
If we could see it for real, it would lose the magic of its eternal mystery.
/ A P /
============ .

Top
#31122 - 07/13/09 02:17 PM Re: How do you see the unity of all Physical Laws ? [Re: Zephir]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 385
Originally Posted By: Zephir
Currently the Aether Wave Theory is the only framework of general understanding of reality.

================================================================
By my peasant’s opinion the Einstein’s quote:
"You do not really understand something unless
you can explain it to your grandmother."

doesn’t coordinate with the content of the Aether Wave Theory.
http://aetherwavetheory.blogspot.com/

Top
#31128 - 07/14/09 04:48 AM Re: How do you see the unity of all Physical Laws ? [Re: socratus]
Zephir Offline
Superstar

Registered: 07/01/08
Posts: 498
Originally Posted By: socratus
doesn’t coordinate with the content of the Aether Wave Theory.
http://aetherwavetheory.blogspot.com

Opinion is irrelevant, evidence is...

Top
#31131 - 07/14/09 07:17 AM Re: How do you see the unity of all Physical Laws ? [Re: Zephir]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 385
Originally Posted By: Zephir

Opinion is irrelevant, evidence is...

======================
Of course writing ‘ Opinion is irrelevant, evidence is...’
you are correct. But you promised to explain the
Aether Wave Theory as simple as even ‘your grandmother’
would understand it . http://aetherwavetheory.blogspot.com/
And you didn’t keep your word.
==========
S.


Edited by socratus (07/14/09 07:19 AM)

Top
#31133 - 07/14/09 08:18 AM Re: How do you see the unity of all Physical Laws ? [Re: socratus]
Zephir Offline
Superstar

Registered: 07/01/08
Posts: 498
Originally Posted By: socratus
..you promised to explain the Aether Wave Theory as simple as even "your grandmother" would understand it..
OK, what we can see on the picture bellow?

Top
#31135 - 07/14/09 09:58 AM Re: How do you see the unity of all Physical Laws ? [Re: Zephir]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 385
Originally Posted By: Zephir
Originally Posted By: socratus
..you promised to explain the Aether Wave Theory as simple as even "your grandmother" would understand it..
OK, what we can see on the picture bellow?

=========================================
Sunday, July 12, 2009
Aether based explanation of dark matter
Before month I listed four explanations of dark matter, which are plural from AWT perspective:

consequence of limited light speed spreading through expanding space-time

surface tension effect of bell curve shaped gravity field
application of mass-energy equivalence to Einstein field equation
result of variable surface/volume ratio to energy spreading by principle of least action
But we can use even more illustrative explanation, linked to dispersion of energy by background field of CMB photons formed by gravitational waves (GWs), which manifests like weak deceleration equivalent to product of Hubble constant and speed of light. This dispersion is direct manifestation of hidden dimensions on both large scales, both small scales, because it manifests as a shielding effect of these photons at Casimir force distance scale. We can say, Casimir force is a shielding effect of GWs, whereas the Pioneer anomaly is subtle deceleration effect caused by dispersion by GWs. Both these forces are result in violation of Newton law at small scales, which manifests itself by anomalous deceleration at large scales and as such it violates the equivalence principle of general relativity - it's as easy, as it is.

We can even find a direct analogy of this deceleration in our "pocket model" of observable Universe at water surface. From local perspective of every observer, whose size is evolutionary adjusted to wavelength of capillary waves (human distance scale) such surface is covered mostly by transversal waves, where the energy spreads in maximal speed from his insintric perspective, so he can interact with largest space-time possible (the speed of transversal waves is minimal from exsintric perspective, instead).

But the particle character of water environment manifests by dispersion of surface waves by tiny density fluctuations of underwater, which results into gradual change of transversal character of capillary waves into longitudinal one (i.e. into gravity waves). This dispersion decreases the speed of waves from exsintric perspective, which manifests like omni directional Universe expansion from insintric perspective or like subtle deceleration, which effectively freezes the spreading of surface waves, which can be interpreted like spreading of these waves in environment of gradually increasing density. We can observe this effect easily by splash ripples, formed by capillary waves. On the example bellow such waves are formed by bursting of bubbles at water surface, which can be interpreted like radiative decay of unstable particle in vacuum into gamma photons.



From this perspective every object is surrounded by virtual massive field which originates from massive field of virtual photons, i.e. the field of density fluctuations, which are manifesting in GWs formed by gravitons expanded by inflation and which is forming vacuum foam - and in this context it's quite natural and easily predictable effect following from AWT directly. Just the immense density of vacuum and common disbelief in Aether concept has caused, the effect of background field dispersion wasn't linked to dark matter observations and Pioneer anomaly before many years. Here's still plenty of room "at the bottom" of basic human understanding. Note that in this context the further search for GWs has no meaning, because we have observed them already like background noise of GWs detectors and their scope is limited by Casimir force scope in the same way, like scope of extradimensions and Lorentz symmetry violation at low scale.

Albert Einstein "You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother."
Posted by Zephir at 7:38 AM 0 comments Links to this post
Labels: AWT, dark matter
================================

Top
#31136 - 07/14/09 11:31 AM Re: How do you see the unity of all Physical Laws ? [Re: socratus]
Zephir Offline
Superstar

Registered: 07/01/08
Posts: 498
OK, and which sentence did you not understand?

Top
#31138 - 07/14/09 01:50 PM Re: How do you see the unity of all Physical Laws ? [Re: Zephir]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 385
Originally Posted By: Zephir
OK, and which sentence did you not understand?

===
Aether based explanation of dark matter
/ Zehpir /
=========== .
What is Aether ? ( formula ).
What is dark matter ? ( formula ).
========= .
But, please, remember I am a simple peasant.
I know only some simple formulas as:
T=0K,
E=Mc^2,
R/N=k,
c/d= pi = 3,14 . . .,
h= Et,
h= kb,
h(bar)=h/2pi,
E= h(bar)f,
e^2= ach(bar),
atom= p+ e . . .

If you use more complex formulas, my peasant brain
will no understand your explanation and I will think
that you clever than me.
========
S.

Top
#31140 - 07/14/09 03:59 PM Re: How do you see the unity of all Physical Laws ? [Re: socratus]
Zephir Offline
Superstar

Registered: 07/01/08
Posts: 498
Originally Posted By: socratus
..if you use more complex formulas...
My grandma does know any formula. Just try to play granny for a while and forget some formulas.. The knowledge of some formula doesn't help you in understanding, why these formulas are valid, after all..

Now I explain you dark matter, OK? Do you know, what this stuff is about?

Top
#31145 - 07/14/09 10:35 PM Re: How do you see the unity of all Physical Laws ? [Re: Zephir]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 385
Sorry.
Without Physical Formulas I cannot think about Universe creation.
Best wishes.
S.

Top
#31151 - 07/15/09 02:13 PM Re: How do you see the unity of all Physical Laws ? [Re: socratus]
Zephir Offline
Superstar

Registered: 07/01/08
Posts: 498
Originally Posted By: socratus
...Without Physical Formulas I cannot think about Universe creation..
Abstract nonformal thinking is always at the very beginning of every important formula derivation.

Top
#31157 - 07/16/09 09:09 AM Re: How do you see the unity of all Physical Laws ? [Re: Zephir]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 385
Originally Posted By: Zephir
Originally Posted By: socratus

...Without Physical Formulas I cannot think about Universe creation..

Abstract nonformal thinking is always at the very beginning
of every important formula derivation.

========================
If you are right, then I prefer to read more simple
explanation about Existing without formulas.
For example: the Bible.
You cannot compete with this scientific explanation.
I only have a little doubt .
I am sure that a man was created from
woman’s rib and no vice versa as There had written.
==========

Top
#31161 - 07/16/09 03:12 PM Re: How do you see the unity of all Physical Laws ? [Re: socratus]
Zephir Offline
Superstar

Registered: 07/01/08
Posts: 498
Originally Posted By: socratus
For example: the Bible.
Bible explanations have no logics, neither predictability, testable one the less.

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >



Moderator:  Amaranth Rose II, Kate, Mike Kremer 
Newest Members
albert, scir, TraVnd, Scramblinman, robynlodge
696 Registered Users
Sponsor
Facebook

We're on Facebook
Join Our Group

Science a GoGo's Home Page | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Contact Us
Features | News | Books | Physics | Space | Climate Change | Health | Technology | Natural World

Copyright © 1998 - 2013 Science a GoGo and its licensors. All rights reserved.