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 #33619 - 03/16/10 04:07 AM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism Kyra M Member Registered: 06/25/09 Posts: 91 The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Kyra K 2009 Andrea is discussing this with me.I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.Probably not. So, when do you want to start?[Remember, you did ask me to help you.)Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?Well, what do you think?It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?I wish it was.Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.Which is which?Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware. You say seemingly?Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy. We are not aware that we are aware?Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.I’m listening.A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.Death?After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock. Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’ Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy. And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness. The awareness of the Universe.The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion. Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol. What are the advantages of believing in this?Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.How so?Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.Is all suffering karma then?No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.Now, how can I get this straight? I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole. But they still would be?Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.But you said..?The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.I see, make it/them aware.Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away. Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust. 5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism. 7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.And the Light Energy has always known.Precisely.NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves. Top
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 #33736 - 03/27/10 02:54 AM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism Kyra M Member Registered: 06/25/09 Posts: 91 The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Kyra K 2009 Andrea is discussing this with me.I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.Probably not. So, when do you want to start?[Remember, you did ask me to help you.)Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?Well, what do you think?It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?I wish it was.Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.Which is which?Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware. You say seemingly?Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy. We are not aware that we are aware?Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.I’m listening.A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.Death?After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock. Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’ Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy. And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness. The awareness of the Universe.The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion. Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol. What are the advantages of believing in this?Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.How so?Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.Is all suffering karma then?No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.Now, how can I get this straight? I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole. But they still would be?Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.But you said..?The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.I see, make it/them aware.Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away. Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust. 5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism. 7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.And the Light Energy has always known.Precisely.NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves. Top
 #33750 - 03/28/10 02:22 AM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism Revlgking Megastar Registered: 01/17/07 Posts: 2311 Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ... Kyra and Andrea, pardon this old fogy for what you may think of as an intrusion. If you wish, feel free to tell me you have everything under control. I will not be offended. However, if you would welcome some help in making it easier for readers to understand what you want to say, think about the following. Kyra, it is my understanding that your main goal is to you tell your readers, as clearly as possible, what you mean by "Whole Threadism". You want us to have a clear idea of what you mean, right? It seems to me that to do this you have chosen to use the same method as used by Socrates in famous DIALOGUES OF PLATO--a wise choice. Therefore, may I suggest you do the following: Like in a play, make it clear who is saying what to whom. To illustrate what I mean, using the first part of what I assume you said to each other, I offer the following: =================================================FELLOW POSTERS, KYRA HERE. WHOLE THREADISM, AS MANY OF YOU ALREADY KNOW IS A CONCEPT WHICH IS NEAR AND DEAR TO MY HEART.(©Kyra K 2009). To help me, Kyra, to clarify my thoughts I have asked a friend, Andrea, to dialogue with me about this. Readers, feel free to participate in the dialogue with your comments and questions.Kyra: I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.Andrea: Probably not. So, when do you want to start? [Remember, you did ask me to help you.)Kyra: Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back to me with more questions to my answers. It’s all speculation you know. Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.Andrea: Okay, here goes: Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy. That is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and, I think, it may be of us.Kyra: Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?Andrea: Well, what do you think?Kyra: It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?Andrea: I wish it was.Kyra: Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.Andrea: Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.Kyra: Which is which?Andrea: Look! I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis: We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.Kyra: You say, seemingly?===============================BTW, make a point of doing a search on the work of Alfred North Whitehead, Process Philosophy and Theology, and Panentheism--not to be confused with pantheism. http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/panentheism/#Hishttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Cobbhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Hartshorne Edited by Revlgking (03/28/10 02:39 AM)Edit Reason: Always a Good Idea! _________________________ G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org Top
 #33863 - 04/05/10 06:54 AM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism Kyra M Member Registered: 06/25/09 Posts: 91 Hi Rev,Great idea, I did write this originally with italics for Andrea but it didn't come out when I posted it on here. Top
 #33896 - 04/09/10 05:56 AM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism Kyra M Member Registered: 06/25/09 Posts: 91 The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Myra King 2009 Andrea, who is my alter ego, is in italics.Me: I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.Andrea: Probably not. So, when do you want to start? Remember, you did ask me to help you.Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.Andrea: Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.Me: Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.Andrea: Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?Well, what do you think?Andrea: It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?Me: Oh, god, I wish it was.Andrea: Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.Me:Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.Andrea: Which is which?Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware. Andrea: You say seemingly?Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy. Andrea: We are not aware that we are aware?Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.Andrea: Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.Andrea: Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.Andrea: I’m listening.A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well. Andrea: Death?After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock. Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.Andrea: That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.Andrea: Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’ Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy. And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness. Andrea: The awareness of the Universe.The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.Andrea: Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.Andrea: Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion. Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol. Andrea: What are the advantages of believing in this?Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.Andrea: And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.Andrea: How so?Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.Andrea: Is all suffering karma then?No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.Andrea: Now, how can I get this straight? I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole. Andrea: But they still would be?Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.Andrea: But you said..?The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.Andrea: I see, make it/them aware.Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away. Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust. 5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism. 7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.Andrea: Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.Andrea: And the Light Energy has always known.Precisely.NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves. Top
 #34226 - 05/06/10 07:40 AM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism Kyra M Member Registered: 06/25/09 Posts: 91 Me: I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.Andrea: Probably not. So, when do you want to start? Remember, you did ask me to help you.Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.Andrea: Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.Me: Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.Andrea: Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?Well, what do you think?Andrea: It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?Me: Oh, god, I wish it was.Andrea: Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.Me:Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.Andrea: Which is which?Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware. Andrea: You say seemingly?Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy. Andrea: We are not aware that we are aware?Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.Andrea: Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.Andrea: Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.Andrea: I’m listening.A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.Andrea: Death?After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock. Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.Andrea: That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.Andrea: Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’ Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy. And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness. Andrea: The awareness of the Universe.The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.Andrea: Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.Andrea: Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion. Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol. Andrea: What are the advantages of believing in this?Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.Andrea: And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.Andrea: How so?Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.Andrea: Is all suffering karma then?No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.Andrea: Now, how can I get this straight? I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole. Andrea: But they still would be?Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.Andrea: But you said..?The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.Andrea: I see, make it/them aware.Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away. Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust. 5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism. 7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.Andrea: Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.Andrea: And the Light Energy has always known.Precisely.NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves. Top
 #35513 - 07/21/10 07:23 AM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism Kyra M Member Registered: 06/25/09 Posts: 91 Kyra M Member Registered: 06/24/09 Posts: 58 The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Kyra K 2009 Andrea is discussing this with me.I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.Probably not. So, when do you want to start?[Remember, you did ask me to help you.)Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?Well, what do you think?It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?I wish it was.Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.Which is which?Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware. You say seemingly?Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy. We are not aware that we are aware?Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.I’m listening.A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.Death?After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock. Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’ Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy. And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness. The awareness of the Universe.The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion. Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol. What are the advantages of believing in this?Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.How so?Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.Is all suffering karma then?No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.Now, how can I get this straight? I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole. But they still would be?Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.But you said..?The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.I see, make it/them aware.Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away. Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust. 5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism. 7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.And the Light Energy has always known.Precisely.NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves. Top
 #35523 - 07/21/10 10:19 PM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism Revlgking Megastar Registered: 01/17/07 Posts: 2311 Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ... Quote:4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust. Kyra, Good to see that this thread is back in action. GOD IS ALL BEING----000---- GOD--the all that is Good, Orderly and Desirable, including life--GOD is the who in you, Including all beings with personalities. GOD is the what in all things--Things with three dimensions,Which occupy space and time. GOD is the where in infinite space,Which we call infinity, and, GOD is Being itself--the whenIn the eternal now, which we call time. Finally, GOD is the whyIn all that has meaning and purpose. ==================================Me? without any dogma involved, as a unit of All Being with the power to will, I simply tune into, connect with, All Being, give good will--some call it love--and good things seem to happen.Hint: There is infinite space in cyberspace. Therefore, spread out your ideas. _________________________ G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org Top
 #35525 - 07/22/10 01:18 AM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism kallog Megastar Registered: 03/17/10 Posts: 1100 Forgive me for not having a clue what you guys are on about, but what in the bageezus are you guys on about?!?! It might help to either define the terms or invent new words rather than confuse yourselves with overloaded, ambiguous, emotional ones. Top
 #35531 - 07/22/10 03:02 AM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism Revlgking Megastar Registered: 01/17/07 Posts: 2311 Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ... Kallog, I just checked your profile. What the bageezus are you all about? Give us a clue. Us? We are all about what it means to be human and humane beings. When you are ready, come and join us. _________________________ G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org Top
 #35532 - 07/22/10 12:06 PM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism kallog Megastar Registered: 03/17/10 Posts: 1100 What's dark energy got to do with being humane beings? Is it an analogy for something? Why not explain the idea directly? Top
 #35534 - 07/22/10 01:29 PM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism Revlgking Megastar Registered: 01/17/07 Posts: 2311 Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ... Kallog, I assume you know how to do a search, eh? It took me less than a minute to find the references at the foot of this post.Like the GOD-concept, some is known about dark energy and the like, but much of it is still a mystery. By the way, in my reading I have noticed that, beginning with the first particle-physicists--great thinkers like, Max Planck, Maxwell, Thompson, Einstein and others, physicists started saying things about nature that were once only said by the theologians and the philosophers, who were thought insane by the "scientists" of their day. Theology/philosophy/psychology are all of great interest to me. Yes, it was once said of me, when I wrote articles in a Toronto paper about using hypnosis--which I now call pneumatherapy--to treat life-threatening diseases: "He is not just out on a limb, he is on a twig on the end of the limb". BTW, I always work in cooperation with medical science.===============Meanwhile, check out:http://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus-areas/what-is-dark-energy/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_energy===========http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_physics#Historyhttp://www.google.ca/search?q=Planck%2C+Thompson%2C+Maxwell%2C+physicists&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.mandriva:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Edited by Revlgking (07/22/10 01:40 PM)Edit Reason: Always a good idea! _________________________ G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org Top
 #35535 - 07/22/10 01:52 PM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism Revlgking Megastar Registered: 01/17/07 Posts: 2311 Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ... TO THE ABOVE I ADD THE FOLLOWING NOTE:Physicists like Michio Kaku, Brian Swimme, Seth Lloyd and others have gone beyond particle physics and quantum mechanics. Talk now is about immeasurable energies which can be accessed and used by human thinkers, especially those who have artistic imaginations. Warning: Such energies can be used for good, or ill--to destroy, or to create. No wonder that Einstein said: "Imagination is more important than knowledge".====================http://www.rateitall.com/i-2211305-the-h...-schroeder.aspxhttp://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread544356/pg1http://www.futurefoundation.org/documents/hum_pro_sem2.pdf Edited by Revlgking (07/22/10 02:18 PM)Edit Reason: Always a good idea! _________________________ G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org Top
 #35539 - 07/23/10 02:37 AM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism kallog Megastar Registered: 03/17/10 Posts: 1100 Originally Posted By: RevlgkingIt took me less than a minute to find the references at the foot of this post.I didn't ask what dark energy is. Those links don't explain the connection between dark energy and being humane beings. Top
 #35540 - 07/23/10 02:41 AM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism kallog Megastar Registered: 03/17/10 Posts: 1100 Originally Posted By: RevlgkingPhysicists like Michio Kaku, Brian Swimme, Seth Lloyd and others have gone beyond particle physics and quantum mechanics. Talk now is about immeasurable energies which can be accessed and used by human thinkers, especiallySo those aren't dark energy because dark energy is measurable. I joined this thread to understand what it was about. Can you explain any of the ideas without the use of analogies or name-dropping? Those links don't seem to have an relevance - one wants me to buy a book, another is people talking about whether scientists are atheists or not. Is that what "threadism" is? The religious beliefs of scientists? Edited by kallog (07/23/10 02:56 AM) Top
 #35542 - 07/23/10 09:10 PM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism Revlgking Megastar Registered: 01/17/07 Posts: 2311 Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ... ABOUT DARK MATTER & DARK ENERGY===============================I just found the article, below, in http://nedwww.ipac.caltech.edu ...The article is about1. THE PREPOSTEROUS UNIVERSE (Title as given)[Do scientists expect us laity to believe that what is going on in the universe is contrary to nature, reason, or commonsense; absurd; senseless? Ridiculous? Laughable? Sounds very human (and theological?) to me. ] I am not making the following up: "Surprising experimental results are the most common driving force behind significant advances in scientific understanding. The recent discovery that the universe appears to be dominated by a component of "dark energy" qualifies as an extraordinarily surprising result; we have every reason to be optimistic that attempts to understand this phenomenon will lead to profound improvements in our pictures of gravitation, particle physics, and gravitation."I repeat, the above sounds very metaphysical, and even theological. And there is more:"1.1. Dark energyIn general relativity, a homogeneous and isotropic universe is characterized by two quantities, the spatial curvature kappa and scale factor a(t). These are related to the energy density $\rho$ by the Friedmann equation:" ... The equation cannot be reproduced here. It is in the article ...================================== Below, I give the link to the full article, from which I give the following brief quote with a very interesting question: Quote:2. WHAT MIGHT BE GOING ON?It may seem misguided to put a great deal of energy into exploring models of a small nonzero dark energy density when we have very little idea why the vacuum energy is not as large as the Planck scale. On the other hand, the discovery of dark energy may provide an invaluable clue in our attempts to solve this long-lasting puzzle, giving us reason to redouble our efforts. Explanations of the current acceleration of the universe can be categorized into one of three types: 1. The dark energy is a true cosmological constant, strictly unchanging throughout space and time. The minimum-energy configuration of the universe may have a small but nonvanishing energy density, or we may live in a false vacuum, almost degenerate with the true one but with a small nonzero additional energy. 2. The cosmological constant is zero, but a slowly-varying dynamical component is mimicking a nonzero vacuum energy. 3. Einstein was wrong, and the Friedmann equation does not describe the expansion of the universe. We briefly examine each of these possibilities in turn.2.1. An honest cosmological constantThe simplest interpretation of the dark energy is that we have discovered that the cosmological constant is not quite zero: we are in the lowest energy state possible (or, more properly, that the particles we observe are excitations of such a state) but that energy does not vanish. Although simple, this scenario is perhaps the hardest to analyze without an understanding of the complete cosmological constant problem, and there is correspondingly little to say about such a possibility. As targets to shoot for, various numerological coincidences have been pointed out, which may some day find homes as predictions of an actual theory. For example, the observed vacuum energy scale Mvac = 10-3 eV is related to the 1 TeV scale of low-energy supersymmetry breaking models by a "supergravity suppression factor":Equation 8 (8)In other words, MSUSY is the geometric mean of Mvac and MPlanck. Unfortunately, nobody knows why this should be the case. In a similar spirit, the vacuum energy density is related to the Planck energy density by the kind of suppression factor familiar from instanton calculations in gauge theories:Equation 9 ... http://nedwww.ipac.caltech.edu/level5/March01/Carroll/Carroll2.htmlIs it possible for someone trained in physics to put this information in journalese so that we lay readers with an interest in science, but are not all that familiar with the jargon of physics, could possibly understand. Edited by Revlgking (07/23/10 09:37 PM)Edit Reason: Always helpful! _________________________ G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org Top
 #35543 - 07/23/10 09:54 PM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism Revlgking Megastar Registered: 01/17/07 Posts: 2311 Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ... THE RELIGION OF MAX PLANCK==========================Quote:Max Planck: "Max Karl Ernst Ludwig Planck was born on April 23, 1858, in Kiel, Germany, the sixth child of a distinguished jurist and professor of law at the University of Kiel. The long family tradition of devotion to church and state, excellence in scholarship, incorruptibility, conservatism, idealism, reliability, and generosity became deeply ingrained in Planck's own life and work... In his later years, Planck devoted more and more of his writings to philosophical, aesthetic, and religious questions. Together with Einstein and Schrödinger, he remained adamantly opposed to the indeterministic, statistical worldview introduced by Bohr, Max Born, Werner Heisenberg, and others into physics after the advent of quantum mechanics in 1925-26. Such a view was not in harmony with Planck's deepest intuitions and beliefs. The physical universe, Planck argued, is an objective entity existing independently of man; the observer and the observed are not intimately coupled, as Bohr and his school would have it." [Source: http://astro.estec.esa.nl/SA-general/Projects/Planck/mplanck/mplanck.html].From: Rich Deem, "Famous Scientists Who Believed in God", last modified 19 May 2005, on "Evidence for God from Science" website (http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html; viewed 5 October 2005):Planck made many contributions to physics, but is best known for quantum theory, which has revolutionized our understanding of the atomic and sub-atomic worlds. In his 1937 lecture "Religion and Naturwissenschaft," Planck expressed the view that God is everywhere present, and held that "the holiness of the unintelligible Godhead is conveyed by the holiness of symbols." Atheists, he thought, attach too much importance to what are merely symbols. Planck was a churchwarden from 1920 until his death, and believed in an almighty, all-knowing, beneficent God (though not necessarily a personal one). [I suspect that he would agree: GOD is Being, not A being.]Both science and religion wage a "tireless battle against skepticism and dogmatism, against unbelief and superstition" with the goal "toward God!"[Source:] J. L. Heillron, Dilemmas of an Upright Man (1986) http://www.adherents.com/people/pp/Max_Planck.html[b][/b] Edited by Revlgking (07/23/10 09:58 PM)Edit Reason: Always helpful! _________________________ G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org Top
 #35544 - 07/24/10 03:37 AM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism kallog Megastar Registered: 03/17/10 Posts: 1100 Originally Posted By: Revlgking[Do scientists expect us laity to believe that what is going on in the universe is contrary to nature, reason, or commonsense; absurd; senseless? Ridiculous? Laughable? Sounds very human (and theological?) to me. ] Contrary to nature - noContrary to reason - noContrary to commonsense - yesAbsurd - noSenseless - yesRidiculous - noLaughable - noPeople who don't think critically often mix up these terms. Just because one person doesn't understand something doesn't mean it's absurd. Commonsense is handy for common situations but there's no reason we should expect it to be relevant to things we have no experience with.Quote:I repeat, the above sounds very metaphysical, and even theological. And there is more:Nothing metaphysical, theological or humane in there at all. If you replace the term "dark energy" with "hydrogen rich gas" does it still give you those emotions? Top
 #35545 - 07/24/10 03:42 AM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism kallog Megastar Registered: 03/17/10 Posts: 1100 Originally Posted By: RevlgkingTHE RELIGION OF MAX PLANCKYou're coming back to religious beliefs of scientists. Is this an important aspect of 'whole and threadism'? That and dark energy. Is that what it is? Just two unrelated concepts being described by a single name? Top
 #35563 - 07/24/10 05:29 PM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism samwik Megastar Registered: 10/10/06 Posts: 1163 Loc: Colorado Originally Posted By: kallogOriginally Posted By: RevlgkingPhysicists like Michio Kaku, Brian Swimme, Seth Lloyd and others have gone beyond particle physics and quantum mechanics. Talk now is about immeasurable energies which can be accessed and used by human thinkers, especiallySo those aren't dark energy because dark energy is measurable. I joined this thread to understand what it was about. Can you explain any of the ideas without the use of analogies or name-dropping? Those links don't seem to have an relevance - one wants me to buy a book, another is people talking about whether scientists are atheists or not. Is that what "threadism" is? The religious beliefs of scientists? Isn't Dark Energy (or dark matter) "dark" by defition because it's un-measurable?Just because they can infer a certain amount of "something" must exist (to explain the current theories), doesn't mean "something" has been directly measured. It may not even exist, but it is only postulated to exist based on current theories. But dark stuff has never been directly observed or measured, has it?===...but regarding that 95% of the universe that is sugested to be composed of dark energy and dark matter....I think the idea that everything we know about the universe applies to only 5% of that universe means that there is a lot of room for things we don't understand. Or conversely, our understanding of the universe is only 5% correct--and even that 5% is not completely correct yet--so it just seems more likely that some unusual connectedness underlies the reality that we perceive. If the other 95% is as complex as this 5%, then it would be so much more likely that some omnipotent founding force informs this Creation.I just recently ran across this perspective that says things in a way better than I thought possible ...for trying to describe this broadly inclusive, somewhat mystical, view... a view that seems reasonable, but hard to express with definitive language. This is, imho, the best expression I've seen so far for this comprehensive idea:Originally Posted By: wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_LanganLangan has developed his own "theory of the relationship between mind and reality" which he calls the "Cognitive-Theoretic Model of the Universe (CTMU)"."I believe in the theory of evolution, but I believe as well in the allegorical truth of creation theory. In other words, I believe that evolution, including the principle of natural selection, is one of the tools used by God to create mankind."Langan explains on his website that he believes "since Biblical accounts of the genesis of our world and species are true but metaphorical, our task is to correctly decipher the metaphor in light of scientific evidence also given to us by God"...."This implies that we all exist in what can be called "the Mind of God", and that our individual minds are parts of God's Mind. They are not as powerful as God's Mind, for they are only parts thereof; yet, they are directly connected to the greatest source of knowledge and power that exists. This connection of our minds to the Mind of God, which is like the connection of parts to a whole, is what we sometimes call the soul or spirit, and it is the most crucial and essential part of being human." ==="I believe that there is a level on which science and religious metaphor are mutually compatible." -C.M. Langan===I also believe this; especially when you realize that our "science" is also only a metaphor (or theory/model) for this universe... this Creation we inhabit.~:) _________________________ Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire. Top
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