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#39301 - 08/04/11 04:54 PM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism [Re: Kyra M]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2219
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Originally Posted By: Kyra M
Hi Bill and Rev...If 'God' is Dark Energy and Dark Matter and this matter is through all the physical matter (estimated to be somewhere in the region of 5 percent of the Whole) then my theory is closer to Panentheism ...
Kyra, as I hope you know by now: I think of myself as a panENtheist--G0d is that which is in and through all there is. PanENtheism is totally inclusive. It is impossible for me to think of any particle, no matter how small, that does not have G0d within it. G0d is that which is inside all things.

On the other hand, for me, because GOD, spatially speaking, is infinite, I can only imagine that there is no-thing outside GOD--only the mystery of infinity. In other words, there is nothing larger than GOD--the infinite process of being.

GOD AND TIME
Similarly, thinking of time, GOD is the eternal now. However, using the principle of relativity we can measure time at the local level.

WHY I CALL MYSELF A UNITHEIST
While I respect sincere panentheists I do it to avoid confusing panentheism with pantheism--'god' as the sum of all physical things--I prefer to say: I am a 'unitheist'--'god' is all physical things, plus that which we think of as mental and spiritual reality.

For unitheism 'god' is definitely not a judgmental busybody listening to all our thoughts--the kind of 'god' written about in many parts of the Bible--demanding that, on pain of being sent to the flames of hell, we all become his slaves, kiss his butt and become obedient members of his one "true" church, synagogue, temple, mosque, whatever--and other such nonsense. Much traditional religion is a pack of hypocritical nonsense. And, as minister, I have said as much on more than one occasion.

WHAT DO ATHEISTS THINK OF UNITHEISM?
I have talked to many about this. I find that atheists who want to think of themselves as good people--that is, people who choose to do their best to be moral, ethical and loving human beings--find it very difficult, if not impossible, to reject unitheism.

I have had many an atheist say to me: "Well, if what you say is so, that I do not have to hang up my brains with my hat; that I can ask my questions and hang on to my sincere doubts, then I am not an atheist and I am willing to keep an open mind."

As a newly-ordained and young United Church minister assigned to serve in Labrador, I once baptized--at his personal request--one such an atheist. I met him July, 1953. Then he was the assistant manager of the newly-built Hudson Bay store--the first such store in Happy Valley/Goosebay, Labrador--my first assignment as a minister. My wife (Jean) and I were both 23. No children, yet. Later, we had a daughter and then a son--now in their fifties.

Later, the young atheist became an active member of my church and, to my amazement, went on to become an ordained minster. Interestingly, because he married an Anglican lady, who, at the time, happened to be a member of my church, he went on to become an Anglican minister. Well, how about that!

A lover of the north, the Rev. Hugo Mueller, served his whole ministry in Labrador, north of Newfoundland and Quebec. Quite a story. And now, at 81, I am sure you will understand when I say that I have many other such stories to tell.

Kyra, after you reflect on and maybe respond to the above, later I will comment on:
Quote:
Kyra "... if however we see 'God' as another entity, an unknown quantity so to speak, as well as the Dark Energy and Dark Matter (and of course physical matter) than we see my theory with leanings to the Pantheist beliefs.

What I believe is the Whole is joined and is everything, and God, which has biblical connotations, does not have to be part of the equation. But everyone should be open to believe what they wish."



Edited by Revlgking (08/04/11 06:01 PM)
_________________________
GOD?--thank GOD which is the Gift Of Discernment & helps us be god-like


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Of Interest?
#39309 - 08/05/11 08:05 AM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2219
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Kyra, please clarify what you mean when you say:
Quote:
What I believe is the Whole is joined and is everything, and God, which has biblical connotations, does not have to be part of the equation. But everyone should be open to believe what they wish."
Questions: 1. What is the difference between a 'god' who has biblical connotations and one that does not? 2. When you say, "everyone should be open" what do you mean? Do you mean that everyone should be free to believe what they want to believe?
Me? I take freedom of belief for granted, and I am all for it. I am also free to will, think, imagine and opine. But what about freedom to act? I am not free to break the law of the land, no matter what I believe--that is, unless I am prepared to suffered the consequences--agreed?

ABOUT THE GOALS AND CONSEQUENCES OF BELIEFS
By the way, it is my belief and opinion that my thoughts, imaginings, opinions and beliefs--and certainly the actions which spring from them--have consequences. Some are good, some are not so good and some can be be downright evil.

Therefore, when we say that we believe in 'god' and give a form to that idea we should we also have in mind some idea as to what we expect 'god' to be like and what we expect him--Or is it a her?--to do for and to us. As child, like most children, I grew up with the idea that 'god' was a king, or a lord, or a father-figure who saw and heard everything I did.

THE VALUE OF SKEPTICISM
Looking back, I am glad that I became a skeptic very early in life. As a teenager I almost became and atheist. My skepticism led me away from this, however, and is also what led me to unitheism.

UNITHEISM IS BASED ON DEEDALISM, NOT JUST CREEDALISM
Accepting the idea that creeds that are truly flexible can be useful, unitheism is more about deeds than creeds. As a unitheist I accept the idea that moderate pain and suffering can be useful guides to our finding physical, mental and spiritual peace of mind and well-being.

THE GOAL OF UNITHEISM
I also accept that the goal of unitheism is to help us eliminate unnecessary pain and suffering.
_________________________
GOD?--thank GOD which is the Gift Of Discernment & helps us be god-like


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#39458 - 08/12/11 09:38 PM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism [Re: Revlgking]
Kyra M Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 90
The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Kyra K 2009
Andrea is discussing this with me.

I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.
Probably not. So, when do you want to start?[Remember, you did ask me to help you.)
Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.
Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.
Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.
Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?
Well, what do you think?
It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?
I wish it was.
Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.
Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.
Which is which?
Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.
You say seemingly?
Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy.
We are not aware that we are aware?
Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.
Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?
Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.
Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.
Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.
I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.
I’m listening.
A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.
Death?
After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock.
Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.
That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?
Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.
Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?
I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’
Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.
So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.
And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness.
The awareness of the Universe.
The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.
Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?
Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.
Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?
Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion.
Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.
Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol.
What are the advantages of believing in this?
Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.
And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.
Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.
How so?
Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.
Is all suffering karma then?
No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.
Now, how can I get this straight?
I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.
1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.
2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.
Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole.
But they still would be?
Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.
But you said..?
The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.
We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.
I see, make it/them aware.
Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away.

Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.
Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.

4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.
Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust.

5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.
We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.

6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism.

7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.

8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.
Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?
Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.
And the Light Energy has always known.
Precisely.

NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves.

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#41543 - 11/19/11 12:16 AM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism [Re: Kyra M]
Kyra M Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 90


The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Kyra K 2009
Andrea is discussing this with me.

I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.
Probably not. So, when do you want to start?[Remember, you did ask me to help you.)
Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.
Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.
Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.
Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?
Well, what do you think?
It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?
I wish it was.
Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.
Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.
Which is which?
Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.
You say seemingly?
Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy.
We are not aware that we are aware?
Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.
Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?
Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.
Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.
Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.
I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.
I’m listening.
A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.
Death?
After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock.
Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.
That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?
Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.
Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?
I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’
Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.
So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.
And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness.
The awareness of the Universe.
The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.
Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?
Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.
Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?
Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion.
Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.
Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol.
What are the advantages of believing in this?
Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.
And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.
Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.
How so?
Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.
Is all suffering karma then?
No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.
Now, how can I get this straight?
I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.
1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.
2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.
Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole.
But they still would be?
Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.
But you said..?
The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.
We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.
I see, make it/them aware.
Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away.

Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.
Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.

4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.
Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust.

5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.
We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.

6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism.

7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.

8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.
Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?
Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.
And the Light Energy has always known.
Precisely.

NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves.




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#41860 - 12/21/11 02:04 PM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism [Re: Kyra M]
Tutor Turtle Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1159
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Holy s*it..10 pages with the same thing repeated over and over again and the conversation going nowhere. That has to be a record!
_________________________
Talkers are usually more articulate than doers, since talk is their specialty.





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#41873 - 12/23/11 12:25 AM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2219
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
Holy s*it..10 pages with the same thing repeated over and over again and the conversation going nowhere. That has to be a record!
Ellis and I are delighted at the brevity of this Holy, messy and stinky response!!! laugh
_________________________
GOD?--thank GOD which is the Gift Of Discernment & helps us be god-like


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#41874 - 12/23/11 12:41 AM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1159
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Pleased to accommodate, and also noticing that you are now speaking for Ellis..
_________________________
Talkers are usually more articulate than doers, since talk is their specialty.





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#41886 - 12/24/11 01:48 PM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2219
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
Pleased to accommodate, and also noticing that you are now speaking for Ellis...
And another stinky response, but thankfully, brief!
_________________________
GOD?--thank GOD which is the Gift Of Discernment & helps us be god-like


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#41887 - 12/24/11 02:01 PM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism [Re: Kyra M]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2219
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Originally Posted By: Kyra M
...
Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.

Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.
Which is which?...
Kyra, have you checked out PANENTHEISM, not to be confused with pantheism. Do it in Wikipedia, and let us know what you think.

BTW, TT is correct: Short paragraphs and direct language do make for good and "readable prose" for all of us. Agape/goodwill-love--The Love of the Christmas Spirit--to you and all posters.

To atheists: Happy Day-Before-Boxing Day, eh! laugh
_________________________
GOD?--thank GOD which is the Gift Of Discernment & helps us be god-like


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#41889 - 12/24/11 02:11 PM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Registered: 06/19/08
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
Pleased to accommodate, and also noticing that you are now speaking for Ellis...
And another stinky response, but thankfully, brief!
And to the point! wink
_________________________
Talkers are usually more articulate than doers, since talk is their specialty.





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#42318 - 01/27/12 06:23 PM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism [Re: Kyra M]
Kyra M Offline
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Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 90
The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Kyra K 2009
Andrea is discussing this with me.

I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.
Probably not. So, when do you want to start?[Remember, you did ask me to help you.)
Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.
Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.
Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.
Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?
Well, what do you think?
It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?
I wish it was.
Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.
Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.
Which is which?
Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.
You say seemingly?
Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy.
We are not aware that we are aware?
Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.
Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?
Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.
Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.
Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.
I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.
I’m listening.
A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.
Death?
After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock.
Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.
That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?
Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.
Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?
I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’
Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.
So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.
And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness.
The awareness of the Universe.
The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.
Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?
Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.
Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?
Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion.
Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.
Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol.
What are the advantages of believing in this?
Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.
And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.
Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.
How so?
Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.
Is all suffering karma then?
No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.
Now, how can I get this straight?
I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.
1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.
2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.
Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole.
But they still would be?
Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.
But you said..?
The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.
We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.
I see, make it/them aware.
Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away.

Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.
Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.

4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.
Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust.

5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.
We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.

6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism.

7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.

8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.
Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?
Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.
And the Light Energy has always known.
Precisely.

NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves.

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#42322 - 01/27/12 07:03 PM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism [Re: Kyra M]
redewenur Offline
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Registered: 02/14/07
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Kyra, are you aware that you posted the same text in its entirety 2 months ago?
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#42324 - 01/27/12 07:08 PM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism [Re: Kyra M]
Kyra M Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 90
Not wanting to sound like Pollyanna (but I guess I do) I’m hoping one or two readers will get something out of my concepts. A little peace of mind, or a different way of looking at things, perhaps. A good mind is always evolving, always questioning, always unsure. As Bertrand Russell once said, “Fools and fanatics are so sure of themselves, wise men so full of doubt.” He also said, “Many people would sooner die than think; In fact many do so.”
I’m reading AC Grayling’s The Good Book A secular Bible. He’s put together, in biblical type format, all the great teachings, musings and insight of the world’s many philosophers,and great minds, past and present. It’s illuminating reading, and once again I feel a paradigm shift in my thinking.

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#42325 - 01/27/12 07:57 PM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism [Re: Kyra M]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1159
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
I think I counted 18 repeated posts of the same thing, and 4 repetitions on two of the pages.

Reminds me of television where they repeat commercials over and over again.
_________________________
Talkers are usually more articulate than doers, since talk is their specialty.





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#42328 - 01/28/12 02:38 PM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism [Re: Kyra M]
Kyra M Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 90

TT you have stated a fact. I have given an answer. Peace, K.

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#42329 - 01/28/12 03:01 PM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism [Re: Kyra M]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1159
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Got your answer.
Although the topic is in reference to your repetitious posting, I gather you believe that once, or 4 times in a row, or 18 times in the course of the threads 10 pages is not enough to emphasize what it is that this thread is in reference to.

Finding it necessary to repeat yourself as many times as you do and hoping to get a bite seems a bit desperate.
Just my opinion...

Guess you would expect this type of a response to your style of repetitive posting.

Part of the whole and all.....(some imagine the totality of relative imagined parts as being all there is whistle )
_________________________
Talkers are usually more articulate than doers, since talk is their specialty.





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#42333 - 01/28/12 04:24 PM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism [Re: Kyra M]
Kyra M Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 90
Laughing here - getting a bite from you it seems! Thanks, TT -
Seriously though, got lots of response when I first posted - just putting it back out there now - not expecting replies, just a new reader getting something from it. Also I guess, as an adjunct to my Concept etc, part two.

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#42334 - 01/28/12 05:17 PM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism [Re: Kyra M]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2219
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Originally Posted By: Kyra M
Not wanting to sound like Pollyanna (but I guess I do) I’m hoping one or two readers will get something out of my concepts. A little peace of mind, or a different way of looking at things, perhaps.
Kyra M, this is a gentle warning not to set your hopes too high. First, the bad news; then the good news will make us feel better.

You have heard of the tsetse fly. It is a member of a genus of bloodsucking flies in the housefly family. It occurs only in Africa and it can transmit a sleep-causing disease.

HERE IS THE HEADS UP
--------------------
Now, on the Net--and not just on this site--"There is kind of fly", which those who have seen them, say "they looks like a small green turtle with wings." It is called the turtlelike-tutor fly (T-TF).

The goal of the T-TF is to make people who want to use forums to promote good values and read about positive t hings, feel sick rather than feel smile --well and good.

LET'S NOT BLAME THE VICTIMS
Good people, bitten by a T-TF, usually become, helplessly and hopelessly, contrary to what writers like you and me write. No fault of their own--they do not feel very well. Unfortunately, some feel sick Sad!

EXTREME CONTRARINESS
--------------------
Bitten by a T-TF, victims cannot agree on anything, not even among themselves. This includes simple things like the time of the day, or the colour of the sky. They will contradict anything that sounds valuable and positive.

Quotes like the following really drive them crazy:
Originally Posted By: Kyra M
A good mind is always evolving, always questioning, always unsure; “Fools and fanatics are so sure of themselves, wise men so full of doubt.” ... “Many people would sooner die than think; In fact many do so.”(Bertrand Russell)
"You gotta be joking" the TTF's will, over and over, repeat the message: "There is no truth but T-TFism. As geniuses, we have all the answers. Now listen! "

KEEP IN MIND: THE VICTIMS ARE HELPLESS
--------------------------------------
For example, write to victims of T-TFism about you experiencing values like reality, faith, hope, love, unity, at-one-ment, democracy, transparency, idealism, and the like, and they will usually remark, without explaining what they really mean, say that that all such values are tied to superstitions, to dualism and such.

With a very demeaning attitude, one recently said to me: "... you got some work to do" and "The Atonement still eludes you." You conclude
Originally Posted By: Kyra M
I’m reading AC Grayling’s The Good Book A secular Bible. He’s put together, in biblical type format, all the great teachings, musings and insight of the world’s many philosophers,and great minds, past and present. It’s illuminating reading, and once again I feel a paradigm shift in my thinking.
Kyra M, the victim of T-TF will likely respond to you with something like he responded to me: "Based on your push to advertise it as an ism rather than ..."

IS THERE GOOD NEWS?
--------------
There is! Simply begin as follows: Be cool and know we can have good fun, NOW! laugh
....


Edited by Revlgking (01/28/12 09:47 PM)
_________________________
GOD?--thank GOD which is the Gift Of Discernment & helps us be god-like


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#42335 - 01/28/12 06:43 PM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism [Re: Kyra M]
Kyra M Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 90
Oh Rev, that is priceless. So true - I've had another good laugh today. Thanks. :- )

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#42336 - 01/28/12 06:55 PM Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism [Re: Kyra M]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1159
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Oh reverend... smile
When there is At-ONE-ment how can there seriously be any victims?

People create their own realities.

Without the living, breathing experience of the ONE within all thoughts feeling and actions, one feels they are victims to the world outside of themselves, and yet, it is just their personal identification with that which they see as separate from the Self, due to the personal idolization of what they believe God/perfection to look like.

The body is an extension of the mind...., and the world.., an extension of the body..

All you experience is created by you... well your consciousness...
The ego which is conditioned thru beliefs and isms, filters what is created into dualistic perceptions of belief. There is nothing other than your Self..The One consciousness.
When you take up arms against the world outside of you, you take up arms against your own creative impulses thru the illusions of separation from your Self.
Helplessness (an illusion based on fear) is simply ignorance of reality and the connection to ones own Consciously created reflections of thought based on beliefs or experience.

Preachers who speak of the Good, and conversely look for evil, find evil in and amongst the determined personal identifications of good and evil.(The duality of the ego)

The Good news is... It's all good and it's all God.

That is Unity, (not necessarily Unitheism).
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Talkers are usually more articulate than doers, since talk is their specialty.





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