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#27128 - 07/15/08 08:37 AM Re: What Would We Choose To Do If... [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
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Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Right on, TT! generalizations, like half truths, invariably miss the real truth. IMO--an expression I use, frequently, to avoid generalizing--the real and precise truth about anything is so large as to be beyond the grasp of the human brain, even at the genius level.


Edited by Revlgking (07/15/08 08:49 AM)

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Of Interest?
#27131 - 07/15/08 04:21 PM Re: What Would We Choose To Do If... [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1474
Loc: Australia
Unfortunately 'we' are the public. All of us (avoiding 'we' here) who live in a democracy have to live by the law most acceptable to the majority--(what used to be called the 'masses,' or of you prefer, 'the great unwashed'). We all have an equal vote. 'We' may be a dissenting minority, but all our votes are of equal value, and the public loves a charismatic leader/ situation. If you doubt this look at the top-rating programme on your TV. I'll bet it's not a challenging drama or a mind improving talk on the emergence of contemporary sculpture. It's the same story in politics. We like a leader to charm and entertain us more than we want to be well-governed. We are lucky when the two coincide sometimes.

Of course it's different in a dictatorship, where the Alpha animal has total power and fights like the devil to preserve it.

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#27135 - 07/15/08 10:10 PM Re: What Would We Choose To Do If... [Re: Revlgking]
big fat pig Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 97
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
THIS IS AN EXPERIMENTAL THREAD. LET US SEE HOW IT GOES AND WHERE IT LEADS. IF IT DIES FROM LACK OF RESPONSE, SO BE IT!
=========================================================
Let Us Assume that all who read this post belong to a group of un-born foetuses--children within an hour, or so, of being born.

An angel--bringing us to a momentary consciousness--tells us: "You Are Given A Choice. You Can Choose be Born Into Life With all The Kinds Of Dangers and/or Opportunities Life Can Have In Store, Or You Can Choose Not To Be Born at all. What Do You Choose? Life? Or The Kind of Oblivion from Which You Now Came?

"At Birth you will have no memory that there was ever such a thing as life before, or evidence of life beyond birth. You willd just have to believe in one, or the other, and then make your choice.

"You will get no information about the kind of parents you will have, or about the kind of life there will be in store for you. You will just have to take your chances.

"Given the above, what will you choose? Conscious life. Or life in an unconscious oblivion?"
=========================================================
If you choose to respond, give your choice and then tell us why you make it. To keep new readers in the loop, you will need to refer then to this first post.

I will begin by saying: I choose life. Later I will give you the reasons for my choice.


this is a purely rhetorical question, all of the replies to this question are totally based on experience; that which an unborn lacks.
the human mind is a machine whose functions are to explore, to question, to learn and to search for and obtain experience; the mind of a fetus will certainly choose to continue to exist and gain the experience which it lacks...
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#27136 - 07/16/08 01:00 AM Re: What Would We Choose To Do If... [Re: big fat pig]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/07/07
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Loc: Australia
Or we could turn the proposition around and ask---"... if you were on your deathbed and were to be given the opportunity to live a randomly chosen (human) life again would you do so?" This time you would have the advantage of knowing what being alive was like, though not the actual life that you would have to live, ... would you have another go? Is life itself enough, or would it be too challenging? There's a great deal of variation in human existence, perhaps even too much to take such a risk.

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#27137 - 07/16/08 10:46 AM Re: What Would We Choose To Do If... [Re: Ellis]
redewenur Offline
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Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1823
Ellis: "There's a great deal of variation in human existence, perhaps even too much to take such a risk"

Very true. If it's to be completely random, then it's a statistical probably that we'll be born into an environment that's distinctly less comfortable, rather more challenging to the skills of survival, and offers considerably less opportunity for the kind of armchair philosophising that we tend to indulge in here.
_________________________
"Time is what prevents everything from happening at once" - John Wheeler

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#27141 - 07/16/08 01:08 PM Re: What Would We Choose To Do If... [Re: redewenur]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1174
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Quote:
Or we could turn the proposition around and ask---"... if you were on your deathbed and were to be given the opportunity to live a randomly chosen (human) life again would you do so?"

People have that opportunity every moment of every day. They make the choices they make according to what they believe is real.
In retrospect upon facing death, one tends to review their choices according to feelings and fear of the unknown future.
Rarely does one embrace life enough to never look back or even toward the unknown future which distracts one from the present moment.
People try to imagine "what if's" when the mind wanders out of the pure potential of being. Until one actually discovers this in themselves they continue to spin the wheel of Samsara, (birth and death) focusing on a past that is no longer here, and a future that never comes while stuck in the limbo of uncertainty and fear.
_________________________
Man's value isn't measured by God, or man's interpretation of man/God. Belief is temporary.





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#27143 - 07/16/08 08:51 PM Re: What Would We Choose To Do If... [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Keep in mind: I am RevLGK. I am using my son's, Turner, 'puter:
========================================================
Responding to what I wrote--way back (I have since chaged things to suit the suggestion made by Ellis.)--TT says, "...this is a purely a rhetorical question, all of the replies to this question are totally based on experience; that which an unborn lacks."

Ellis, my question is not rhetorical. That is, it is not one where I imply that I have the answer. It is speculative. This means that I want individuals to answer the question, as individuals.

I like Ellis' suggestion: Let us presume that we are at the point of our current death. If I were to die to day, given the opportunity, would I choose to do live again?

I would, providing I were given the opportunity to build on the kind life--or lives--I have already had.

What about you?

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#27147 - 07/17/08 12:09 AM Re: What Would We Choose To Do If... [Re: Anonymous]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2243
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
I apologize: My comments above: "...my question is not rhetorical", should be addressed to BFP, not to Ellis.


Edited by Revlgking (07/17/08 12:10 AM)
_________________________
G O D--Gift Of Discernment & to Generate Organize & Deliver. Will to have it & it WILL be ours


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#27159 - 07/17/08 03:00 PM Re: What Would We Choose To Do If... [Re: Revlgking]
big fat pig Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 97
Quote:
I like Ellis' suggestion: Let us presume that we are at the point of our current death. If I were to die to day, given the opportunity, would I choose to do live again?

I would, providing I were given the opportunity to build on the kind life--or lives--I have already had.

What about you?


thats a tough question, a part of me says no because of my nihilistic opinions, but what would be the guidelines of your resurrection? would you simply be given an extension of your life, or would you be reborn with the same mind/experiences you hold upon death... if it were an extension; i'd choose to rest in peace... rebirth; it would certainly be interesting to be born with the mind of an adult; how would this mind further develop itself??? would it become mega-intelligent? would it self destruct? would it lose functionality? what kind of fate would it meet? etc etc...

i recall reading someone's short-story on such a scenario(im pretty sure it was on this forum too) what would it feel like to have a highly functional mind but with an immature body?


Edited by big fat pig (07/17/08 03:05 PM)
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#27162 - 07/17/08 05:26 PM Re: What Would We Choose To Do If... [Re: big fat pig]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2243
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Originally Posted By: big fat pig
Quote:
I like Ellis' suggestion: Let us presume that we are at the point of our current death. If I were to die to day, given the opportunity, would I choose to do live again?

I would, providing I were given the opportunity to build on the kind life--or lives--I have already had.

What about you?
That's a tough question! A part of me says no, because of my nihilistic opinions.

BFP, I respect your opinion.

Meanwhile, may I ask: What value is there in believing in nothing? Unless nihilists can produce the evidence that life is meaningless, in my opinion, it is much more fun, challenge and mystery to believe that life is meaningful, and that there is something wonderful beyond this present life.


You ask: "What would be the guidelines of your resurrection?"
I prefer to see it as reincarnation.

BTW, the following may seem like bragging, but I am merely reporting the facts.

I was born into a very poor and unsophisticated family. They were, as I recall, all caring people. But my parents and 6 older siblings had a minimum level of education. Despite this, at a young age, I seemed to have a lot of interests and knowledge which I did not have to learn.

For example, among other things, I could read before I was in grade one. I could draw and paint, well, at a very early age. Though I never had the financial resources to take music lessons, I was very fond of the classics--music, opera and the like--without having to be exposed to it by my elders. On my own, I learned to play the violin.

In High School--grades 7,8,9,10 and 11--I had one teacher. He allowed me, and one other student--a friendly rival for marks--who made the grade, to do grades 7 and 8 in one year. Then, with my teacher's consent, I skipped grade 9 and went on to pass grades 10 and 11 with high enough marks to go one to university.

I could have gone on at 16. However, because I had to have some money to do so, I worked for a year--as grocery clerk and then in the iron ore mines. At 17 I entered university.


You ask: Would you simply be given an extension of your life, or would you be reborn with the same mind/experiences you hold upon death... if it were an extension; i'd choose to rest in peace...

I ask: Do we remember being given any choice this time? No! Then what makes us think it will be any different the next time?

You comment: "Rebirth; it would certainly be interesting to be born with the mind of an adult; how would this mind further develop itself? Would it become mega-intelligent? would it self destruct? would it lose functionality? what kind of fate would it meet? etc etc..."

BFP, In my humble opinion, I feel I was born with what you call, "the mind of an adult". And, believe you me: it has not been all fun and games.



Edited by Revlgking (07/17/08 09:52 PM)
_________________________
G O D--Gift Of Discernment & to Generate Organize & Deliver. Will to have it & it WILL be ours


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#27182 - 07/18/08 08:07 PM Re: What Would We Choose To Do If... [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1474
Loc: Australia
The whole point is that the future existence is to be random. Thus if you feel that your present state is very successful and that this situation is due entirely to your own efforts and you could do it again no matter how the choice eventuated you will choose to come back. (Model -The self believer) So too perhaps, if you feel you had a bad turn this time and are willing to chance another go, maybe as a millionaire this time. (Model- the risk-taker or gambler) Or not! (model- the doubter, or possibly the realist)

Or maybe, like me, you would say---well it's been great, but it's time to say good-bye, and drift off into oblivion after a mostly happy life! Which is what I think I will do anyway! (Model- the non-believer in an afterlife).


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#27192 - 07/19/08 12:09 PM Re: What Would We Choose To Do If... [Re: Ellis]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2243
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
MODEL: THE CREATIVE AND LOVE-BASED ARTIST.
==========================================
ME? I am not entirely self-made.

I think of myself as the end result of a long process of time, involving evolution, including accidents--even tragedies--my family history, the larger community, which included many other individuals, including teachers and friends and a wide variety of circumstances, and, as noted: not all pleasant ones.

However, as I chose to become, and became, more and more spiritually curious and active, and as I put into practice the Golden Rule with others, I slowly began to realize that I can become more and more pneumatologically conscious.

DOCTOR WILLIAM OSLER SPOKE OF THE VALUE OF LIVING IN DAY-TIGHT COMPARTMENTS
Quote:
In the spring of 1871, a young man picked up a book and read twenty-one words which changed his future, and helped him to overcome all his worries--from passing the final examinations to how to he was going to make a living.

His name is “Sir William Osler”. Here are the words he read:

“Our main business is not to see what lies dimly at a distance, but to do what lies clearly at hand”

Forty-two years later, in reveling the secrets of his success, Sir William Osler stated that it was owing to the concept of living in Day-Tight Compartments.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=BIR9VqzRDloC&pg=PT13&lpg=PT13&dq=Dr.+William+Osler,+Day-tight+compartments&source=web&ots=zXsDbBAlL5&sig=NQGxU7Moosw8D0WV-ed9wHoqSls&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=8&ct=result

Decades ago, I choose to do the same. As a result, I began receiving more and more control over what I am psychologically and somatologically. This means that, now, I am not as prone to be the victim of accidents, or of others as I used to be. Like the Now, I could fall on my face tomorrow, but, today, I choose not to.

"Technology is dominated by two types of people: those who understand what they do not manage, and those who manage what they do not understand." - Putt's

The future? Think of an artist standing in front of blank canvas, or a piece of wood or stone ready to be made into a work of art. Or think of a writer--could be a novelist, a poet, a composer, whatever--looking at a blank piece of paper or computer screen. Armed with imagination, technical skills and the creative will, most artists are capable of creating something that can be a joy, forever. This how I look at the future--a work of art, being created in the now.
_________________________
G O D--Gift Of Discernment & to Generate Organize & Deliver. Will to have it & it WILL be ours


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#27653 - 08/31/08 03:59 PM Re: What Would We Choose To Do If... [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2243
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
PROSTATE. Because of my age, 78, for some time now I have been interested in looking at information about this interesting part of the male anatomy. The following is a start.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostate_cancer
Quote:
... Prostate cancer develops most frequently in men over fifty. This cancer can occur only in men, as the prostate is exclusively of the male reproductive tract.

It is the most common type of cancer in men in the United States, where it is responsible for more male deaths than any other cancer, except lung cancer.
In the UK it is also the second most common cause of cancer death after lung cancer. Around 35,000 men in the UK are diagnosed per year; where around 10,000 die of it.

However, many men who develop prostate cancer never have symptoms, undergo no therapy, and eventually die of other causes. That is because malignant neoplasms of the prostate are, in most cases, slow-growing, and because most of those affected are over 60. Hence they often die of causes unrelated to the prostate cancer, such as heart/circulatory disease, pneumonia, other unconnected cancers, or old age....

Recently, as part of a regular check-up I was diagnosed as having a high PSA. Then I had a needle biopsy. Cancer was found.

Then I had two further tests to see if it had spread. I had a bone scan and a scan of the glands in the pelvic area. I am happy to report that, at this point, I am among the fortunate.

BTW, I also feel that I will be led to have further consultations with the kind of experts, worthy of respect, as to what to do next. I have the feeling that I will be led to the experts I need. Furthermore, I will be guided to make the appropriate and necessary choices. As time goes by, we'll see what those choices will be.

I am under no illusion that I will live forever, at least not in this form. Physically speaking, I accept that I live is a very physical and vulnerable form.

Do I want to live forever?

Yes, but not in this present and physical form.

Now, take a look at what Dr. Machio Kaku says about the possible forms which are out there.

http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com/members/mkaku.htm



Edited by Revlgking (08/31/08 04:10 PM)

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