Welcome to
Science a GoGo's
Discussion Forums
Please keep your postings on-topic or they will be moved to a galaxy far, far away.
Your use of this forum indicates your agreement to our terms of use.
So that we remain spam-free, please note that all posts by new users are moderated.


The Forums
General Science Talk        Not-Quite-Science        Climate Change Discussion        Physics Forum        Science Fiction

Search Forums
Custom Search
Who's Online
0 registered (), 85 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Posts
Termodynamica Michelson Morley
by newton
Today at 12:44 AM
It's Them Damned Atheists!!
by Tutor Turtle
12/20/14 07:45 PM
A WEEK AT THE MACKENZIE HEALTH CENTRE, MARKHAM, ON
by Revlgking
12/19/14 07:47 PM
Cryosphere still warming.
by Amaranth Rose II
12/19/14 06:14 PM
Life on Mars?
by Amaranth Rose II
12/19/14 04:46 PM
Build your own measurement standard
by Amaranth Rose II
12/18/14 03:11 PM
Top Posters (30 Days)
Orac 45
Bill S. 44
Bill 38
paul 8
Revlgking 7
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#25860 - 04/30/08 11:31 PM Humanzee? Ape Human Cross
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK

Half man, half chimp - should we beware the Apeman's coming?

A LEADING scientist has warned a new species of "Humanzee", created from breeding apes with humans, could become a reality.
In fact producing a Humanzee, an Ape Human hybrid is quite legal.

Although the Human Fertilisation and Embryo Bill prohibits the placement of animal sperm into a woman.
The reverse is not prohibited. In fact its not even mentioned.

Dr Calum MacKellar, director of research at the Scottish Council on Human Bioethics, warned the controversial draft Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill did not prevent human sperm being inseminated into animals.
He said if a female chimpanzee was inseminated with human sperm the two species would be closely enough related, that a hybrid could be born.

So could a half Man half Chimp, Humanzee breed really be possible?

Yes says Dr MacKellar. He said: "The chromosomal difference between a goat and a sheep, a Shoat is greater than between humans and chimpanzees."

Professor Bob Millar, director of the Medical Research Council Human Reproductive Sciences Unit, based in Edinburgh, agreed. Viable offspring would be possible. He said: "Donkeys can mate with horses and create infertile offspring; maybe that could happen with chimpanzees."

Professor Hugh McLachlan, professor of applied philosophy at Glasgow Caledonian University's School of Law and Applied Sciences, said although the idea was "troublesome", he could see no ethical objections to the creation of Humanzees.
Any species came to be what it is now because of all sorts of interaction in the past," he said.

Dr MacKellar said the resulting Humanzee's could raise ethical dilemmas, such as whether it would be treated as human or animal, and what rights it would have.
If there was a possibility of Humanzees developing a conscience, you would have a difficult dilemma on your hands."

There are a number of other hybrid species that have already been created, using only artificial insemination.
Lions and tigers have been bred to create Ligers, the world's largest cats.
And there are also Zorses (zebra and horse), Wholphins (whale and dolphin), Tigons, (tiger and lion), Lepjags (leopard and jaguar) and Zonkeys, (zebra and donkey).

Most hybrid animals have been bred in captivity, but there are
examples of the process occurring in the wild.
This is far more common in plants than animals, but in April 2006 a hunter in Canada's North-west Territories shot a polar bear whose fur had an orange tint.
Research showed that it had a grizzly bear father, and it became known as a Pizzly.

In 2003, DNA analysis confirmed that five odd-looking felines found in Maine and Minnesota were bobcat-lynx hybrids, dubbed blynxes.

Dr MacKellar said, fascination might be enough of a motive for
scientists to try crossing the two species, to produce a Humanzee.

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/latestnews/Exclusive-Half-man-half-chimp.4028970.jp


_________________________
.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



Top
Of Interest?
#25863 - 05/01/08 06:35 AM Re: Humanzee? Ape Human Cross [Re: Mike Kremer]
big fat pig Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 97
i just have one question: WHY?!?
_________________________
seize the day

Top
#25869 - 05/01/08 12:59 PM Re: Humanzee? Ape Human Cross [Re: big fat pig]
Blobby2 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/14/08
Posts: 24

Hi Gogo's our college debating society has decided to hold a debate on this subject toward end of term.
We wonder how humans might treat the the results of a familly of about 4 intelligent humazees. Mother an father and 2 children? Would we use them to help us ? Do you think they might be able to talk with us? Would they make great farmers?
Our monitor suggested that we go and see the film Planet-of-the-Apes

any ideas plus your suggestions are welcome

Thank you Blobby2

Top
#25875 - 05/01/08 08:38 PM Re: Humanzee? Ape Human Cross [Re: Blobby2]
odin1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 136
Loc: North Carolina, USA
I saw something on "Monster Quest" a few weeks ago about the Russians under Stalin trying to create an "Ape Army" to fight the "Capitalistic Pigs!" They had one lady that volunteered for mother Russia to be impregnated with the Simian sperm. I believe if my memory is correct the Russian scientist was given about $10,000.00 by Stalin for this endeavor. He was never able to impegnate the lady before his funding was cut off. The plan was to have a super army-to mix intelligence with brawn.

However, I believe she did get some flowers from the Ape, and remained friends for quite some time.

I'm serious!
about the proposed ape army
odin1
_________________________
People will forgive you for anything -but being right !
odin1



Top
#25878 - 05/01/08 11:25 PM Re: Humanzee? Ape Human Cross [Re: Mike Kremer]
Colby S.
Unregistered


I think it would be interesting to see, if the breeding was successful, how the "Humanzee" would develope. If it had the ability of abstract thinking and speaking it could possible learn from us and could, in turn, help us learn from it.

Top
#25879 - 05/02/08 07:40 AM Re: Humanzee? Ape Human Cross [Re: Anonymous]
TheFallibleFiend Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1940
Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
It's a tossup whether this thread belongs in NQS or the general science thread. I suspect this experiment will be eventually.

It's not clear that humans and chimps are close enough to produce offspring. Interesting experiment, but also highly unethical. Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should.

What do we do with this creature? How do we treat it? Do we stick it in a lab for further testing? How close does a creature have to be to us before we recognize it has rights? Can we do with it whatever we wish?

One thing we might do is start such an experiment in controlled experiment and then abort at N months, if successful. Maybe that would get it out of our collective system. But maybe not.


Top
#25880 - 05/02/08 10:20 AM Re: Humanzee? Ape Human Cross [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
big fat pig Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 97
i don't think that cross breeding people with animals will expand our understanding of genetics, rather it is just an application of our knowledge. we need not apply our knowledge in places where moral boundaries will/may be crossed.


Edited by big fat pig (05/02/08 10:20 AM)
_________________________
seize the day

Top
#25882 - 05/02/08 12:16 PM Re: Humanzee? Ape Human Cross [Re: odin1]
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: odin1
I saw something on "Monster Quest" a few weeks ago about the Russians under Stalin trying to create an "Ape Army" ........>The plan was to have a super army-to mix intelligence with brawn.

However, I believe she did get some flowers from the Ape, and remained friends for quite some time.

I'm serious!
about the proposed ape army
odin1


Originally Posted By: Mike Kremer


Well you might be serious, but that idea is more worthy of inclusion in a Comic Strip.....unless of course these Scottish genetic scientists were to produce a Man/Simian Humanzee.

If it was'nt for the fact that it was thought up in Scotland, where the first famous Dolly sheep was cloned,
plus the fact that they make it sound so easy.....impregnation only is required
I would'nt have given it another thought, let alone a mention.
big fat pig, got it exactly right when he asked...WHY?

If it is as easy as they say, I expect some one some where will try and produce a Humanzee.....just because it's possible?
But whether the result is published would very much depend upon the physical, and mental, attributes of this Humanzee.
I cannot see how cross breeding a human with a lesser intelligent ape could result in any benefit to us humans?
What if it were to increase the intellectual capacity of the ape?

Still the possibility of a smooth skinned, white, hairless ape being born would, I suspect give us all convulsions of horror.
Or visa-versa?
Its because we dont know, that some-one will try to find out.


_________________________
.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



Top
#25883 - 05/02/08 03:35 PM Re: Humanzee? Ape Human Cross [Re: Mike Kremer]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello Mike,

I am joking some, but it's really not funny, you're right these people are serious. I think this fits in with our discussion on
"Science Means Freedom".

It is my opinion that this is ethically wrong and morally wrong.
If I could crack one more joke though. What would Darwin say when he knew after all these millions of years of evolution, some jackleg wants to revert back to Apes?

I agree with you and bfp-Why?

odin1

Top
#25911 - 05/03/08 04:36 PM Re: Humanzee? Ape Human Cross [Re: Anonymous]
odin1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 136
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Hello all,

read this link.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/viewnews.php?id=125062

It is an article about "humanzee".

odin1
_________________________
People will forgive you for anything -but being right !
odin1



Top
#25920 - 05/03/08 08:10 PM Re: Humanzee? Ape Human Cross [Re: odin1]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1487
Loc: Australia
I can think of a use for this nasty idea. If chimps and humans proved compatible it could become possible to implant an IVF foetus into a surrogate chimp to gestate. Would this be ethically acceptable? I cannot think of any objection so long as no extra harm would come to the foetus.

Top
#25921 - 05/03/08 08:19 PM Re: Humanzee? Ape Human Cross [Re: Ellis]
odin1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 136
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Hello everyone,

I guote Colby S.

"I think it would be interesting to see, if the breeding was successful, how the "Humanzee" would develope. If it had the ability of abstract thinking and speaking it could possible learn from us and could, in turn, help us learn from it."

I was told that Einstein recieved a letter from a woman, I don't know who she was but she offered to have a child with him for the purpose of an offspring that had her looks and his brains.
As the story goes he wrote her back and said that sounded nice but suppose the child had her brains and his looks!

Maybe, something to consider about humanzees.

best regards,
odin1
_________________________
People will forgive you for anything -but being right !
odin1



Top
#25944 - 05/04/08 06:59 PM Re: Humanzee? Ape Human Cross [Re: odin1]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1487
Loc: Australia
They would be an exploitable underclass. An irresistible thought for some I think.

Top
#25946 - 05/04/08 07:33 PM Re: Humanzee? Ape Human Cross [Re: Ellis]
big fat pig Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 97
ellis, that would be horrible haha, imagine telling your son/daughter that they were born by an ape, it would be traumatic.
_________________________
seize the day

Top
#26011 - 05/10/08 01:43 AM Re: Humanzee? Ape Human Cross [Re: big fat pig]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1487
Loc: Australia
What would be the legal position of such a chimera? Is it/he/she a human or an animal?

Top
#26874 - 06/25/08 05:40 PM Re: Humanzee? Ape Human Cross [Re: Ellis]
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: Ellis
They would be an exploitable underclass. An irresistible thought for some I think.


Originally Posted By: Mike Kremer


Or at least a class between Humans and Apes.?

I thought the following item deserves a mention within these postings?
"Spanish Parliament to Extend Human Rights to Apes"

http://uk.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUKL256586320080625


_________________________
.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



Top
#26875 - 06/25/08 10:14 PM Re: Humanzee? Ape Human Cross [Re: Mike Kremer]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The theather play "Zoo" by Peter Shaefer (I think anyways.. same author who wrote "Equus") explores this topic. Was written decades ago.

Top
#29012 - 01/02/09 08:28 PM Re: Humanzee? Ape Human Cross [Re: Mike Kremer]
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: Mike Kremer
Originally Posted By: Ellis
They would be an exploitable underclass. An irresistible thought for some I think.


Originally Posted By: Mike Kremer


Or at least a class between Humans and Apes.?

I thought the following item deserves a mention within these postings?
"Spanish Parliament to Extend Human Rights to Apes"

http://uk.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUKL256586320080625



[quote=Mike Kremer]
Here is an addition to this interesting post.
With the thoughts of RICHARD DAWKINS posted 2nd Jan: 2009.

"How would you feel about a half-human half-chimp hybrid?"

Dawkins speculates about how a human-chimp hybrid or the discovery of a living Homo erectus would change the way we see the World.
......>2. A successful hybridisation between a human and a chimpanzee. Even if the hybrid were infertile like a mule, the shock waves that would be sent through society would be salutary. This is why a distinguished biologist described this possibility as the most immoral scientific experiment he could imagine: it would change everything! It cannot be ruled out as impossible, but it would be surprising.

***My thoughts
As I wrote previously.....It may be immoral, ...but a Ape/Human chimera, is quite legal.
More of Richard Dawkins thoughts below.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2009/jan/02/richard-dawkins-chimpanzee-hybrid

_________________________
.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



Top
#29015 - 01/03/09 10:23 AM Re: Humanzee? Ape Human Cross [Re: Mike Kremer]
Iztaci Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 84
Loc: Rocky Mt. West
I can't imagine a greater waste of time than to debate the morality of such a program. History makes it more than plain that morality never has any ultimate say in such things at all. Just a few years ago "moral outrage" would have seemed to cancel any chance of even cloning a sheep. So... we'll have the usual noise and clamor but in the background, in some state-of-the-art lab, we'll be experimenting on a human/chimp cross. I'd have a hard time imagining it not going on right now. And I'd have a hard time thinking it won't be done.

People sling the word "morality" around as if it were something graven into a marble tablet on some mountain top somewhere just waiting for a prophet to retrieve for the masses. Truth be considered, there is nothing even approaching a consensus on the matter. There are as many "moralities" in the world as there are people. The word is about as definitive as the term “common sense”. In other words, a thing be moral if it agrees with your ideas of right and wrong. If it does not, it is , of course, “immoral”.

Paraphrasing what Einstein said of Ccommon Sense: “It’s the prejudice one accumulates before the age of eighteen.”.

Oh yeah, there will be plenty of noise. Lawyers will get rich. Labs may be bombed. The word pontification may have to be redefined.

And… maybe, just maybe, the ultimate insult to an otherwise useful system of generic nomenclature; "Homo Sapiens Sapiens" will be gut-shot and replaced with a less egotistical term.

_________________________
When you talk to me like I'm five, I want to write on you with a crayon. -- Joanna Hoffman

Top
#29037 - 01/04/09 10:44 PM Re: Humanzee? Ape Human Cross [Re: Iztaci]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1487
Loc: Australia
Whilst I agree with you that 'morality' is in the eye of the beholder I nonetheless feel that within the creation of a human-chimp (or other ape) chimera there is an underlying question regarding the morality of doing so. The aim of such an endeavour seems very suspect. The resultant cross would be likely to be stronger than a human in many aspects, but likely to be less intelligent. The uses that such a class of hybrids could be used for would be limited but open to horrific exploitation. As I mentioned earlier, such selection would produce a group ideal as a slave class, not only as servants but also as soldiers.

It seems to me that the immorality of this idea would be more in the fact that the result of this exploitaton had been anticipated and we had done nothing about it, rather than the act itself.


Edited by Ellis (01/04/09 10:47 PM)
Edit Reason: Spelling--more of a typo really

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



Moderator:  Amaranth Rose II, Kate, Mike Kremer 
Newest Members
Suki, skyshinee, Arthur, marwa_kotb, Charles
723 Registered Users
Sponsor
Facebook

We're on Facebook
Join Our Group

Science a GoGo's Home Page | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Contact Us
Features | News | Books | Physics | Space | Climate Change | Health | Technology | Natural World

Copyright © 1998 - 2013 Science a GoGo and its licensors. All rights reserved.