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#40928 - 10/13/11 02:49 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Bill S.]
Revlgking Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bill S.
Rev, interesting that you translated "a better place" as "there". I had thought of it more in terms of "here".
I have no problem thinking of G.O.D.--physically, mentally and spiritually speaking--as the eternal and infinite here and now.

It is my opinion that, depending on the choices we make, this here and now will tend to evolve towards that which is good and great, or ghastly and gruesome.
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G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#40943 - 10/13/11 12:29 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Turner]
Bill S. Offline
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If that which is "good and great" comes under the over-arching principle of G.O.D. do you have a similar over-arching principle for all that is "ghastly and gruesome"? Surely not S.A.T.A.N.
(selfish, angry, tainted and nasty) smile
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#40954 - 10/13/11 07:27 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Turner]
Bill S. Offline
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Quote:
Quote:
Rev, interesting that you translated "a better place" as "there". I had thought of it more in terms of "here".
have no problem thinking of G.O.D.--physically, mentally and spiritually speaking--as the eternal and infinite here and now.


There has to be a connection - somewhere!
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#40959 - 10/13/11 11:17 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Bill S.]
Revlgking Offline
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BS, you mentioned
Originally Posted By: Bill S.
... S.A.T.A.N. and acronymed it as selfish, angry, tainted and nasty smile
OK, I'll have a go. I think that we all have a Jekyll (G.O.D.-like) and Hyde (S.A.T.A.N.-like) side--selfish, arrogant, terrifying, angry & nasty--to our character. But, IMO, it is we who choose to be and act as one or the other.

Me? As a panentheistic unitheist, can't imagine that there is a separate god, or a satan, who makes us who we are, against our wills.
===============
This info is a great addition to my pool of knowledge:
DICTIONARY.COM DEFINES ACRONYM--which, in my experience is a very useful literary device. It has many uses.
ac·ro·nym
&#8194; &#8194;/&#712;ękr&#601;n&#618;m/ Show Spelled[ak-ruh-nim] Show IPA
noun
1.
a word formed from the initial letters or groups of letters of words in a set phrase or series of words, as Wac from Women's Army Corps, OPEC from Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, or loran from long-range navigation.

Laser--light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation technology--a very important modern technology--started as an acronym. It now has its own vast set of acronyms:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_acronyms
==================
2. verb (used with object)
to make an acronym of: The committee's name has been acronymed MIKE.
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#40974 - 10/14/11 10:31 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Turner]
Bill S. Offline
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Posts: 3570
Loc: Essex, UK
Originally Posted By: Rev
can't imagine that there is a separate god, or a satan, who makes us who we are, against our wills.


That's an interesting slant on the free will question. I had always thought it was a straightforward "contest" between those who thought we had no free will and therefor had no choice; and those who thought we had free will and could choose what we did, or how we were.

The "God/devil/Jodi Foster made me do it" people always seem a bit suspect, in one way or another.
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#40977 - 10/15/11 04:08 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Bill S.]
Revlgking Offline
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Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Originally Posted By: Bill S.
[quote=Rev] I can't imagine that there is a separate god, or a satan, who makes us who we are, against our wills.
Then you add:
Quote:
That's an interesting slant on the free will question. I had always thought it was a straightforward "contest" between those who thought we had no free will and therefore had no choice; and those who thought we had free will and could choose what we did. ...
The following is simply my opinion: If there is any contest, it is not between an angel of good who sits on our right shoulder whispering, "Be good! Or a demon of evil who sits on our left offering temptations.

Quote:
NEUTRALITY IN THE FACE OF EVIL IS A CHOICE TO HELP EVIL SUCCEED

Whether or not we consistently act and do that which is good, our being willing to do good helps us do it. For sure, I only help evil when I choose to do nothing. By the very act of choosing to be neutral, I make the evil choice not to do the good.
_________________________
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#40989 - 10/15/11 06:28 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Turner]
Bill S. Offline
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Registered: 08/20/10
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Loc: Essex, UK
Rev, the "contest" I referred to was between those who believed in, and those who denied free will; not between angels and demons, whichever shoulders one might imagine them to be sitting on.

BTW, your comment:
Quote:
an angel of good who sits on our right shoulder whispering, "Be good! Or a demon of evil who sits on our left offering temptations"


would be considered non-PC, as it casts a slur in the left-handed. One has to be so cautious these days. smile
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#40992 - 10/15/11 07:58 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Bill S.]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
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BS, The PC police are just now knocking on my door. Thanks for agreeing that you misquoted me:
Originally Posted By: Bill S.
What I really said was
Quote:
An angel of good who sits on one shoulder whispering, "Be good! Or a demon of evil who sits on the other offering temptations"
smile

_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#40997 - 10/16/11 12:29 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Turner]
Bill S. Offline
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Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 3570
Loc: Essex, UK
I'll go along with that, Rev. We can't have you locked up, what would SAGG do without your posts.
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#41022 - 10/17/11 06:15 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Bill S.]
Orac Offline
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Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
As some know my background I have no idea about religion because it was banned so I am sort of learning about it as I go in these days of freedom.

So can I ask a real basic question

Do all religions have the counter posing of good and evil or are there religions with only good or bad?

And Bill S I had to look up who Jodi Foster was hubba hubba she can make me do anything :-)


Edited by Orac (10/17/11 06:19 AM)
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#41071 - 10/19/11 10:10 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Orac]
Revlgking Offline
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Originally Posted By: Orac
... And Bill S I had to look up who Jodi Foster was hubba hubba she can make me do anything :-)
Orac, for a smile, leave out the dash,- in :-) Then you will get this smile. For a laugh, add the letter D to the colon, : and you will get this laugh
==================================
BTW (by the way), Orac, about religion:

I am thinking about asking my artist friend and co-founder of unitheism, Warren Farr--you can do a search on his name, for more info about him--if we should not change the name to unit-theism.

I suggest this because this is what I have in mind when I meta-tate on what IS--existence is an ever-expanding unit of being. I find that when I will to be at one with this unit, good things tend to happen; when I will to resist being part of the unit--which I am free to will, good things do not tend to happen.

Your comments and question will help me defend or abandon this idea. I am always open to constructive criticisms and questions.
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#41074 - 10/20/11 02:54 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Orac]
Revlgking Offline
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Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Originally Posted By: Orac
As some know my background I have no idea about religion because it was banned so I am sort of learning about it as I go in these days of freedom.
For me, this post raises many questions. For example:

1. Do you still live in the area in which you were raised? If so, Is there freedom of religion there, today? Where?

2. If yes, when was the ban lifted?

3. How much Church History and Bible History have you read?

4. Are you aware that the English language, the German Language and other European languages evolved as they did because of translations of the Bible?

Tell us more what more what you have in mind by this question you asked:
Quote:
Do all religions have the counter posing of good and evil or are there religions with only good or bad?
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#41224 - 10/29/11 10:20 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
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Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
3,000,000, on the way
I just checked the readership in the Not-Quite-Science Forum. Good to see how much interest there is in having an open dialogue about religion and its relationship to philosophy and the art of living--commonly called religion. In one way or another, depending on the kind of imagination we have, we all live our lives more or less religiously.

With the above in mind, I was amazed to find that the following thread--which I posted when I first came on line, using my wife's maiden name, Turner--as of today, now has over 2,900,000 hits:
http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthr...41074#Post41074
======================
Also, it is interesting to note that whenever scientists, especially physicists, think and write about that which is which is infinitely small, or infinitely large, it gives them pause to think that perhaps what we call the real, or physical, world is not all that "real" after all.
=======================================
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#41225 - 10/30/11 12:47 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
Go! Rev!!! It always makes me smile to see the way you are so excited about the success of your topic. And why not indeed, 3,000,000 (nearly)? It's a great achievement to get so many of us interested enough to reply (or contest) on this subject

A toast (of your own choosing) to Rev. Glug Glug!

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#41234 - 10/30/11 04:22 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Orac Offline
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Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

1. Do you still live in the area in which you were raised? If so, Is there freedom of religion there, today? Where?


I currently reside in USA so I do have religious freedom.


Originally Posted By: Revlgking

2. If yes, when was the ban lifted?


In my homeland the bans have been lifted but it is still deeply frowned upon by society friends tell me, I actually have not been back to my homeland and have no desire to. Most if they practice are sunni muslims but there are some russian orthodox.


Originally Posted By: Revlgking

3. How much Church History and Bible History have you read?


Read bits of the bible but I have problems with alot of the things like the story of creation which I couldn't take seriously. We all came from 2 people? we would be seriously imbreed.

Only later a more liberal religious friend explained a more open interpretation of adam would be men and eve being women so it may not directly mean 2 people but a more general number of men and women.

I discussed that with a jewish friend and almost got my head taken off ... apparently there is no ability to interpret to them.

In the end it all got very confusing and frustrating and I gave up.


Originally Posted By: Revlgking

4. Are you aware that the English language, the German Language and other European languages evolved as they did because of translations of the Bible?


No but I guess the quran would also form commonality to much of the middle east so I guess it makes sense.


[/quote]
Tell us more what more what you have in mind by this question you asked:
Quote:
Do all religions have the counter posing of good and evil or are there religions with only good or bad?
[/quote]

From my naive non religious background what all religions seem to cover is good versus evil, why we exist and morality issues?

I am fairly certain they all cover the later 2 but do all cover the good versus evil issue.
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I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

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#41241 - 10/31/11 03:47 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
PHILOSOPHY + SCIENCE + ART = LIFE

For me, being religious does not mean that I have to worship a god--one who is a separate being out, or up, there.

For me , being religious is the art of living--well, or not so well--depending on what we will (agape-love) it to be. It is what we do with our philosophy and our science. Art is about doing things.

Being religious in the best sense of the word involves living in community, which includes all people, and living with compassion--actually try to do our best to create art that is beautiful.

Some people create art that is not beautiful--even ugly--and some don't care.
_________________________
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#41244 - 10/31/11 05:03 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Revlgking]
Orac Offline
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Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Hmm I think you judge me a very bad person then :-)

Religion plays no real part in my life, and I am absolutely terrible at art and musical pursuits.

I am not sure what to make of your statement in that light :-)

The biggest issues for me are usually compassion and morality, which to some degree religious people have a position spelt out to them for me I have to work it out.

Sometimes I feel it would be good on these complex issues if someone said here is what you should believe, then I also recoil at that because as I know from my political life that has several very sharp drawbacks as well ;-)


Edited by Orac (10/31/11 05:04 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

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#41246 - 10/31/11 06:40 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
Rev--- 3,000,000 posts later and I still do not understand how being religious could possibly mean not acknowledging godishness (!) with worship.

All the other things you mention community, compassion, art, love etc are open to us all, even godless atheists like me.

I think you are trying to have your cake and eat it too!

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#41248 - 10/31/11 06:10 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
Bill S. Offline
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Registered: 08/20/10
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Loc: Essex, UK
Originally Posted By: O
Hmm I think you judge me a very bad person then :-)


I would be surprised if Rev is into passing judgement on anyone.
IMO, if compassion is high on your list of important things you are on the right track.
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#41249 - 10/31/11 06:24 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
Bill S. Offline
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Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 3570
Loc: Essex, UK
Originally Posted By: Ellis
I think you are trying to have your cake and eat it too!


My mother always insisted that was something you couldn't do. I thought she was right until I met with Rev. laugh
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