The Concept of the Whole and Threadism

Posted by: Kyra M

The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 06/25/09 04:51 AM

The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Kyra K 2009
Andrea is discussing this with me.

I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.
Probably not. So, when do you want to start?[Remember, you did ask me to help you.)
Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.
Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.
Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.
Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?
Well, what do you think?
It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?
I wish it was.
Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.
Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.
Which is which?
Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.
You say seemingly?
Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy.
We are not aware that we are aware?
Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.
Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?
Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.
Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.
Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.
I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.
I’m listening.
A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.
Death?
After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock.
Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.
That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?
Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.
Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?
I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’
Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.
So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.
And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness.
The awareness of the Universe.
The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.
Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?
Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.
Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?
Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion.
Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.
Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol.
What are the advantages of believing in this?
Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.
And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.
Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.
How so?
Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.
Is all suffering karma then?
No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.
Now, how can I get this straight?
I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.
1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.
2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.
Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole.
But they still would be?
Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.
But you said..?
The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.
We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.
I see, make it/them aware.
Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away.

Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.
Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.

4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.
Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust.

5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.
We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.

6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism.

7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.

8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.
Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?
Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.
And the Light Energy has always known.
Precisely.

NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 06/27/09 03:13 AM

"I used to say I am me, now it's us now it's we."
Posted by: samwik

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 06/27/09 05:30 AM

By way of AWT...
or...
Through the Breath (pneuma)....
oh, sorry....
===

I'm surprised those posts haven't started yet; maybe they're on vacation now.
They will and should be honored to be reflected so well by your vision.

Threadism... I'm ready to sign up--send me an application.
===

I'm just so amazed to see your words that express what I knew I knew--but I also was so sure was so unexpressible.
Good job! This also successfully overthrows the impulse to antropomorphize the connectedness.

No pun intended, but it was through the study of "string theories" that I came to intuit this view of the illusion that we call reality. Threadism is a most appropriate name, eh?

...and through that study (string theories) that we can see how the fundamental dimensions [from which ours are derived] lend that synchronicity, meaning, purpose, and creativity to this reality--across time--revealing omniscience, omnipotence... omnipresence.

You must read Stuart Kauffman's "Reinventing the Sacred" mentioned here:
http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=26073#Post26073

p.s. ...and welcome to the forum here.
Happy Solstice
~ wink
Posted by: Ellis

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 06/27/09 06:32 AM

There is something very appealing about 'Threadism", (though I am uncomfortable praising an 'ism'). I think the idea of connectiveness approximates something that I have always felt and have tried to think through too-- that is that by being 'here' we are all part of the whole existence that makes life possible through mutual need and support. However I query the semi-spiritual tone of some of your conclusions, especially the WE as god. We need no god figure in this picture of existence-- the fact we are here is enough verification. We also need no cozy Afterlife Cafe where we will meet up with all our old friends for a bit of a chat. This is it, our death is the end. Any of our atoms left over will go to build the planet further and we will live in the memories of those who knew of us. That is enough-- our separate experience of the thread of each life is the reason for our existence.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 06/27/09 07:12 AM

Thanks, samwik, for your kind words. I'm really thrilled you got something from my theory - anything you could add would be greatly appreciated.

Re: string theories I have read about them being likened to a chord strummed on a guitar, two or more strings vibrating to produce a separate sound, or if you like another dimension - I thought that was a good analogy.

Ellis, thank you too for your comments. I see what you mean about the use of the word, god. Perhaps universe would have been a better choice - a little less biblical?

I don't believe, and my theory supports this, that there is an afterlife. In death/shedding of the 5% 'shell' we are awakened from this bodily experience to the far more awareness of the Whole(which has always been 'Us') or the 95% of what makes up the universe.

Yes, I think Threadism sounds good, and I was pleasantly surprised to see the word did not exist on Google before this post.
I love the way you expressed it as "our separate experience of the thread of each life".
Posted by: samwik

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 06/27/09 08:26 AM

It's too late to add more now--maybe tomorrow. smile
But one small thought I had was the enjoyment I get from interpreting "normal" religious dogma, phrases, or wisdom in terms of this threadlike, "wholistic," and non-anthropomorphic view of reality (all 100%).

Phrases like "The Lord is always with you" take on a different meaning--not anthropomorphizing a "Lord," but becoming just an obvious statement of the nature of reality--we are always with the threads that create us.

I don't know if religions would appreciate my liberal and abstract interpretation or translation of their words, but as I say--it does bring me a certain joy and satisfaction. It helps me form a more integrative world view; seeing similarities where too often we can easily see differences.
Posted by: Zephir

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 06/27/09 09:37 AM

Concept of threadism follows from Aether Wave Theory, by which reality is composed of fractal density fluctuations of hypothetical particle environment of infinite mass/energy density, i.e. the Aether.



These fluctuations would appear like structureless blobs of Perlin noise similar to clouds from general perspective - but from larger distance the details of structure are washed, so that only threads and points remain. It's a space-time distance perspective, what makes vacuum foamy and stringy for us both at macroscopic scale (the past) or the microscopic scale (i.e. the future with respect to omnidirectional Universe expansion).
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 06/28/09 03:59 AM

Hi Zephir. That's amazing! When I coined the word, Threadism, I never thought it could be explained in such clear scientific terms. Of course seeing that it is both Dark Energy and Dark Matter combined, it makes sense that it has to do with the gravitational expansion of the universe. The unexplained speeding up of which is how we know of these phenomena.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 06/28/09 04:53 AM

Hi Ellis re: my use of the word, God, just a quick quote from Jaron Lanier : God is the most powerful symbol we have created. The Spaniards in the New World built their churches on the holy sites of those they vanquished. Notre Dame sits on a Druid holy site. Shall we use the God word? It is our choice. Mine is a tentative "yes". I want God to mean the vast ceaseless creativity of the only universe we know of, ours. What do we gain by using the God word? I suspect a great deal, for the word carries with it awe and reverence. If we can transfer that awe and reverence, not to the transcendental Abrahamic God of my Israelite tribe long ago, but to the stunning reality that confronts us, we will grant permission for a renewed spirituality, and awe, reverence and responsibility for all that lives, for the planet.
Posted by: Ellis

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 06/28/09 05:09 AM

Kyra- listen to the Tim Minchin tape on U-tube posted by david mabus. It is a brilliant discussion of belief and the need for it, ( That being said I've no idea why DM posted it!!!) Tim has been around in Oz for a while and is now expanding to the UK. A warning though. His language is foul! But typical!
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 06/28/09 07:32 AM

Okay, will do, Thanks.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 06/28/09 08:27 AM

Ellis, I couldn't find the tape you mentioned but I did watch a few hundred virgins etc.. and, If you open your mind too much. That guy is amazing! Brilliant songs. I've always said a good comedian is a very intelligent person and Tim Minchin proves that premise!
Posted by: Zephir

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 06/28/09 03:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Kyra M
Shall we use the God word?
Nothing like God word exists: what exists are just only words of some people, which may interpret God correctly - but they may not.
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 06/28/09 04:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Zephir
Originally Posted By: Kyra M
Shall we use the God word?
Nothing like God word exists: what exists are just only words of some people, which may interpret God correctly - but they may not.
Some people spend more time living in their personal interpretations of what it (the word and all of its history) means to others and how to box it in a definition, rather than look into the history of the word and what it represents aside all personal belief.
It is more important for the ego to make a comparison and to help settle ones self in personal belief and idealism, in and amongst the varying idealistic theories and passed down beliefs of generations past. Otherwise the ego has nothing without its personal belief and the self validation that is freedom to generate an opinion regardless of whether it is based on reality.

The word itself refers to that which underlies all personal beliefs, and it threatens the foundation of isolated personality. To experience God one has to let go of personality, and that is death to the ego of personal belief and idealism.

For the personal ego which stands on principles of past impressions to let go of isolationism and to become part of a bigger whole is difficult. It can make a determination that there may be a bigger picture and a whole that is inclusive but only in terms that are insistent that the whole credit and acknowledge the personal as a key piece to the puzzle. It (ego) must insist the whole does not exist without that piece, and that the whole is secondary to the personal, making the whole an option for the personal if the personal has what it needs to find consideration for the whole, even if the personal feels there is finality in death, in which the whole becomes a non sequitur.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 06/29/09 09:26 AM

Hi Tutor,
Good point. Words are just man-made anyway. Or in the case of swear words, mad-made!
There certainly is a bigger picture and all we have is the capacity of humans to visualize it.
Some of the most powerful things cannot be actually seen (electricity, magnetism etc) The Concept of The Whole explains that 95% of what makes up the Universe is only determined by its effect on the expansion of itself. Speeding up not slowing down as the scientists expected. And what Threadism looks like is immaterial, pardon the pun!)We see its effects in our connectedness through synchronicity etc. Let's get back to my original post!
Posted by: gregarach

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 06/30/09 03:54 AM

A very neat and, may I say, captivating theory.

I like your change of dark energy/matter to 'light', as the former term carries too many negative connotations.

I'm dubious though of how much awareness 'we' will have when our bodily shell wears out. Will we know what form we took before, will we remember people, events etc or will none of that matter?
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 06/30/09 04:29 AM

Hi Gregarach,

Thanks for that. I don't know. I wish I did. But an awareness which encompasses something as great as the 'Whole' would be a different one to this human awareness. Just as an ant's awareness is different to say, that of a dolphin. That doesn't answer your question: would we remember? But perhaps those things will not be so important to 'Us' then.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/01/09 05:41 AM

A belief which leaves no place for doubt is not a belief; it is a superstition. -Jose Bergamin, author (1895-1983)
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/01/09 05:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Kyra M
Hi Gregarach,
Thanks for that. I don't know. I wish I did. But an awareness which encompasses something as great as the 'Whole' would be a different one to this human awareness. Just as an ant's awareness is different to say, that of a dolphin. That doesn't answer your question: would we remember? But perhaps those things will not be so important to 'Us' then.
When you say this human awareness, I'm assuming you are referring to your personal state of human awareness or that which is categorized as normal.
Do you understand the concept of Human enlightenment and do you see that as abnormal or myth? Are you aware of the concept of Full Human Consciousness, or being fully conscious or aware of the whole while being in a body such as is described of certain saints, sages or mahatmas of past and present. Are you also aware of the fact that reincarnation was a part of Christianity until it was banned from the church in the 4th century, and that it is also taught in Eastern philosophy and spiritual sciences. It is said in terms of full human consciousness that there are no boundaries or limits to knowledge, and that everything is cognized or remembered. The thing is, the mind in such a state does not dwell on the physical experience as much as it is present in greater universal principals than that of physical laws. Such a mind unbounded is released from physical constraints and the belief that it (the physical reality) is primary.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/01/09 10:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Kyra M
The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Kyra K 2009
Andrea is discussing this with me.

I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.
Probably not. So, when do you want to start?

RevLGKing here: Kyra M, How are you and Kyra K related to one another? Are you dialoguing as one?


[Remember, you did ask me to help you.]

Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.
Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.

Okay, here goes: Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.

Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?

Well, what do you think?

It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?
I wish it was.

Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.

M&K, are you familiar with the term 'panENtheism'? If not, I suggest you do a search. You write as a panentheist would. RevLGK

Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.

Which is which?

Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.
You say seemingly?

Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works.

When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy.
We are not aware that we are aware?
M&K, I, RevLGK, apologize if it offends you that I have edited your thread so as to make it more readable at least for me

Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark.

Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.

Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?

Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.

Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.

Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.
I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.
I’m listening.

A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others).

And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.
Death?

After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock.

Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.

That is some concept. What about the nitty-gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?

Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.

Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?

I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’

Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.

So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.

And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness.
The awareness of the Universe.

The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.
Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?

Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.
Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?

Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad.

From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion.

Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.

Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol.

What are the advantages of believing in this?
Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well.

No selfishness.

No fear of the future.

We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.
And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.

Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.

How so?

Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.

Is all suffering karma then?

No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives).

And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.
Now, how can I get this straight?

I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.

1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.

2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.

Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole.
But they still would be?

Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.
But you said..?

The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.

We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.

I see, make it/them aware.

Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away.

Okay,
3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.

Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.

4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.
Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust.

5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.
We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.

6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism.

7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.

8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.
Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?

Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.
And the Light Energy has always known.
Precisely.

NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves.
M&K, if you object to what I have done to your interesting essay, please let me, RevLGK (panentheist/unitheist), know. We can always ask the moderators to change things. I'm easy! smile
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/02/09 03:48 AM

Thanks Tutor and Rev,for taking an interest.(You've (Rev) only changed a couple of words and,if it makes it easier for you to read, well, that's great!)
Good questions, Tutor. Am I aware of enlightenment? Yes of course. I have never attained that state myself, but I have read that the EEG of people meditating is altered, so something is happening. And yes,I am referring to normal awareness.(BTW Kyra M and Kyra K are one and the same - so is Andrea) And Tutor, I did not know that reincarnation was a part of christianity until it was banned. Very interesting.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/03/09 04:45 PM

KM, thanks for your recent message in which you made the clarification that your question was for me, not DAM.

About Christianity: A growing number of Bible scholars are of the opinion that what we call "Christianity" is really the result of the teachings of Paul. In my opinion--no value judgment intended--it should be call Paulianity. Some scholars call it Paulinity.

See the book by Professor Barrie Wilson: How Jesus Became a Christian
http://www.barriewilson.com/hjbc.html
========================================

About meditation:
Have you ever tried meditating using deep breathing while focusing on the primary colours?

I use red to symbolize the physical body (the soma factor); yellow to symbolize the mental processes (the psyche factor), and blue to symbolize our oneness with all that IS (the pneuma factor)--body, mind and spirit. I do this every day, or anytime I feel the need. I also combine it with yoga.

Of course what we call white light is colour less to the naked eye. It contains all the possible colours of the full spectrum.

Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/04/09 07:47 AM

Hi Rev, I looked up unitheism without using the link you gave me, and chose a site which turned out to be yours(a bit of synchronicity) You look amazing for your age and you certainly have done a lot of work re your theories. Some of our beliefs are similar I think.
I will try the meditation as you suggested, focusing on primary colours. Thanks for that.
(BTW you spell colour with a 'u' like we do here in Australia)
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/06/09 02:56 AM

Originally Posted By: Kyra M
... You look amazing for your age ...
It amazes even me that for the just over forty years--1953 to 1994--I served as a minister, I did not have take a sick day.

Quote:
and you certainly have done a lot of work re your theories. Some of our beliefs are similar, I think.
Our beliefs are very similar, I agree and love that this is so.

You mentioned that, like me, you are interested in meditating on the primary colours--Yes, I like both (British or American) versions.

By the way, I have numerous British and American cousins. Also, I like to think that I have many cousins elsewhere, including Australia and New Zealand. I am also proud to say that, on their mother's side, my only three grand children have a Persian and Muslim ancestry.

I find true unity in the love of variety.
=========================================
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/06/09 03:46 AM

Last night on Sixty Minutes (current affair programme) there was a story about how dogs, dolphins and horses seemed to be helping children with autism. One child began speaking and interacting normally when riding with his father on a horse. Twin boys with autism behaved normally when accompanied by their specially trained dog. No one can explain/prove why this is happening. I think that through Threadism (remember I said animals may be joined more strongly by species - these, like us, are mammals) the centeredness and the living in the now of these animals somehow transfers to the children.
Wow, Rev, all those years without a sick day! Well done.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/06/09 02:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Kyra M
through Threadism (remember I said animals may be joined more strongly by species - these, like us, are mammals) the centeredness and the living in the now of these animals somehow transfers to the children.
Have you ever looked at the work of the great psychiatrist and hypnotist, Milton H. Erickson?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_H._Erickson

HYPNOSIS WITHOUT THE HOCUS POCUS
================================
I have studied ME's work and I use what I call pneumatherapy--a spiritually-based form of hypnosis. IMO, in the trance state, we, like animals, can consciously choose to link in harmony and compassion with one another. Then we can help one another--physically, mentally and spiritually.

All Great doctors--for example, Sir William Osler, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Osler
--have this special gift of healing. He called it: Having good bed-side manners. He helped people have faith in their innate self-healing powers. The great news is: All who choose the way of love (agape--the principle of the Golden Rule) can have this gift. smile
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/07/09 03:03 AM

Sounds interesting. I will look up the link (thanks)
It is well known that patting an animal/pet actually lowers your blood pressure. And having a dog to take for a walk helps keep you on track regarding exercise.

A doctor with an understanding approach certainly gives one confidence in his ability (mind healing matter and believing in what he has prescribed - and that's how the placebos can be so effective)
Also giving the body time to heal itself often works.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/07/09 08:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Kyra M
Sounds interesting. I will look up the link (thanks) ...
A doctor with an understanding approach certainly gives one confidence in his ability (mind healing matter and believing in what he has prescribed - and that's how the placebos can be so effective)...
IMO, the use of placebos--meditating on that which is beautiful, good, true and loving--is a very effective kind of medicine.

BTW, there is an approach to using the placebo-effect, which shows people how to turn on the effect, themselves, without having to wait to be fooled by experts, doctors. and the like.

Meanwhile, have you heard about 'nocebos'? Can you guess what they are?

Here is help:
http://www.skepdic.com/nocebo.html
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/08/09 03:45 AM

I looked up Milton and what I read I agreed with. He was truly a man ahead of his time. His ideas of metaphors for life, his belief that we all often experience a trance like state, his way of helping those with problems - borne out by his affecting their cure on many occasions.

I like analogies, too, as it makes one's point more clearly understood. To paraphrase what I said in my Concept of the Whole and Threadism, "Can it be explained how a colour television works to a horse? That is what we are up against when trying to discover the understanding of the Universe." Like the horse, we do not have the language or concept of such things outside our own limited dimensions of reality. But still we learn much.
Thanks for the link.
Posted by: gregarach

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/09/09 02:55 AM

Originally Posted By: Kyra M
Hi Gregarach,

Thanks for that. I don't know. I wish I did. But an awareness which encompasses something as great as the 'Whole' would be a different one to this human awareness. Just as an ant's awareness is different to say, that of a dolphin. That doesn't answer your question: would we remember? But perhaps those things will not be so important to 'Us' then.


Thanks for your reply, Kyra.

Maybe you're right and the facts of our brief human lives will not be important when we return to the whole.

I guess each one of us will find out though. Or perhaps not?
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/09/09 03:59 AM

Kyra, I posted the following on: 06/22/2009 20:51. It is a practical example of how, recently, I used pneumatherapy--the term I use to describe what I feel is similar to Ericksonian hypnotherapy.
===========================================================
AN ENLIGHTENING TWO HOURS AT A PAIN CLINIC--Experiencing and dealing with Physical, Mental and Spiritual pain
================================================
June 20, 2009--as our earth approached the summer solstice north of the equator--was, for me, a memorable one.

It began as a night filled with a deep, dark water-filled-overcast sky, which was punctuated with heavy showers--the result of a wide-spread thunder and lightening storm in the Toronto area. In the afternoon, I was expected to officiate at an open-air marriage ceremony at a golf club. Jean and I were invited to the reception following.

A PAINFUL EXPERIENCE

The night before, my wife and I went to bed with the hope that things would clear up by noon the next day. In addition, we both hoped that the niggling pain in her foot, for which she was being treated with electronic stimulation, would subside enough so that she could enjoy the ceremony and the dinner following, especially the dancing. Jean loves to dance.

Morning came. More rain, accompanied by more pain. To add to the pain my wife had, it seemed that even the elements were conspiring to create problems. In addition to this, Jean told me that she was in terrible physical pain, which was now located, not in her foot, but in her lower back and left leg. She told me that it was so excruciating she could hardly move her leg.

What to do!

I asked myself: WOULD I BE FORCED TO HAVE SOMEONE ELSE DO THE WEDDING?
========================================================
At that point it looked to me like I was destined to officiate at the rained-on-and-late-afternoon wedding all by myself. Yes, I was free from physical pain, but I began to feel lots of mental and spiritual pain--pain originating in the psyche and pneuma. We argued with one another as to the best way to handle the situation.

I told her that what really bothered me was what I felt was her passive-dependent attitude towards authority figures--doctors and the like. In my opinion, we give too much deference to so-called experts--for example, doctors, lawyers, preachers, bankers and the like--can get us into all kinds of problems, especially if we are afraid to ask questions.

Me?

Not having met or spoken to her doctor, I said: I want to speak, personally, to Dr. Cheng, who operates a pain clinic, and find out what he and his clinic has to offer.

POSITIVE ACTION WAS REWARDED
==============================
After much personal wrangling, back and forth, we decided to make an appointment, as soon as possible, with Dr. Cheng. We phoned and, to my surprise with Jean on the line, I got through to his nurse right away. It was agreed that we could see him at 10:30.

At the consultation again I was pleasantly surprised. He told us that, while his approach to pain is based on the medical model--a somatic approach--he was not adverse to involving the mind (psyche) and the spirit (pneuma).

"Now and then" he said, "for interested patients, I give classes in tai chi--a kind of physical meditation which involves the mind and the spirit."

Then I told him about the classes in pneumatology (study of the spirit), which I gave all the years of my ministry. I said, "I did not just speak about the spirit; I included the mind and the body and I worked openly with doctors and other members of the healing arts." This conversation with Dr. Cheng was most positive one.

At this point, he greed to do acupuncture, plus using an electronic machine, on my wife. He also agreed to have me present and he allowed me chat with him and my wife as he did so. Touching the area of the spine and getting feedback from my wife he found the points where he chose to place the needles. A very efficient nurse assisted with the equipment. I explained to the doctor what I was going to do and got his permission as he went on to tend to other patients.

I BEGAN TO APPLY PNEUMATHERAPY
================================
To Jean I said: "you are already familiar with my use of the colours RED, YELLOW & BLUE.

"Now, do some deep breathing as you visualize RED ... (I gave her time to do so...)

"Now: Think of your heart and lungs, which are directly connected via the nervous system to the veins and arteries, and, in fact, to every cell of your body. They are working together, as you breathe, feeding and healing your whole circulatory system. This process is purifying the venous blood and creating lots of rich, red and warm arterial blood cells which are flowing to all the cells and nerves, calming them and healing them."

I then instructed Jean to do some deep breathing in her own time and let me know when she had finished...

USING THE COLOUR YELLOW, I followed the same process of having Jean do some deep breathing; but this time I said: "Think of your brain and nervous system, which extends to every cell--billions of them--in the whole body. Now do some deep breathing, focusing on the brain and the nervous systems--the central and voluntary system, by which we can consciously control all our voluntary movements. The autonomic or involuntary system--reacts to the way we feel or imagine things to be. You cannot directly control the beat of your heart, but it will beat faster if you see something frightening. The fear can be real, or imagined. You can control your breathing, but it too can be influenced by how you feel, emotionally.

"USING THE COLOUR BLUE, once again using the same process, as above, I told Jean:

"Pay attention to your breathing, but this time think of the spirit-like aura which extends beyond the body. It mediates who you are and how you relate to your family, your friends and community, including strangers.

"Now do some deep breathing focusing on the aura, which vibrates with colour-like vibrations not visible to the naked eye... Let me know when you are finished..."

The overall process, involving periods of silence, took about 25 minutes. When she finished her breathing, I called the nurse. Gently, she removed the needles and turned off the electronic device and told my wife to dress herself.

For the first time that day, Jean moved with relative ease. She was even able to stand, for some time, in line in another building where an X-ray was done. I wanted to know if there was much degeneration in her spine. Dr. Cheng agreed that it would help to check the structure of her lower spine where she had felt the worse pain.

We then went back to the house and she took the time to have lunch and rest. By four o'clock when we went to the wedding, all the pain had gone. This, thank G0D, held true for the rest of the evening.

About the weather: By the time the wedding was over--during which there was a heavy shower--things had calmed down. Because of this, people were able to have a drink and stroll the beautiful area next to the Club House while the couple had their photos taken.

Then the bride and groom, and well over 120 guests, sat down to an excellent dinner, followed by dancing.

It was a very pleasant evening. And the time since has been pain free.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/09/09 04:26 AM

Hi Rev, thanks for sharing that with me. Fascinating, and I am so glad it worked.

Gregarach, In my theory of The Concept of the Whole and Threadism, I did not say this life would not matter when we fully became the Whole again. I think it matters greatly to the evolution and the experience of the Whole.
And death should not be viewed as a punishment. However, it should be avoided as long as possible!
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/09/09 06:48 AM

INTEGRATION OF THE WHOLE PERSON
===============================
Kyra, since the 1930's even medical science has been willing to accept that much of our physical (somatic) pain and suffering is connected with what goes on in the mind (psyche). Thus they invented the term 'psychosomatic'--to describe the interaction of the mind/body.

However, IMO, there is another important factor, the pneuma (the spirit) factor. I know from experience that a sick spirit can invariably make for a very sick mind and body. A broken heart can be as deadly as a broken mind and body. Thus I like to use the descriptive term 'pneuma-psychosomatic', and to advocate the integration of pneuma, psyche and soma for the creation of WHOLEness.

In my humble opinion, many premature and tragic deaths--like that of the late Michael Jackson (and I can think of members of my own family, including my parents)--could be prevented if this were kept in mind, and in the spirit (the heart). There are no physical cures--like, for example, drugs, for a broken heart (spirit); it must be spiritual-based one.
Posted by: gregarach

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/10/09 04:03 AM

Originally Posted By: Kyra M
Hi Rev, thanks for sharing that with me. Fascinating, and I am so glad it worked.

Gregarach, In my theory of The Concept of the Whole and Threadism, I did not say this life would not matter when we fully became the Whole again. I think it matters greatly to the evolution and the experience of the Whole.
And death should not be viewed as a punishment. However, it should be avoided as long as possible!


Hi Kyra,

I should have said that the facts of our lives might not be important to 'us' when we leave our earthly shells, if indeed we would be aware of them. I did not mean that they did not matter to the Whole.

And Rev, your comments are interesting but imo have strayed some distance from a discussion of Kyra's theory and properly belong in a thread of their own.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/10/09 04:40 AM

Hi Gregarach and Rev,
Re my theory: (esp Threadism) I've just read about the Blue Tits of England. Before the second world war a small group of Blue Tits were discovered to have learned to peck through the foil lids of milk bottles, to get to the milk. It had never occured before. Within days people all over England were reporting the same behaviour from other Blue Tits(these did not have physical access to the first group) This is amazing enough in itself but then, during the war, all metal was needed so the foil lids were discontinued and, of course, the behaviour ceased. Incredibly though, after the war ended and the lids were reinstated, a whole new generation of Blue Tits began pecking into the milk bottle lids once again! It has scientists baffled but they do admit to some sort of energy force being involved (I call this connectedness Threadism - see original post)
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/10/09 01:55 PM

Originally Posted By: gregarach
And Rev, your comments are interesting but imo have strayed some distance from a discussion of Kyra's theory and properly belong in a thread of their own.
Greg, I certainly like to stay on topic. Let's ask Kyra what she thinks and what she has in mind. As I understand it, her concept of "Threadism" is about the wholeness of life and how all the is, is interconnected--physically, mentally and spiritually. The question is: If this is so, what is the best and practical way to make use this phenomenon?

For example, do the billions of cells of our body communicate with one another? If so, when cells become unhealthy, lose their way and become cancerous, can we use our self-consciousness--the power to have faith, hope and love--to direct them to become healthy cells rather than deadly ones?
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/11/09 12:06 AM

Okay, here is what I wrote in my original post.
(Please note that I was using an analogy when I said: "LIKE" tissue in the human body)

"Andrea asks: What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?
I answer: Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.
Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?
I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’
Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.
So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.
And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness.
The awareness of the Universe.
The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not 'The' Universe but 'We' Universe."
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/11/09 04:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Kyra M
... Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.
So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.... ... Not 'The' Universe but 'We' Universe."
Threadism, the Golden Rule and the Now.

THE UNIVERSE AS US
==================
I love living in the Now.
But let me make myself clear:
This doesn't mean that I find the Now
Always sensually attractive,
Or even likable.
There are times when I find
That the Now is miserable and filled with pain,
Including pain-filled people.
However, when I give the Now,
And all I find in it, Love,
I discover that Love, by the power of
Good will, respect and Compassion,
Changes all things, especially the self.
It is about living in the thread of Now.
Love works for the good in any Now.
We can all be at one with the Universe,
And live as agents of change, in the Now.
===========
BTW, feel free to join me at:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=-3&i...73&l=ebcae3bf23

Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/12/09 02:48 AM

Inspiring words, Rev. Thank you for that!

Another extract from my theory.
Andrea says: And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.
I say: Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.
How so?
Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.
Is all suffering Karma then?
No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.
Posted by: Andist

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/17/09 07:00 PM

I don't honestly see why we need strings. Isn't gravity enough?
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/18/09 12:45 AM

Hi Andist,
Thanks for your observation! I'm off to read your other posting,
Cheers,Kyra.
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/18/09 01:18 AM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking


THE UNIVERSE AS US
==================
I love living in the Now.
But let me make myself clear:
This doesn't mean that I find the Now
Always sensually attractive,
Or even likable.
There are times when I find
That the Now is miserable and filled with pain,
Including pain-filled people.


This is not a description of living in the now but an idea or belief of being in the now. Kinda like a preacher speaking all about God when he doesn't have the actual experience of God in a church filled with people who believe in God as a man living in the sky.....
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/18/09 09:14 AM

I think with the Whole(as described in my theory)it only 'is'. This is not the same as 'now' as 'now' implies a past and a future whereas in the Whole, time is non-existent.
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/18/09 06:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Kyra M
I think with the Whole(as described in my theory)it only 'is'. This is not the same as 'now' as 'now' implies a past and a future whereas in the Whole, time is non-existent.
The "NOW" the Reverend refers to is from his readings and misinterpretations of Eckhart Tolle. That "NOW" is the still presence of the absolute within all experience. The isness of being that is EVERYTHING, connected and whole. IT has direction, when given impulse that is initiated as thought or desire.
It, is PAST/PRESENT/FUTURE, and it is not linear but NOW/TRUTH/ABSOLUTE.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/19/09 08:19 AM

Time is a man made concept.
Posted by: Andist

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/19/09 08:48 AM

"Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for
an hour, and it seems like a minute. THAT'S relativity."

Einstein
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/19/09 04:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Kyra M
Time is a man made concept.

It came with the concepts of identification in being a man or human.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/22/09 02:25 AM

Some people may be having trouble reading my first post so here it is again!
Kyra M
Member

Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 32 The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Kyra K 2009
Andrea is discussing this with me.

I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.
Probably not. So, when do you want to start?[Remember, you did ask me to help you.)
Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.
Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.
Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.
Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?
Well, what do you think?
It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?
I wish it was.
Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.
Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.
Which is which?
Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.
You say seemingly?
Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy.
We are not aware that we are aware?
Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.
Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?
Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.
Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.
Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.
I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.
I’m listening.
A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.
Death?
After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock.
Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.
That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?
Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.
Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?
I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’
Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.
So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.
And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness.
The awareness of the Universe.
The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.
Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?
Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.
Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?
Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion.
Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.
Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol.
What are the advantages of believing in this?
Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.
And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.
Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.
How so?
Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.
Is all suffering karma then?
No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.
Now, how can I get this straight?
I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.
1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.
2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.
Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole.
But they still would be?
Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.
But you said..?
The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.
We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.
I see, make it/them aware.
Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away.

Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.
Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.

4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.
Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust.

5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.
We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.

6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism.

7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.

8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.
Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?
Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.
And the Light Energy has always known.
Precisely.

NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/25/09 06:39 AM

Kyra M, as you said:
"I think with the Whole (as described in my theory) it only 'is'. This is not the same as 'now' as 'now' implies a past and a future whereas in the Whole, time is non-existent."

I agree that the Now, in the absolute sense, is an eternal Whole., But surely it is a dynamic and flowing kind of eternal Whole, not like some snapshot frozen in time and space without the power to change for the better.

As human and imaginative beings, it seems to me, we have the power, from the point of view of Now, to stand back and look at what is and what can be.

We have the god-given power to remember the past "nows" without being trapped by them. We are not just puppets on the strings of heredity and environment. We need not allow ourselves to be condemned to be victims of painful memories and base instincts--the kind that lead to blood feuds and wars; the kind that force us to evolve, without any choice in the matter, with one unconscious goal in mind--that of survival.

I like to think that using the god-like and creative powers of faith, hope and love we can consciously create in the Now--moment by moment--the kind of future Nows in which all good is possible, ad infinitum.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/25/09 07:00 AM

BTW, Jean and I just got back from a visit to Tofino, BC, on the west coast of Vancouver Island.

The King family, including our three grandchildren, went to celebrate Jean's 80th. birthday--there were over 100 guests at the all-day party. Catherine was the one who introduced me to the writings of Eckhart Tolle.

She and her husband, Wayne Adams, are both artists who know how to live and create in the NOW. They grow most of their food on a floating garden. There is also lots of fish. Every time we see this work of art (started in 1993)-in-process, we are reminded of what it is to be in the Now.

We spent 12 days with them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDqbfiejLdM
Posted by: Andist

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/25/09 09:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Kyra M
Time is a man made concept.


Time is no more a man made concept than force and kinetic energy:

Force X time = Energy
Posted by: Ellis

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/26/09 12:04 AM

I would have thought that time was not a human concept too--- we can devise ways that we find efficient to measure time, but that does not mean that time will vanish if we do not exist to observe it. (At least that is what I think <rather nervously>-- no science there though, just opinion, that's why I post it in NQR!)
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/26/09 01:05 AM

Hi Ellis and Rev and Andist,

As you said time implies a quantitative state that must be measured. The 'tools' we use to measure time are man made eg clocks, calendars. With our limited 'time' as humans we have found a need to have this measurement. Does it exist beyond us?
Others with a limited life-span and the knowledge of this would probably have their own time concept, too. It would not be an exclusively human trait.

Have you noticed that all time measurements have a frame of beginnings and endings? Morning/night, AM PM, January beginning, December ending. Or as in Australia: June end of the financial year, July beginning of the financial year. But all from one point to another point, whether we call them beginnings or endings is immaterial.
I believe Time for the Whole/Universe does not exist as there is no 'point to point' basis or need for it. But it certainly exists for us.

Rev, (and I'm being a little pedantic here) living in the Now is impossible as the Now becomes the past as soon as we think of, or become aware of it. Perhaps living in the hour, or day or second may be more accurate.
Glad you had such a nice holiday!

Andist, by way of our humanity, anything we think up is a man made concept!
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/26/09 02:17 AM

Originally Posted By: Kyra M
Hi Ellis and Rev and Andist,
... Rev, (and I'm being a little pedantic here) living in the Now is impossible as the Now becomes the past as soon as we think of, or become aware of it. Perhaps living in the hour, or day or second may be more accurate. ...
I agree. Time like motion is simply an infinite series of stops (nows) on the way to forever, which is always tomorrow. smile
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/26/09 06:12 AM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Originally Posted By: Kyra M
Hi Ellis and Rev and Andist,
... Rev, (and I'm being a little pedantic here) living in the Now is impossible as the Now becomes the past as soon as we think of, or become aware of it. Perhaps living in the hour, or day or second may be more accurate. ...
I agree. Time like motion is simply an infinite series of stops (nows) on the way to forever, which is always tomorrow. smile
This is the kind of confusion that is generated from reading books such as Tolle when he references the Now. One who has no experience of the Now projects from their experience of the past, old ideas, trying to make them new and for the future. The present moment or the "Now" as referenced by Tolle is eternal. It is a state of innocence such as that of a child where there are no preconceptions of the moment burdened by a memory of the past and accordingly no projection of a future, only NOW. It is connecting with God and with no judgments or belief. Pure being and the experience unfettered. But then if you have no experience of God but rather a personal idea or opinion laden with beliefs and preconceived ideals prompted by subconscious programs, everyone's now is subject to conflict by the clashing of personal opinion and belief. No one really connecting in Unity with God because unity means to them, everyone thinks and acts alike. A union that is a democratically derived agreement in experience and belief. God clones.

Words such as God and the Now then become obscure and personality begins to create meanings and acronyms to isolate personal belief as the quintessential product of an imagined God.

This is also why the meaning of scripture has been lost to the individual and personal ideals of egoic idealism. With no Authority, and with the ego having a fear of being limited by an opposing thought, all Truth in Origin is lost to the democratic process so that everyone may have their own reality and their own definitions of universal principal.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/26/09 02:04 PM

KM, the following question came to me this morning:
How come this forum has relatively few paralogists, which World Book Dictionary defines as false reasoners?

BTW, all dictators--those claim all power and to have the truth are paralogists. A number of them destroyed the first forum in which I participated. Our host, a financial adviser at a national news paper, because he feared being called a censor, refused to discipline them, and there was no ignore button. He finally had to close down the forum.

Ironically, they also claimed of be experts in finances and economics--the same kind who helped bring about the current depression of the economy.


The good news is: We need paralogisms--bad examples of how to communicate. They at least serve to help us appreciate god-like, that is, good communication--dialogue that, without dogma, rant and negative rhetoric is good-will based and designed to create harmony and the spirit interested in community encouragement.

I wonder how our moderators feel about the damaging effect dictatorial paralogisms can have in this forum, especially one dedicated to the nature and function of science, including philosophy about it as in NQSF.
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/26/09 06:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking


I wonder how our moderators feel about the damaging effect dictatorial paralogisms can have in this forum, especially one dedicated to the nature and function of science, including philosophy about it as in NQSF.

It might be that each person has a mind and the ability to reason beyond superstition and projection.
Without feeling threatened by what another can express freely, moderation comes to be the guiding principal of wisdom rather than reactive and closed minded in making things personal. To perceive the information at the expanded level rather than one from personality, belief and the reaction to personal feelings, one has to relieve themselves of subjective idealism and see the possibility that there is always something greater than any personal opinion, otherwise one becomes complacent and protective of ones own beliefs and opinions and often easily feels threatened by anything that comes into conflict with the personality and those beliefs.

Such a moderator who is personally invested then becomes a Paralogist by dictating what freedom of expression is through the subjective attachment to their own beliefs and idealisms, rather than the objectivity of wisdom that is free from such egoic limitation.

I would suppose the moderator of a forum who was being objective might take someones opinion and set it aside, in and amongst all the other opinions so that something greater might arise from the diversity of belief, giving the option to those who had any stress about feeling left out or unloved to seek their own satisfaction by isolating themselves to something less exposed to the world and its varying degrees of social mores that are strictly intellectual understandings.

It's always a choice to see and project Good or evil, and those ideas are going to be relative to how much one is immersed in belief and opinion, or the objective awareness of the NOW.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/26/09 09:03 PM

KM, to improve communications let me expand on what I want to say about dictatorship, past and present, in any category of life. Here I include theocrats--including Pagan and Christian emperors, kings and certain modern Islamic rulers. All tyrants, including any who claim to have God and all truth on their side, are paralogists no matter how benevolent they claim, and appear, to be. Needless to say, dictators insist on having control of all media, including the WWW, the Internet.

Incidentally, I first went on line in 1997. I was invited by
a financial writer--a real gentleman--at a national news paper to participate in a forum, which he agreed to host. With the assumption that all participants would be like him, he set it up to discuss the creation of Wealth, Wisdom and Wellbeing (holistic health)--WWW. Although I wrote some things in the Wellbeing section, most of my participation was in the Wisdom, or philosophy of WWW. I was involved until it closed down in, 2004? Like here, I made no secret of the fact that I was, and still am, a minister.

No matter what I wrote, from the get-go, I and a few of us--ones who were interested in dialoguing about real and serious issues and ideas having to do with the integration of body, mind and spirit--attracted diatribe and vitriol from the flaming paralogists who hid behind their pseudonyms.

However because he feared being called a censor, our host neglected to discipline the flamers--and there was no ignore-button.

Eventually a group of serious financial writers broke away and formed a no-nonsense group of their own to strictly discuss finances, which banned flamers. The loss of this group led to our host closing down his forum. He now blogs for his paper.

Ironically, many writers claimed to be interested in finances and economics. And yet, as I recall, not one of the "experts" saw and wrote about the flaws in our current, debt-based fiat system, which we now know led to the current financial melt down.

THERE WAS A WARNING
===================
One writer, a friend of mine who I introduced to the forum, did issue a warning regarding the collapse of the American and Canadian dollar.

Based on common sense, we both called for reform of our debt-based fiat financial system--assets to banks, debts to borrowers. We both called for a financial system back by real and valuable assets. He was hot on the use of metals like gold, silver, and the like.

Because any economy must have workers--white and blue collars--I added: Let us not forget that workers, willing to do real work, are also assets as well as metals. Both of us were flamed for our opinions. We know now that what we wrote is a present and prophetic reality.
================
THE GOOD NEWS IS---as I said above.
================
Posted by: AnnaReiers

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/26/09 11:46 PM

Hi Kyra, and other participants on this forum, too...

I find your theory uplifting, Kyra, and personally I have always felt that we are all part of a Whole, of an energy that exists within and without, so to speak - and makes us part of that Whole.
In a way it comes down to common sense. We are all insignificant, yet significant, parts of the Whole Creation,and each part of the Whole, from a grain of sand to a drop of blood, a flower, mountain, sea - you name it - everything has energy within it, everything is linked. Whether that energy can be applied to the concept of time is another matter. Energy may have sparked the beginning of all that is, of Creation itself - as in The Big Bang (more likely a Bounce in my opinion)- but Time didn't exist until it was needed, till man needed it. This is why there is a Creation/Evolution Discrepancy*, why the Seven Days (okay, six) of Creation has been - in my humble opinion - misunderstood.

*I'm writing a manuscript at the moment, which covers some of this. Am I allowed to include a link? If not, I'll just include part of it when I return.

Yesterday today was tomorrow, and no sooner have I uttered the word 'now', before it has become 'then'. There is but now.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/27/09 02:18 AM

Hi AnnaReirs,
Welcome to the forum! Thanks for your kind comments on my theory and your insightful understanding.
I'm sure a link to your manuscript is allowed. The Big Bounce, wonderful!

Hi Rev and TT. And, Rev, if only people had listened to your writer friend...
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/27/09 05:05 AM

Originally Posted By: Kyra M


Hi Rev and TT. And, Rev, if only people had listened to your writer friend...


Obviously the would have, if they had wanted to.
Posted by: Andist

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/27/09 09:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Kyra M


Andist, by way of our humanity, anything we think up is a man made concept!


Very true Kyra.

Having to pay for fuel to power this computer is a man made concept that I could do without.
Posted by: AnnaReiers

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/27/09 10:53 PM

I'm back, Kyra, with the link and one chapter. It's a bit long, because of dialogue, but I hope it sets the tone for where I'm coming from - or my alter ego and the character, 'The Would-Be-Protagonist'.

http://www.authonomy.com/ViewBook.aspx?bookid=1857

The Evolution and Creation Discrepancy (ch 17):
Anna is chewing things over, going over old ground. I thought I was done with this lot when I extricated myself from the tangle of super-strings, but apparently not. Anna wants to know more…

‘So, you were there at the Beginning?’

‘Did I say that?’

‘Not in as many words, I suppose, but you did say that you were there before Time began. I figured that would mean the same as the Beginning.’

I think Anna is hung up on the Beginning, as she calls it. What if there wasn’t an actual beginning?

‘Don’t be silly. You know what I mean. Creation, if you like.’

‘What do you mean by that? The beginning of the physical world, or the beginning of everything that ever was, whatever it was?’

‘Let’s go for the physical, shall we? What we know…’

‘What we know? What we know is an infinitesimal fragment compared to what we could know - and in the future, will know.’

‘It doesn’t take Einstein to figure that out.’

‘Oh, okay, okay. But what exactly do you want to know?’ I suppose I knew what was coming, but that doesn’t mean to say that I was prepared for what she asked next.

‘Well, being as you were there, I wondered if you could throw any light on the discrepancies between the Evolution according to Science and the Biblical Creation?’

‘Discrepancy? What do you mean?’ I’ll have to put my thinking cap on, but don’t let on.

‘Well, according to Scriptures, the Creation took place less than six thousand years ago…’

‘Get away!’ (Sorry, I couldn’t help it - but sarcasm is lost on her anyway.)

…’Yet Science seems to have proven that this event - whatever label you assign it - happened almost sixteen billion years ago. A bit of a difference, don’t you think? And we know which one is correct, don’t we?’

She seems to have forgotten that I have been around a while. Or she’s trying to trick me again.

‘I’d say they both are.’

‘That’s not possible.’

‘Oh, yes it is. I’ll try to explain.’

‘I thought you didn’t like maths?’

‘So you realise that there has to be some calculations involved, then?’

‘Fairly obvious, I should have thought.’

‘They aren’t my sums, just so you know. These calculations were made some 3000 years ago.’

‘How do you know that?’

‘Just listen, will you?’ Does she have to know every little detail? We’ll never get off the spot at this rate. And now she’s shaking her head, making me feel uneasy.

‘I’m not sure that this will make sense to you or anyone else, but according to the Jewish faith - which preceded Christianity…’

‘Will you stop stating the obvious!’

I’ll ignore these outbursts and continue without rising to her bait. At least I’ll try!

’…according to the Jewish faith, as I said, Time was ‘set in motion’ when the first humans were imbued with the soul of human life.’

‘Wait a minute.’

Anna looks excited. I hope she’s not going to veer off at a tangent again.

‘No, you wait!’ Honestly, this is almost impossible. ‘Anyway, counting from that symbolic moment of Creation…’

‘You mean Adam and Eve?’

‘I mean the first true humans, symbolically known as Adam and Eve. Okay?’

‘Okay.’

‘Counting from that moment, about 5800 years have passed.’
‘That doesn’t make almost sixteen billion years, by any calculations.’

‘Now you’re being stupid.’

‘Hang on a minute…’

‘Have some patience, will you?’

‘Get on with it then.’

‘The six days of Creation in Genesis are described in just a few sentences - 31, I think (and no, I didn’t actually count them!). How can you describe Creation in not much more than a paragraph? Well, I’ll tell you. They didn’t seem to need all those details that we find so fascinating today. They couldn’t extract data or look backwards in time…’

‘Look backwards? You have already said that that’s an impossibility.’

‘I actually said that humans couldn’t travel backwards in time - as of yet anyway. But they can look backwards through time in the cosmos, through the Hubble telescope, for instance…’

‘Ah..’

‘Besides, what do you know of thermodynamics, palaeontology, light-energy physics, chemistry or cosmology?’

Anna looked downhearted. ‘Not a lot. Nothing, really.’

‘There you are then! But there are people today who do know. Lots of people. And there are hundreds of thousands of books (I think) dealing with the Universe and its development. And the Bible, or the Torah, gives us 31 sentences!

‘I think I see what you mean.’

‘Do you?’

‘No.’

‘Well, consider Time. The six days of Creation have been omitted from the count. Time didn’t exist until the ‘sixth day’. Not in the way that it was recorded from then on.’

‘Hm, I’m not sure…’

‘Seen from the Time-Space angle - that is the time in which you exist - those ‘six days’ can be estimated, time wise.’

I can see she is confused. I’ve confused myself for that matter. I’ll need to give myself a bit of time to work it out. ‘We’ll come back to Time in a while.’ Is that a look of relief in her eyes?

‘Have you considered that some of the misunderstandings of the text could be due to incorrect translation?’

‘Always a possibility, I suppose.’

Take the Hebrew word ‘mayim’. It’s usually translated to mean ‘water’ in the Bible, but in the earliest Hebrew texts about Creation, the word may also have meant ‘the building blocks of the Universe.’

‘Did they use those words then?’

‘Words to that effect, perhaps.’

‘Any other examples?’

‘Yes, did you know that what is usually translated as ‘there was evening’ in the creation story, actually means that there was disorder - or chaos - right up until the fourth day?’

Anna’s eyes are narrowing. ‘What? You said that there was no chaos when you became aware of your existence - when you spoke of the Great Expansion.’

‘But I didn’t say when in the chain of events that was. I don’t actually know. Anyway, from the point on the fourth day when the sun first rose, the world became ordered (’bikoret’). It flowed from disorder to order. Or if you like, chaos to cosmos.’

‘That sounds as though it happened by design.’

‘That’s an entirely different argument.’

‘You mean you have to think about it?’

‘I have to think about one thing at a time.’

‘Right.’

There’s that giggle again. I wish she’d let me finish.

‘You’re making me lose my thread. Anyway, as it’s Biblical, many people will pooh-pooh it. But it’s thermodynamics, too, you know. Well, I think it is. And it was all calculated 3000 years ago. Or so.’

‘And how would you know?’

I put my finger to my non-existent nose, tapping it. I understand that it means she should mind her own business. She doesn’t like it much.

‘I suppose you are going to give me some calculations now, to work out the Time thing?’

She doesn’t seem to remember, but she jotted down what I suppose to be the scientific calculations on a piece of paper, a while back. Don’t quite know why, but it's coming in handy. I’m glad I remembered!

‘Well. Let’s see (I’ll pretend to understand. I bet she doesn’t):
The exponential rate of expansion has a particular number - hm - averaged at 10 to the 12th Power…’

‘Eh?’

‘That’s the temperature of quark confinement, when matter freezes out of the energy…’

‘Stop!’

‘Why?’

‘I don’t understand any of it.’

‘But I haven’t finished. I’m trying to tell you about the initial ratio which changes exponentially as the Universe expands.’

‘Well, tell me so that I can understand. You’re blinding me with science.’

‘Resorting to clichés now?’

‘Will you get on with it?'

‘Okay, but I just want to mention Einstein.’

‘Again?’

‘Yes, you see, although these calculations were made by Jewish scholars of the Torah and the Talmud, thousands of years ago, they agree with Einstein’s space-time theory of calculating time when looking back towards what is perceived as the Beginning.’

‘The Theory of Relativity and all that?’

‘You could say that.’

‘Give me the simplified calculations then.’

‘Well, as I understand it, Day One - when looking back from today’s perspective, lasted 8 billion years.’

‘You’re joking.’

‘No, I’m not.’ Why would I be joking? ‘The second day (always looking back from today’s perspective, remember), was half of that - 4 billion years - and so on.’

‘Right, so each subsequent ‘day’ was half as long as the day before because of the manner and speed in which the Universe was expanding. Yes?’

‘Yes!’

‘So the third day lasted 2 billion years, the fourth day - 1 billion years, the fifth day, half a billion years and the sixth day, a quarter of a billion years. Wow! Adding that lot up, it makes 15 and ¾ billion years.’

‘Yup. The same as modern cosmology has it.’

Anna looked dumbfounded and excited at the same time.

‘So no discrepancy?’

‘None to speak of, as far as I can see. You can check the so-called six days of Creation, you know, against the scientific facts of Evolution. I’ll bet you’ll be surprised at how closely it all matches up.’

‘If you think I have time to delve into all that…’

Well, you have to laugh. She wants to know about everything, but doesn’t mind someone else doing the research.

‘But you already knew.’ Anna is looking at me accusingly. What is she accusing me of?

‘No, I didn’t. Who had heard of thermodynamics at the beginning of the first Millennium AD, when I was supposedly around? ‘

‘So what was all this?’

‘Well, I picked up a bit here, and a bit there. Listened, read over your shoulder - and you know…’

‘So you can’t prove any of this?’

‘Not personally, no, but it made you think, didn’t it?’ It made me think, too, for that matter.

*********

There you have it!
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/29/09 03:15 AM

Thanks, AnnaReiers,
Another insightful angle on the time issue. The Would Be Protagonist - great title!
And seeing your theory is loosley biblically based I wonder if Rev would like to give you his input on this?
Also thanks Andist and TT for your replies (you have a great sense of humour, Andist)
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/30/09 05:29 AM

KM, you mention AnnaReiers' comments, which you rightly describe as "loosely" based on the Bible story of Creation. Then you ask for my input.

In my opinion, the book of Genesis is no more about the modern way of looking at cosmology and astronomy than the book of Numbers is about mathematics.
============================
And speaking about the modern way, check out:
http://www.library.usyd.edu.au/libraries/rare/modernity/index.html

http://www.library.usyd.edu.au/libraries/rare/modernity/cosmo.html

FOR WHO LIKE TO TAKE THE BIBLE STORIES AS LITERAL TRUTH:
http://www.alltruebible.com/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ussher#Education
============================
Even as a youth I did not take all the stories of the Bible as being literally true and historical.
BTW, great scholar that he was, Bishop James Usher, a Protestant bishop Ireland, missed the point that there are two stories of creation in Genesis.

The first story,uses the Hebrew ELOHIM (gods) which we translate 'God'. This story probably originated in Babylonia (Persia) where there are two rivers. It talks poetically about the creation of things out of raging chaotic light-less waters. The power of the spirit of God brings light. This story ends at Chapter 2, verse 4a.

The second story--the Garden of Eden story--uses YAHWEH ADONAI, which we translate 'Lord God'. The story probably originated in Arabian dessert, south of modern Israel and Jordan. Note the reference to water coming up from beneath the surface of the ground. Sounds like a reference to an oasis in the dessert.

FOR A LIBERAL AND ANALYTICAL WAY OF READING THE BIBLE CHECK OUT
http://liberalevangelical.org/index
John S. Spong's book on Rescuing the Bible from ffundamentalism.
===================0000000==================
Posted by: Amaranth Rose II

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/31/09 03:50 AM

Uh, Rev, did you mean what you said here?

"...oasis in the dessert..."

or did you mean "Oasis in the desert"?

I can imagine a fountain arising from a dish of ice cream, or from a nicely presented flan, in the first instance. :-)
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/31/09 08:08 PM

Of course, a dessert has twice the amount of sugar as a desert. How sweeeeet of you to remind me.

Spell check, it is nice to know that you are not infallible. But you are useful, most of the thyme. Or is it time? Or are both correct?
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 08/01/09 06:37 AM

Hi Rev and Amaranth, Very interesting Rev, about that other version of creation. And Amaranth I had a little chuckle over your image of an Oasis Dessert(and another chuckle over Rev's reply) Yes, spell checks are good but not infallible!
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 08/13/09 04:33 AM

Synchronicity is a strange thing, one wonders if, even at its most extraordinary, there is any real reason/meaning behind it. Is it Threadism being revealed to us, just to prove it exists? Should we accept that weird, beyond coincidental, things just happen? Or should we delve into them further, tease out their meaning and perhaps risk creating one. Or should we make a diary of them and see if sometime in the future, something happens that will make us say ahh... now I know why that occurred!
Posted by: Ellis

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 08/13/09 05:03 AM

Don't over-analyse it Kyra Surely serendipity is the key to life's greatest pleasures!
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 08/16/09 01:07 AM

Thanks, Ellis. :- )
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 08/27/09 06:56 AM

I'm really pleased and surprised that my theory has had over 8,000 visits!
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 08/28/09 12:48 AM

KM, 8000 visits. I wonder how many individuals this represents. If it it represents 1000 do you suppose we could get them together so as to form a group? It would be interesting to do so, don't you think?

If we could bring them together with the goodly number who have viewed the other threads, on the same theme, perhaps we could form a political party. Then we could show those who have been making a mess of things--especially the financial "experts"--how it should be done, eh?. laugh.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 08/28/09 02:05 AM

Great idea, Rev! ;-)
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 08/28/09 09:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Kyra M
Great idea, Rev! ;-)
Kyra M, may I add to the idea by suggesting that perhaps we could dialogue about what is involved in forming a group as part of a movement.

In cyberspace there must be thousands of groups devoted to one cause, or another--good and evil.
Have you heard of the GOLDEN RULE RADICAL?
Apparently it is possible to belong to their forum and make comments as a guest, without have to become a member. Take a look at:

http://goldenruleradical.org/the-7-questions
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 09/02/09 01:55 AM

Thanks, Rev. I'll look it up!
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 09/21/09 03:32 AM

I believe nothing is by chance, it is by sequence, cause and effect - connectiveness exists because of this.
It rolls in on itself and then out again in a never ending, spherical many dimensional, ebb and flow of creation - up to 95% of which is non physical(as we know it).
Posted by: exnihilo

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 09/23/09 09:46 PM

Kyra, you are so close to the "reality" of things. I wish I could bridge the gap between the this and that for you. There is solace for you, however, and I hope it comes sooner rather than later. "Ha"! There is a highly esteemed scientist, David Joseph Bohm who dealt extensively about the concerns you have. He was working on something he called the "implicate and explicate" order. He discusses it liberally in the publication "A Conversation In Physics" by Routledge & Kegan Paul. You would identify with Bohm totally and I highly recommend you look up his work.

Good Luck!
Posted by: eccles

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 09/24/09 06:54 AM

Exnihilo is correct on the Bohm reference. However, one must also refer to the work of his "spiritual" associate J.Krishnamurti, in order to understand where Bohm was "coming from", other than Bohm's inheritance of Einstein's skepticism towards Quantum Theory.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 09/25/09 03:58 AM

Thanks, exnihilo, I'll look up his work.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 09/30/09 10:31 PM

Thu. Aug 27, 2009, I suggested starting a group made up of anyone interested in supporting Kyra M's idea of WHOLE-THREAD-ISM.

To all who would like to belong to such a group,take a look at:
http://www.redefinegod.com/photo/floatinghouse2008-1

The above is an example of what can be done when we take the opportunity to tune in to that which is Good, Orderly and Desirable--GOD.

Take the time to scroll down to the the video.

Keep in mind that all art is an act of good will--that is, an act of love.
====================================================
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 10/04/09 04:20 AM

Amazing pics and concept, Rev!
Thanks.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 10/08/09 03:50 PM

BTW, before I offer the following opinion let me warn readers: Recently in the agnostics/atheism www.about.com a poster told me: YOU ARE A POMPOUS ASS. This is much better than being a stupid ass, or an asinine wimp.

In the role of a PA I will opine as follows:

God, Spirit (with a capital S), spirit, soul, mind are all one and the same, but they are not things. They are states of Being.

However, out of these no-things all that exists in material form in the Now, including the human body, emanated and evolved and is continuing to do so in the eternal Now and the infinity of Space. I equate Now and Space with Spirit.

To simplify this, I propose the following elegant solution.

BTW, the brilliant physicist, Brain Greene in an interview
http://www.superstringtheory.com/people/bgreene.html
said that "physicists often use the term elegant to describe a solution to a problem that is as powerful as it is simple.

It's a solution which cuts to the heart of an important problem with such clarity that it almost leaves no doubt that the solution is either right or at least on the right track.

And string theory is just that kind of solution. It provides the first way of putting quantum mechanics and general relativity together -- that is, merging the laws of the small and the laws of the large -- and it does it in such a sleek manner that it is quite breathtaking. And the term elegant really describes that kind of solution."

MY POMPOUS PROPOSAL
I propose that we call the beginning, or the alpha point, GoD (that is G zero D)--all Goodness, order and Design, as measurable energy--or quanta--in potential. Quantum mechanics--having to do with laws that govern how small things work.

What do I call the end point, the omega point? I am referring to the goal out there, that towards which we are processing in all directions, according to the principles of relativity--laws that govern how large things work.

To avoid the dangers of anthropomorphism I propose we call that GOD, in capitals. The O here symbolizes the infinity of space.

GOD is that which is the total, universal and all-encompassing Goodness, Order and Desirable design in the largeness of space.

Our role in creation? In a word, we are here to be co-creators. We are here to become free, truly human and humane beings no longer bound by the tyranny of any animal-like drives. We are free to love (agape), to remain confused, or even to hate (misos).

E=MC2 + Imagination X Love

LOVE IS THE FREEDOM TO WILL
Using free will (agape love) we are free to stay where we are--that is, endure the limitations of earth; to devolve, that is make more hell on earth that there is, or to continue to evolve to a heaven on earth and beyond. Simple.

BTW, I do not feel we are ever free to stop existing.

Feel free to critique, and even improve upon the above. Even pompous asses can be trained to be better pompous asses, I hope. laugh
Posted by: eccles

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 10/10/09 06:33 AM

The biggest problem for creationists is to define "purpose" and the mistake is to assume "evolution" needs to have a direction. No doubt "pomposity" can be applied to those who might make such an assumption.

As far as "elegance" is concerned, it is the antithesis of increasing the number of elements in a current "scientific" paradigm. The point is summarized by the principle of "Occam's Razor". In biology, for example, this involves throwing out concepts of "vitalism" as "an essential element" in biological systems. Capra describes this well in his "Web of Life", in which he also points out that it is our cognitive "chauvinism" towards existence which involves us in trying to "get a handle" on it. "God-ism", of any convoluted variety,is merely a decorative part of such a handle.

LATER EDIT

In anticipation of a counter argument that "we" appear to be transcendent of all paradigms,and hence "God-like", I would argue that such a "transcendent we" is an ontological illusion, in so far that "selves" are social constructions, and "we" is merely an extrapolation of that. It may be that "we" are no more "God-like" than the components of an evolutionarily successful insect colony, and that the "language" which evokes "self-concepts" has no more significance than an organizational chemical messaging system for ant colonies. We might also note here that "success" is purely relative, and ants historically seem to have edge, as species go !
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 10/10/09 01:09 PM

Eccles, you say that creationists have "problems"; they make "mistakes", and are often given to "pomposity".

Eccles, before appearing to be pompously judgmental I will ask a few questions:

1. Are you saying that all evolutionists are free from all of the above?

2. If so, where is your evidence?

3. Do you assume that I am a creationist; that I believe in God-ism, and that human beings are already perfect and God-like beings?

4. How familiar are you with the life and work of the process philosopher, theologian, of the late Professor of Mathematics, Alfred North Whitehead?

Alfred North Whitehead (b.1861 - d. 1947), British mathematician, logician and philosopher best known for his work in mathematical logic and the philosophy of science.

In collaboration with Bertrand Russell (a "devout" atheist), he authored the landmark three-volume Principia Mathematica (1910, 1912, 1913) and contributed significantly to twentieth-century logic and metaphysics.
============================================
Charles Hartshorne (June 5, 1897 – October 9, 2000) was a prominent American philosopher who concentrated primarily on the philosophy of religion and metaphysics.

He developed the neoclassical idea of God and produced a modal proof of the existence of God that was a development of St. Anselm's Ontological Argument. Hartshorne is also noted for developing Alfred North Whitehead's process philosophy into process theology.
=================================
BTW, Whitehead's father was an Anglican minister. They must have had interesting talks.

Hartshorne was an episcopalian minister and the son of a minister.
==================
Based on the book:

Universe on a T-Shirt: The Quest for the Theory of everything...by Dan Falk
Have you heard of it?

I humbly submit the following UNIVERSE-ON-A-T SHIRT formula.

MC2 + A = E

E symbolizes all the energy (Good, Order and Desirable design, or GOD) we will ever need.
A, for agape, that is, humble, intelligent and imaginative love, symbolizes all
=================
MC2 + M = BB

M symbolizes misos (like misery? Misunderstand?)--the Greek for hate.
BB stands for BIG bang, a supernova, a really BIG BANG.

As the old song says, "We did it before, and we can do it again!" I hope we can love enough, not to.
Posted by: eccles

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 10/10/09 05:33 PM

You wrote

Quote:
Our role in creation? In a word, we are here to be co-creators.


What have the views of Whitehead, or whether some evolutionists have a "purpose" agenda got anything to do with your creationist position? You are surely not evoking the fallacy of "appeal to authority" are you ? And it must be obvious to you that seeking "proofs" or "evidence" either way is epistemologically naive. I'm pretty sure that Whitehead had little to say about the current non-linear metalogical mathematical models such as "chaos theory" or "systems theory" which support the study of complex systems which are beyond the scope of traditional logic. Such models have, for example, been successfully applied to the phenomenon of the spontaneous emergence of complex structures in dynamic chemical systems far from equilibrium. (ref: Prigogine). "Creation" is to "spontaneous emergence" as "magic" is to "covert mechanism".

The quotation above makes your position crystal clear. The real question is why you might wish to convince others to accept that position. Put quite simply "holistic epiphany" is ineffable and results in a quiescence which dissipates the need to communicate it.
Posted by: eccles

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 10/11/09 07:03 AM

Further to the above, I note that googling "process philosophy" comes up with various accounts.

The "Stanford" one clearly illustrates the bifurcation of "process philosophers" some of whom take a "free will/progress" path such as yourself, and some of whom do not.(The Wiki article is useless in that respect).

However, I retract my my statement about Whitehead's non-involvement with metalogical (dynamic) systems, not withstanding his allegiance to a pantheistic sub-text.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 10/11/09 01:43 PM

"What have the views of Whitehead, or whether some evolutionists have a "purpose" agenda got anything to do with your creationist position?" Eccles

My creationist position? Eccles, I am not a creationist. I am exploring emanation, about which I will say more, later. How familiar are you with the concept?

"However, I retract my my statement about Whitehead's non-involvement with metalogical (dynamic) systems, not withstanding his allegiance to a pantheistic sub-text." Eccles

BTW, I am not sure how familiar Whitehead was with panentheism, which Charles Hartshorne, as an interpreter of Whitehead's philosophy, spent his life expounding.

I am sure that you are aware that the spirit-conscious new physicists are calling for what progressive theologians called for decades ago--a better definition of the god-concept than the one commonly used: god is a being separated from "his" creation.

Posted by: eccles

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 10/11/09 03:59 PM

I am familiar with "emanation" (a) from esoteric concepts of "the ray of creation" which emanates from "the Absolute", and (b) watered down versions (via google) which purport to seperate "creation" from a "primary source" from which secondary process/substances/entities manifest.

Type (b) is basically "teleology" (top down-edness) with the avoidance of "purpose". In fact, systems theory leaves as an open question whether top down hierarchies of nested "organizational structures" are open or closed at "the top" . It seems clear that "theists" go for closure, i.e. they seek ontological a priori principles, whereas "atheists" are content with the implications of Godel's Incompleteness Theorem, that all systems require at least one axiom which cannot be "verified", whether it be in top down or bottom up explanations.

It is my contention (stated on other threads) that part of the price we pay for our cognitive abilities is the desire for closure. Simplistically, we abhor the void encapsulated by Shakespeare's famous description of life as " a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury signifying nothing". Almost anything would seem better than that, and that's what we get, almost anything !


Posted by: eccles

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 10/12/09 05:58 AM

NB I've just spotted your "floating home" clip which prompts me to ponder on the freedom of some us "Westerners" have to live as we please, and to rationalize such freedom within a constructed mode of "spirituality". Any comments ?
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 10/13/09 03:40 AM

"A constructed mode of "spirituality"?
Elaborate on what you mean?
Posted by: eccles

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 10/13/09 06:22 AM

I specifically mean than your freedom to live as you choose (on water it seems)requires you to contruct an mental structure to encompass it, as compared with those who are externally constrained (the boat people of Hong Kong for example). This refers back to my "closure" principle above, and that such constructions are arbitrary, irrespective of your possible phraseology for it which might equate to something like "spiritual creativity lovingly communing with the dynamics of nature". (The point is, for a few bucks, the boat people would wave goodbye to the "bloody" water !).
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 10/15/09 06:37 AM

The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Kyra K 2009
Andrea is discussing this with me.

I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.
Probably not. So, when do you want to start?[Remember, you did ask me to help you.)
Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.
Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.
Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.
Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?
Well, what do you think?
It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?
I wish it was.
Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.
Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.
Which is which?
Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.
You say seemingly?
Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy.
We are not aware that we are aware?
Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.
Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?
Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.
Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.
Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.
I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.
I’m listening.
A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.
Death?
After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock.
Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.
That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?
Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.
Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?
I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’
Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.
So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.
And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness.
The awareness of the Universe.
The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.
Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?
Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.
Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?
Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion.
Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.
Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol.
What are the advantages of believing in this?
Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.
And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.
Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.
How so?
Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.
Is all suffering karma then?
No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.
Now, how can I get this straight?
I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.
1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.
2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.
Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole.
But they still would be?
Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.
But you said..?
The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.
We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.
I see, make it/them aware.
Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away.

Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.
Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.

4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.
Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust.

5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.
We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.

6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism.

7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.

8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.
Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?
Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.
And the Light Energy has always known.
Precisely.

NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 10/18/09 06:14 PM

Originally Posted By: eccles
... (The point is, for a few bucks, the boat people would wave goodbye to the "bloody" water !).
Much of what you said went right by me, especially the last sentence.

The home pictured was built by my artist daughter and her artist husband, not me. It is worth well over one million dollars.

Are you pro, con, or neutral regarding people living on the water? They are not squatters. They have a legal right to use the space.

I live just north of Toronto, Ontario.
Posted by: Ellis

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 10/18/09 11:20 PM

Wouldn't it be freezing cold on the water like that in TORONTO?
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 10/18/09 11:45 PM

No!
Where my daughter lives, Tofino, BC, may get quite cold for a week or two--sometimes for more--in the winter. But they have a heating system which can handle things. Freedom Cove is completely enclosed and escapes big winds.

BTW, her mother and I spoke to our daughter, Catherine, by phone, just a few minutes ago.

Yesterday, I spoke to my sister and her husband (my age) in Grande Cache, Alberta. We also spoke to relatives and friends in the Maritimes, in New Brunswick, and in Newfoundland--all thousands of miles apart.

Amazing.

It seems that, as the Bible says: "The kingdom of GOD is at hand." In other words, the future I used to dream about is now.

Currently, I am now 79. As I get ready for my 80's--unless I get promoted sooner than I think--I am busy dreaming up my next decade. It is up to you to dream up yours.

Interestingly, I read somewhere that people who go to church, regularly, and who truly learn how to live in loving fellowship with one another, live longer. Or does it just seem longer? laugh

IF I WERE AN ATHEIST HERE IS WHAT I WOULD DO
============================================
If I were an atheist--that is, if I were one who did not believe in life after death (maybe some do--let me know)--and if I were smart, I would find a loving fellowship. Or I would create one--one made up of loving atheists, possibly. Or I would go to any other kind of loving church fellowship.

Warning! Beware of the hypocrites. They are everywhere. Believe it or not, they are even among atheists.

BTW, the local church that I go to welcomes anyone who is open to new ideas, including agnostics/atheists. It is one of the thousands of fellowships across Canada known as the United Church of Canada. Here is a contact point or two:

Google on the United church of Canada.

Or meet me at:

http://www.wondercafe.ca/discussion/religion-and-faith/one-month-atheists?page=1


Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 10/23/09 07:21 AM

The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Kyra K 2009
Andrea is discussing this with me.

I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.
Probably not. So, when do you want to start?[Remember, you did ask me to help you.)
Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.
Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.
Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.
Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?
Well, what do you think?
It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?
I wish it was.
Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.
Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.
Which is which?
Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.
You say seemingly?
Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy.
We are not aware that we are aware?
Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.
Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?
Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.
Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.
Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.
I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.
I’m listening.
A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.
Death?
After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock.
Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.
That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?
Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.
Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?
I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’
Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.
So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.
And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness.
The awareness of the Universe.
The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.
Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?
Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.
Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?
Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion.
Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.
Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol.
What are the advantages of believing in this?
Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.
And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.
Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.
How so?
Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.
Is all suffering karma then?
No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.
Now, how can I get this straight?
I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.
1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.
2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.
Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole.
But they still would be?
Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.
But you said..?
The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.
We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.
I see, make it/them aware.
Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away.

Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.
Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.

4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.
Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust.

5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.
We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.

6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism.

7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.

8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.
Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?
Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.
And the Light Energy has always known.
Precisely.

NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 11/07/09 04:18 AM

Member

Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 50 The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Kyra K 2009
Andrea is discussing this with me.

I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.
Probably not. So, when do you want to start?[Remember, you did ask me to help you.)
Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.
Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.
Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.
Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?
Well, what do you think?
It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?
I wish it was.
Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.
Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.
Which is which?
Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.
You say seemingly?
Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy.
We are not aware that we are aware?
Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.
Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?
Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.
Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.
Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.
I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.
I’m listening.
A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.
Death?
After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock.
Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.
That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?
Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.
Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?
I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’
Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.
So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.
And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness.
The awareness of the Universe.
The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.
Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?
Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.
Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?
Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion.
Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.
Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol.
What are the advantages of believing in this?
Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.
And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.
Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.
How so?
Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.
Is all suffering karma then?
No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.
Now, how can I get this straight?
I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.
1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.
2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.
Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole.
But they still would be?
Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.
But you said..?
The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.
We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.
I see, make it/them aware.
Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away.

Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.
Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.

4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.
Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust.

5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.
We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.

6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism.

7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.

8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.
Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?
Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.
And the Light Energy has always known.
Precisely.

NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 12/23/09 01:51 AM

The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Kyra K 2009
Andrea is discussing this with me.

I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.

Probably not. So, when do you want to start?[Remember, you did ask me to help you.)

Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.

Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.

Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.

Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?

Well, what do you think?

It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?

I wish it was.

Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.

Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.

Which is which?

Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.

You say seemingly?

Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy.

We are not aware that we are aware?

Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.

Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?

Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.

Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.

Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.
I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.

I’m listening.

A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.

Death?

After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock.
Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.

That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?

Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.

Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?

I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’
Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.
So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.
And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness.

The awareness of the Universe.

The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.

Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?

Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.

Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?

Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion.
Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.
Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol.

What are the advantages of believing in this?

Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.

And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.

Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.

How so?

Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.

Is all suffering karma then?

No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.

Now, how can I get this straight?

I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.
1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.
2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.
Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole.

But they still would be?

Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.

But you said..?

The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.
We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.

I see, make it/them aware.

Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away.
Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.
Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.

4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.
Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust.

5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.
We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.

6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism.

7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.

8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.
Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?
Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.

And the Light Energy has always known.

Precisely.

NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 02/28/10 02:16 AM


Kyra M
Member

Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 52 The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Kyra K 2009
Andrea is discussing this with me.

I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.
Probably not. So, when do you want to start?[Remember, you did ask me to help you.)
Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.
Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.
Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.
Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?
Well, what do you think?
It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?
I wish it was.
Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.
Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.
Which is which?
Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.
You say seemingly?
Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy.
We are not aware that we are aware?
Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.
Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?
Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.
Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.
Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.
I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.
I’m listening.
A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.
Death?
After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock.
Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.
That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?
Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.
Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?
I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’
Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.
So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.
And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness.
The awareness of the Universe.
The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.
Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?
Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.
Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?
Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion.
Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.
Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol.
What are the advantages of believing in this?
Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.
And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.
Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.
How so?
Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.
Is all suffering karma then?
No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.
Now, how can I get this straight?
I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.
1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.
2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.
Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole.
But they still would be?
Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.
But you said..?
The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.
We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.
I see, make it/them aware.
Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away.

Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.
Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.

4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.
Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust.

5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.
We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.

6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism.

7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.

8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.
Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?
Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.
And the Light Energy has always known.
Precisely.

NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 03/16/10 04:07 AM

The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Kyra K 2009
Andrea is discussing this with me.

I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.
Probably not. So, when do you want to start?[Remember, you did ask me to help you.)
Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.
Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.
Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.
Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?
Well, what do you think?
It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?
I wish it was.
Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.
Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.
Which is which?
Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.
You say seemingly?
Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy.
We are not aware that we are aware?
Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.
Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?
Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.
Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.
Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.
I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.
I’m listening.
A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.
Death?
After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock.
Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.
That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?
Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.
Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?
I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’
Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.
So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.
And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness.
The awareness of the Universe.
The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.
Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?
Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.
Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?
Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion.
Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.
Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol.
What are the advantages of believing in this?
Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.
And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.
Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.
How so?
Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.
Is all suffering karma then?
No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.
Now, how can I get this straight?
I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.
1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.
2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.
Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole.
But they still would be?
Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.
But you said..?
The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.
We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.
I see, make it/them aware.
Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away.

Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.
Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.

4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.
Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust.

5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.
We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.

6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism.

7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.

8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.
Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?
Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.
And the Light Energy has always known.
Precisely.

NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 03/27/10 02:54 AM

The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Kyra K 2009
Andrea is discussing this with me.

I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.
Probably not. So, when do you want to start?[Remember, you did ask me to help you.)
Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.
Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.
Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.
Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?
Well, what do you think?
It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?
I wish it was.
Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.
Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.
Which is which?
Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.
You say seemingly?
Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy.
We are not aware that we are aware?
Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.
Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?
Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.
Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.
Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.
I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.
I’m listening.
A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.
Death?
After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock.
Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.
That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?
Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.
Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?
I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’
Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.
So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.
And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness.
The awareness of the Universe.
The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.
Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?
Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.
Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?
Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion.
Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.
Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol.
What are the advantages of believing in this?
Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.
And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.
Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.
How so?
Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.
Is all suffering karma then?
No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.
Now, how can I get this straight?
I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.
1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.
2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.
Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole.
But they still would be?
Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.
But you said..?
The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.
We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.
I see, make it/them aware.
Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away.

Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.
Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.

4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.
Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust.

5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.
We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.

6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism.

7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.

8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.
Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?
Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.
And the Light Energy has always known.
Precisely.

NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 03/28/10 02:22 AM

Kyra and Andrea, pardon this old fogy for what you may think of as an intrusion. If you wish, feel free to tell me you have everything under control. I will not be offended. However, if you would welcome some help in making it easier for readers to understand what you want to say, think about the following.

Kyra, it is my understanding that your main goal is to you tell your readers, as clearly as possible, what you mean by "Whole Threadism". You want us to have a clear idea of what you mean, right?

It seems to me that to do this you have chosen to use the same method as used by Socrates in famous DIALOGUES OF PLATO--a wise choice. Therefore, may I suggest you do the following: Like in a play, make it clear who is saying what to whom. To illustrate what I mean, using the first part of what I assume you said to each other, I offer the following:

=================================================
FELLOW POSTERS, KYRA HERE. WHOLE THREADISM, AS MANY OF YOU ALREADY KNOW IS A CONCEPT WHICH IS NEAR AND DEAR TO MY HEART.(©Kyra K 2009).

To help me, Kyra, to clarify my thoughts I have asked a friend, Andrea, to dialogue with me about this. Readers, feel free to participate in the dialogue with your comments and questions.

Kyra: I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.

Andrea: Probably not. So, when do you want to start? [Remember, you did ask me to help you.)

Kyra: Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back to me with more questions to my answers. It’s all speculation you know. Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.

Andrea: Okay, here goes: Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy. That is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and, I think, it may be of us.

Kyra: Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?

Andrea: Well, what do you think?

Kyra: It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?

Andrea: I wish it was.

Kyra: Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.

Andrea: Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.

Kyra: Which is which?

Andrea: Look! I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis: We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.

Kyra: You say, seemingly?

===============================
BTW, make a point of doing a search on the work of Alfred North Whitehead, Process Philosophy and Theology, and Panentheism--not to be confused with pantheism. http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/panentheism/#His
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Cobb
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Hartshorne
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 04/05/10 06:54 AM

Hi Rev,
Great idea, I did write this originally with italics for Andrea but it didn't come out when I posted it on here.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 04/09/10 05:56 AM

The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Myra King 2009
Andrea, who is my alter ego, is in italics.

Me: I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.
Andrea: Probably not. So, when do you want to start? Remember, you did ask me to help you.
Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.
Andrea: Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.
Me: Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.
Andrea: Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?
Well, what do you think?
Andrea: It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?
Me: Oh, god, I wish it was.
Andrea: Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.
Me:Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.
Andrea: Which is which?
Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.
Andrea: You say seemingly?
Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy.
Andrea: We are not aware that we are aware?
Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.
Andrea: Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?
Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.
Andrea: Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.
Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.
I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.
Andrea: I’m listening.
A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.
Andrea: Death?
After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock.
Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.
Andrea: That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?
Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.
Andrea: Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?
I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’
Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.
So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.
And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness.
Andrea: The awareness of the Universe.
The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.
Andrea: Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?
Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.
Andrea: Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?
Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion.
Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.
Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol.
Andrea: What are the advantages of believing in this?
Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.
Andrea: And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.
Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.
Andrea: How so?
Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.
Andrea: Is all suffering karma then?
No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.
Andrea: Now, how can I get this straight?
I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.
1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.
2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.
Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole.
Andrea: But they still would be?
Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.
Andrea: But you said..?
The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.
We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.
Andrea: I see, make it/them aware.
Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away.

Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.
Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.

4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.
Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust.

5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.
We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.

6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism.

7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.

8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.
Andrea: Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?
Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.
Andrea: And the Light Energy has always known.
Precisely.

NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 05/06/10 07:40 AM


Me: I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.
Andrea: Probably not. So, when do you want to start? Remember, you did ask me to help you.
Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.
Andrea: Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.
Me: Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.
Andrea: Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?
Well, what do you think?
Andrea: It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?
Me: Oh, god, I wish it was.
Andrea: Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.
Me:Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.
Andrea: Which is which?
Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.
Andrea: You say seemingly?
Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy.
Andrea: We are not aware that we are aware?
Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.
Andrea: Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?
Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.
Andrea: Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.
Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.
I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.
Andrea: I’m listening.
A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.
Andrea: Death?
After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock.
Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.
Andrea: That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?
Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.
Andrea: Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?
I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’
Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.
So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.
And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness.
Andrea: The awareness of the Universe.
The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.
Andrea: Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?
Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.
Andrea: Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?
Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion.
Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.
Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol.
Andrea: What are the advantages of believing in this?
Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.
Andrea: And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.
Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.
Andrea: How so?
Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.
Andrea: Is all suffering karma then?
No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.
Andrea: Now, how can I get this straight?
I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.
1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.
2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.
Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole.
Andrea: But they still would be?
Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.
Andrea: But you said..?
The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.
We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.
Andrea: I see, make it/them aware.
Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away.

Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.
Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.

4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.
Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust.

5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.
We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.

6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism.

7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.

8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.
Andrea: Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?
Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.
Andrea: And the Light Energy has always known.
Precisely.

NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/21/10 07:23 AM


Kyra M
Member

Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 58 The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Kyra K 2009
Andrea is discussing this with me.

I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.
Probably not. So, when do you want to start?[Remember, you did ask me to help you.)
Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.
Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.
Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.
Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?
Well, what do you think?
It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?
I wish it was.
Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.
Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.
Which is which?
Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.
You say seemingly?
Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy.
We are not aware that we are aware?
Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.
Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?
Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.
Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.
Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.
I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.
I’m listening.
A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.
Death?
After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock.
Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.
That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?
Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.
Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?
I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’
Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.
So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.
And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness.
The awareness of the Universe.
The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.
Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?
Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.
Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?
Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion.
Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.
Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol.
What are the advantages of believing in this?
Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.
And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.
Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.
How so?
Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.
Is all suffering karma then?
No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.
Now, how can I get this straight?
I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.
1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.
2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.
Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole.
But they still would be?
Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.
But you said..?
The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.
We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.
I see, make it/them aware.
Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away.

Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.
Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.

4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.
Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust.

5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.
We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.

6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism.

7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.

8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.
Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?
Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.
And the Light Energy has always known.
Precisely.

NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/21/10 10:19 PM

Quote:
4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.

Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust.
Kyra, Good to see that this thread is back in action.

GOD IS ALL BEING
----000----

GOD--the all that is Good, Orderly and Desirable, including life--
GOD is the who in you,
Including all beings with personalities.
GOD is the what in all things--
Things with three dimensions,
Which occupy space and time.
GOD is the where in infinite space,
Which we call infinity, and,
GOD is Being itself--the when
In the eternal now, which we call time.
Finally, GOD is the why
In all that has meaning and purpose.
==================================

Me? without any dogma involved, as a unit of All Being with the power to will, I simply tune into, connect with, All Being, give good will--some call it love--and good things seem
to happen.

Hint: There is infinite space in cyberspace. Therefore, spread out your ideas.
Posted by: kallog

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/22/10 01:18 AM

Forgive me for not having a clue what you guys are on about, but what in the bageezus are you guys on about?!?! It might help to either define the terms or invent new words rather than confuse yourselves with overloaded, ambiguous, emotional ones.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/22/10 03:02 AM

Kallog, I just checked your profile. What the bageezus are you all about? Give us a clue.

Us? We are all about what it means to be human and humane beings. When you are ready, come and join us. grin smile
Posted by: kallog

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/22/10 12:06 PM

What's dark energy got to do with being humane beings? Is it an analogy for something? Why not explain the idea directly?
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/22/10 01:29 PM

Kallog, I assume you know how to do a search, eh? It took me less than a minute to find the references at the foot of this post.

Like the GOD-concept, some is known about dark energy and the like, but much of it is still a mystery.

By the way, in my reading I have noticed that, beginning with the first particle-physicists--great thinkers like, Max Planck, Maxwell, Thompson, Einstein and others, physicists started saying things about nature that were once only said by the theologians and the philosophers, who were thought insane by the "scientists" of their day. Theology/philosophy/psychology are all of great interest to me.

Yes, it was once said of me, when I wrote articles in a Toronto paper about using hypnosis--which I now call pneumatherapy--to treat life-threatening diseases: "He is not just out on a limb, he is on a twig on the end of the limb". BTW, I always work in cooperation with medical science.
===============
Meanwhile, check out:
http://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus-areas/what-is-dark-energy/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_energy
===========
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_physics#History
http://www.google.ca/search?q=Planck%2C+Thompson%2C+Maxwell%2C+physicists&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.mandriva:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/22/10 01:52 PM

TO THE ABOVE I ADD THE FOLLOWING NOTE:

Physicists like Michio Kaku, Brian Swimme, Seth Lloyd and others have gone beyond particle physics and quantum mechanics. Talk now is about immeasurable energies which can be accessed and used by human thinkers, especially those who have artistic imaginations. Warning: Such energies can be used for good, or ill--to destroy, or to create.

No wonder that Einstein said: "Imagination is more important than knowledge".
====================
http://www.rateitall.com/i-2211305-the-h...-schroeder.aspx
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread544356/pg1
http://www.futurefoundation.org/documents/hum_pro_sem2.pdf
Posted by: kallog

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/23/10 02:37 AM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
It took me less than a minute to find the references at the foot of this post.


I didn't ask what dark energy is. Those links don't explain the connection between dark energy and being humane beings.
Posted by: kallog

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/23/10 02:41 AM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Physicists like Michio Kaku, Brian Swimme, Seth Lloyd and others have gone beyond particle physics and quantum mechanics. Talk now is about immeasurable energies which can be accessed and used by human thinkers, especially


So those aren't dark energy because dark energy is measurable. I joined this thread to understand what it was about. Can you explain any of the ideas without the use of analogies or name-dropping? Those links don't seem to have an relevance - one wants me to buy a book, another is people talking about whether scientists are atheists or not. Is that what "threadism" is? The religious beliefs of scientists?



Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/23/10 09:10 PM

ABOUT DARK MATTER & DARK ENERGY
===============================
I just found the article, below, in
http://nedwww.ipac.caltech.edu ...

The article is about

1. THE PREPOSTEROUS UNIVERSE (Title as given)
[Do scientists expect us laity to believe that what is going on in the universe is contrary to nature, reason, or commonsense; absurd; senseless? Ridiculous? Laughable? Sounds very human (and theological?) to me. smile ]

I am not making the following up: "Surprising experimental results are the most common driving force behind significant advances in scientific understanding. The recent discovery that the universe appears to be dominated by a component of "dark energy" qualifies as an extraordinarily surprising result; we have every reason to be optimistic that attempts to understand this phenomenon will lead to profound improvements in our pictures of gravitation, particle physics, and gravitation."

I repeat, the above sounds very metaphysical, and even theological. And there is more:

"1.1. Dark energy

In general relativity, a homogeneous and isotropic universe is characterized by two quantities, the spatial curvature kappa and scale factor a(t). These are related to the energy density $ \rho$ by the Friedmann equation:"

... The equation cannot be reproduced here. It is in the article ...
==================================

Below, I give the link to the full article, from which I give the following brief quote with a very interesting question:

Quote:
2. WHAT MIGHT BE GOING ON?

It may seem misguided to put a great deal of energy into exploring models of a small nonzero dark energy density when we have very little idea why the vacuum energy is not as large as the Planck scale. On the other hand, the discovery of dark energy may provide an invaluable clue in our attempts to solve this long-lasting puzzle, giving us reason to redouble our efforts. Explanations of the current acceleration of the universe can be categorized into one of three types:

1. The dark energy is a true cosmological constant, strictly unchanging throughout space and time. The minimum-energy configuration of the universe may have a small but nonvanishing energy density, or we may live in a false vacuum, almost degenerate with the true one but with a small nonzero additional energy.

2. The cosmological constant is zero, but a slowly-varying dynamical component is mimicking a nonzero vacuum energy.

3. Einstein was wrong, and the Friedmann equation does not describe the expansion of the universe.

We briefly examine each of these possibilities in turn.

2.1. An honest cosmological constant

The simplest interpretation of the dark energy is that we have discovered that the cosmological constant is not quite zero: we are in the lowest energy state possible (or, more properly, that the particles we observe are excitations of such a state) but that energy does not vanish. Although simple, this scenario is perhaps the hardest to analyze without an understanding of the complete cosmological constant problem, and there is correspondingly little to say about such a possibility. As targets to shoot for, various numerological coincidences have been pointed out, which may some day find homes as predictions of an actual theory. For example, the observed vacuum energy scale Mvac = 10-3 eV is related to the 1 TeV scale of low-energy supersymmetry breaking models by a "supergravity suppression factor":

Equation 8 (8)

In other words, MSUSY is the geometric mean of Mvac and MPlanck. Unfortunately, nobody knows why this should be the case. In a similar spirit, the vacuum energy density is related to the Planck energy density by the kind of suppression factor familiar from instanton calculations in gauge theories:

Equation 9 ...

http://nedwww.ipac.caltech.edu/level5/March01/Carroll/Carroll2.html

Is it possible for someone trained in physics to put this information in journalese so that we lay readers with an interest in science, but are not all that familiar with the jargon of physics, could possibly understand.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/23/10 09:54 PM

THE RELIGION OF MAX PLANCK
==========================
Quote:
Max Planck: "Max Karl Ernst Ludwig Planck was born on April 23, 1858, in Kiel, Germany, the sixth child of a distinguished jurist and professor of law at the University of Kiel. The long family tradition of devotion to church and state, excellence in scholarship, incorruptibility, conservatism, idealism, reliability, and generosity became deeply ingrained in Planck's own life and work...

In his later years, Planck devoted more and more of his writings to philosophical, aesthetic, and religious questions.

Together with Einstein and Schrödinger, he remained adamantly opposed to the indeterministic, statistical worldview introduced by Bohr, Max Born, Werner Heisenberg, and others into physics after the advent of quantum mechanics in 1925-26. Such a view was not in harmony with Planck's deepest intuitions and beliefs.

The physical universe, Planck argued, is an objective entity existing independently of man; the observer and the observed are not intimately coupled, as Bohr and his school would have it."
[Source: http://astro.estec.esa.nl/SA-general/Projects/Planck/mplanck/mplanck.html].

From: Rich Deem, "Famous Scientists Who Believed in God", last modified 19 May 2005, on "Evidence for God from Science" website (http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html; viewed 5 October 2005):

Planck made many contributions to physics, but is best known for quantum theory, which has revolutionized our understanding of the atomic and sub-atomic worlds.

In his 1937 lecture "Religion and Naturwissenschaft," Planck expressed the view that God is everywhere present, and held that "the holiness of the unintelligible Godhead is conveyed by the holiness of symbols." Atheists, he thought, attach too much importance to what are merely symbols.

Planck was a churchwarden from 1920 until his death, and believed in an almighty, all-knowing, beneficent God (though not necessarily a personal one). [I suspect that he would agree: GOD is Being, not A being.]

Both science and religion wage a "tireless battle against skepticism and dogmatism, against unbelief and superstition" with the goal "toward God!"

[Source:] J. L. Heillron, Dilemmas of an Upright Man (1986)

http://www.adherents.com/people/pp/Max_Planck.html[b][/b]
Posted by: kallog

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/24/10 03:37 AM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking

[Do scientists expect us laity to believe that what is going on in the universe is contrary to nature, reason, or commonsense; absurd; senseless? Ridiculous? Laughable? Sounds very human (and theological?) to me. smile ]


Contrary to nature - no
Contrary to reason - no
Contrary to commonsense - yes
Absurd - no
Senseless - yes
Ridiculous - no
Laughable - no

People who don't think critically often mix up these terms. Just because one person doesn't understand something doesn't mean it's absurd. Commonsense is handy for common situations but there's no reason we should expect it to be relevant to things we have no experience with.


Quote:

I repeat, the above sounds very metaphysical, and even theological. And there is more:

Nothing metaphysical, theological or humane in there at all. If you replace the term "dark energy" with "hydrogen rich gas" does it still give you those emotions?
Posted by: kallog

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/24/10 03:42 AM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
THE RELIGION OF MAX PLANCK


You're coming back to religious beliefs of scientists. Is this an important aspect of 'whole and threadism'? That and dark energy. Is that what it is? Just two unrelated concepts being described by a single name?
Posted by: samwik

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/24/10 05:29 PM

Originally Posted By: kallog
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Physicists like Michio Kaku, Brian Swimme, Seth Lloyd and others have gone beyond particle physics and quantum mechanics. Talk now is about immeasurable energies which can be accessed and used by human thinkers, especially


So those aren't dark energy because dark energy is measurable. I joined this thread to understand what it was about. Can you explain any of the ideas without the use of analogies or name-dropping? Those links don't seem to have an relevance - one wants me to buy a book, another is people talking about whether scientists are atheists or not. Is that what "threadism" is? The religious beliefs of scientists?





Isn't Dark Energy (or dark matter) "dark" by defition because it's un-measurable?
Just because they can infer a certain amount of "something" must exist (to explain the current theories), doesn't mean "something" has been directly measured. It may not even exist, but it is only postulated to exist based on current theories. But dark stuff has never been directly observed or measured, has it?
===

...but regarding that 95% of the universe that is sugested to be composed of dark energy and dark matter....
I think the idea that everything we know about the universe applies to only 5% of that universe means that there is a lot of room for things we don't understand. Or conversely, our understanding of the universe is only 5% correct--and even that 5% is not completely correct yet--so it just seems more likely that some unusual connectedness underlies the reality that we perceive. If the other 95% is as complex as this 5%, then it would be so much more likely that some omnipotent founding force informs this Creation.

I just recently ran across this perspective that says things in a way better than I thought possible ...for trying to describe this broadly inclusive, somewhat mystical, view... a view that seems reasonable, but hard to express with definitive language. This is, imho, the best expression I've seen so far for this comprehensive idea:

Originally Posted By: wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Langan
Langan has developed his own "theory of the relationship between mind and reality" which he calls the "Cognitive-Theoretic Model of the Universe (CTMU)".

"I believe in the theory of evolution, but I believe as well in the allegorical truth of creation theory. In other words, I believe that evolution, including the principle of natural selection, is one of the tools used by God to create mankind."

Langan explains on his website that he believes "since Biblical accounts of the genesis of our world and species are true but metaphorical, our task is to correctly decipher the metaphor in light of scientific evidence also given to us by God".
...
"This implies that we all exist in what can be called "the Mind of God", and that our individual minds are parts of God's Mind. They are not as powerful as God's Mind, for they are only parts thereof; yet, they are directly connected to the greatest source of knowledge and power that exists. This connection of our minds to the Mind of God, which is like the connection of parts to a whole, is what we sometimes call the soul or spirit, and it is the most crucial and essential part of being human."

===

"I believe that there is a level on which science and religious metaphor are mutually compatible." -C.M. Langan
===


I also believe this; especially when you realize that our "science" is also only a metaphor (or theory/model) for this universe... this Creation we inhabit.

~:)
Posted by: redewenur

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/25/10 02:15 AM

People have a notorious propensity for creating mythologies to fill whatever knowledge gaps happen to exist. As science fills those gaps, believers struggle to cling to old mythologies which, nonetheless, must either evolve or eventually die. Yet, as science makes new discoveries new questions arise and new gaps are found; and those new gaps offer opportunities for new mythologies to evolve and develop, and so the cycle continues. The need to adhere to, or to formulate, a metaphysical belief system is natural and understandable - but it's folly to look to the physical world to substantiate such a system. Belief that Dark Matter and Dark Energy must be unmeasurable may be commensurate with some inner need, but it's a walk on thin ice.
Posted by: kallog

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/25/10 03:27 AM

Originally Posted By: samwik

Isn't Dark Energy (or dark matter) "dark" by defition because it's un-measurable?

Just because they can infer a certain amount of "something" must exist (to explain the current theories), doesn't mean


Yea indirectly measured, maybe measured wrongly, but still measured. They've quantified how much they detected. That's different from more unmeasurable quantities like whatever that 'energy' that can be accessed by human thinkers is.


Quote:

are true but metaphorical, our task is to correctly decipher the metaphor in light of scientific evidence also


That's trivially true. Any statement can be considered a metaphor, and interpreted to metaphorically describe something which we've already discovered by another means. You shouldn't limit yourself to religious documents. There are plenty of fairytales from all round the world which are just as correct - if interpreted metaphorically to fit whatever you happen to already know.
Posted by: kallog

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/25/10 03:34 AM

Originally Posted By: redewenur
People have a notorious propensity for creating mythologies to fill whatever knowledge gaps happen to exist. As science fills those gaps, believers struggle to


Yea I think that's where they're heading. But the story's so clouded by swathes of arbitrary information and biographies that it doesn't even begin to make any sense at all.

Samwik just summed up the same idea with:

"If the other 95% is as complex as this 5%, then it would be so much more likely that some omnipotent founding force informs this Creation."
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/25/10 03:40 AM

Samwik, thanks for your insight.

Talking about powers that can be used to create and/or destroy, in the Agnosticism/Atheism forum
http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?msg=44735.127&nav=messages&webtag=ab-atheism
I am having a dialogue about the DIFFERENCES BETWEEN luv (eros), love (philia), and Love (agape) as practiced by human beings.

In the Greek New Testament, the word agape--the special Greek word for GOD-like Love--is used 140 times. In I Corinthian 13--Paul's great poem on agape/Love--Paul calls it "the greatest of these ...". In I John 4:7-21 John tells us that GOD is Love.

Love does not just mean luv--that is, the erotic, sexual, sensual and somatic-hormone-driven kind of luv--valuable in its right place though it is.

How prepared and ready are we as human beings to be truly humane beings--that is, capable of being truly Loving, without conditions?

When GOD is Love
Redewenur, GOD as Love is not about being a "god of the gaps". smile

In my humble opinion, GOD (not as a being separate from us)--at work in and through human beings, willing so to mediate it--is Love. When this happens, luv (eros)--that is, sexual attraction to wives--becomes more than just lust, it builds families. When not used to build families it can be the opposite--a most destructive and even criminal force.

Love (philia), in the ordinary friendship-sense of the word, becomes loyalty. It is a power that can build communities, nations and the global village.

GOD, as Love (agape)--that is, as unconditional love, is that quality which gives good will, regardless of conditions and circumstances, the ability to give good will, and to do good things to all and sundry, even under the worst of circumstances.

Obviously, the romantic kind of hormone-generated luv we find in certain movies and read about in cheap novels is not Love. Nor is it love as friendship. When the handsome hero in the James-Bond movie series "makes luv" to his "luver" he is really saying, "I like me, and I want you ..."
Posted by: kallog

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/25/10 04:52 AM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking

GOD, as Love (agape)--that is, as unconditional love, is that quality which gives good will, regardless of conditions and circumstances, the ability to give good will, and to do good


That's not the Christian God as I understand it. With him you have to love him unconditionally, but he's allowed to throw you in a lake of fire if the conditions permit.

Are you inventing a new God who doesn't punish people?

More to the point, how is that connected to dark energy? There's plenty we don't know about the universe without even considering dark energy. God might just be hiding away in the distance where we can't see him.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/25/10 05:57 AM

Kallog, I like your frank comments. I think it was Voltaire who said: "If God did not exist we would need to invent him." laugh

But seriously, as I understand the GOD-idea, there is NOTHING beside, other-than, or outside GOD--the simple ability, the gift, we all have to will good, even when we do not feel like it.

Once this idea came to me and I stopped thinking of a god as a separate being to whom I had to plead, pray and offer homage--and this happened years ago--the dark energies within me began to fill with light. Try it, you'll like it.

The simple act of giving good will (but it takes a little practice) to all people and circumstances, is all that I did. No complicated philosophy, theology, creeds or religion was necessary. Of course, it is fun to think, read and talk about them.

I find that good will sincerely given--and I do it, consciously and unconsciously, with every thought and breath--dissipates all darkness, anger, resentment, fear, depression, whatever and brings light to all situations.
Posted by: kallog

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/25/10 06:22 AM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking

the dark energies within me

Hang on, that obviously a different dark energy, right? This is where I reckon inventing new words would be a good idea to avoid confusion.

Quote:

The simple act of giving good will (but it takes a little

That's cool, but what's it got to do with God? It sounds like you've made God redundant.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/25/10 02:13 PM

Quote:
That's cool, but what's it got to do with God? It sounds like you've made God redundant.
BTW, right now, when you use the word 'God' or 'god' what comes to mind? Anything? In what faith, religion, theology, philosophy were you born and raised?

When I was a child, I was raised--in a loosey-goosey sort of way--to believe in a god who was somewhat like an invisible and supernatural, or spiritual, being--an invisible friend who could see and hear everything I did, one who would listen to me when I talked. I got suspicious of the idea when "he" did not talk back.

I gave up believing in mental idols that about the same time I started to think for myself and discovered that Santa existed only in story books and in the comics. I think I was born asking questions. laugh Yes, I am willing to say more on this--if I am not boring you, eh?


Posted by: kallog

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/29/10 03:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking

When I was a child, I was raised--in a loosey-goosey sort of way--to believe in a god who was somewhat like an invisible and supernatural, or spiritual, being--an invisible friend who could see and hear everything I did, one who would listen to me when I talked. I got suspicious of the idea when "he" did not talk back.


Yea same here. Then that degenerated into more of an Einstein's god who doesn't even have a consciousness, but is basically another word for "nature", now I just call it what it is - nature.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/29/10 05:22 PM

Nature, GOD for you! I am sure you are a GOD-natured person. Now that you have been converted to all that is Good, Orderly and Desirable, send me an offering. If you don't, I will stop sending rays of awareness to you and you will become a robot--ready to be programmed by any master who owns you. Am I making my consciousness understood? laugh laugh

But seriously, IMO, the consciousness of GOD is in us--collectively. Think of this: Any community filled with GOD-like--good-intentioned, good-inclined, etc--people is a good place--a GOD-like place--to live.
Posted by: kallog

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/30/10 02:38 AM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
But seriously, IMO, the consciousness of GOD is in us--collectively. Think of this: Any community filled with GOD-like--good-intentioned, good-inclined, etc--people is a good place--a GOD-like place--to live.


Somehow you're associating God with good. There's not many religions with good gods! Why not just call it "us collectively"? Otherwise there's no point having the word god because it's got too many meanings and nobody will understand each other.
Posted by: samwik

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/31/10 01:46 AM

Originally Posted By: kallog
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
But seriously, IMO, the consciousness of GOD is in us--collectively. Think of this: Any community filled with GOD-like--good-intentioned, good-inclined, etc--people is a good place--a GOD-like place--to live.


Somehow you're associating God with good. There's not many religions with good gods! Why not just call it "us collectively"? Otherwise there's no point having the word god because it's got too many meanings and nobody will understand each other.




Yes, definitions (interpretations) tend to get in the way....
Calling it "us collectively" or "oneness" is one answer. Avoiding the name overall is a path some choose. And if you pinned them down, all the members of any given church would probably have fairly different definitions, but they probably all think the others agree. An old man on a throne... an entity... or a process... there are lots of ways to conceptualize or define G0d. I wonder which definition or concept athiests reject.... I know which ones that I reject, and which direction seems to work.
===

...to catch up a bit....
I still think "dark" stuff has only been postulated, based on other measurements, but not itself directly measured or "sensed or perceived" in any direct manner; but whatever....

Yes, there are many metaphors--which can be interpreted in many way--but not neccessarily "correctly" deciphered or interpreted "in light of scientific evidence ...."
===

Referring to "Dark" stuff, that 95% of reality of which we cannot perceive or sense, is not an appeal to a "G0d of the Gaps" argument ...though 95% is a pretty big gap... but it is a reminder that the 5% of "reality" that we can perceive and measure is illusory, metaphorical, and seems to be derived from some more fundamental reality. The material universe does not seem to be solid enough to hang any rejection of other immeasurable possibilities upon.

===

But whether it is humanism or spiritualism... the meaning, understanding, and consequences behind the definitions are about the same, aren't they? And regardless of how or who defines what whichever way, as a species we are stuck here in this world.

Thought you might be interested in this, which sounded somewhat familiar. I just signed the Oneness Day petition:
http://humanitysteam.org/sai/oneness-petition/document

...billed as a Civil Rights Movement for the Soul....

at: http://humanitysteam.org/
Here's #1 from the petition:
"1. That the message We Are All One, inter-related, inter-connected and inter-dependent, with God/Life/One-another, is the one spiritual message that the world has been waiting for to bring about loving and sustainable answers to humanity’s challenges. "
===

...and speaking of the Millennium Development Goals (humanity’s challenges)....
Biochar, as a nexus for global carbon management, can do more to realize all eight goals than any other single practice. Restoring the bio-chemo-geosphere, our planet, is a righteous mission for humanity. So far, we are not very well fulfilling our charge to be good stewards (Genesis 1:28-30).

...and speaking of oneness... understanding biochar's use and effects, as a nexus of the carbon cycle that is the basis of Life and an expression of G0d's Design & Creativity, is a special way of honoring G0d's Creation... or a special way of promoting sustainability for our species ...life-everlasting... or to become one with the Creation.
===

Considering our time as a species here on Earth....
The Agricultural Revolution is not yet over!

"Larding the Lean Earth" is a good book to read on the subject.

http://hypography.com/forums/terra-preta/10700-terra-preta-humor-poems-prose-wit-3.html#post300787
...for my comments; or for the internet's commentary:

http://www.conservativemonitor.com/society/2002016.shtml
http://cometherevolution.org/?p=108
http://us.macmillan.com/lardingtheleanearth

The author quotes from the 1850's:
"Well might the Chickasaws and Choctaws question the moral right of the act by which their beautiful, park-like hunting grounds were turned over to another race, on the plea that they did not put them to the uses for which the Creator intended them.... Under their system these lands would have lasted forever; under ours, as heretofore practiced, in less than a century more the State would be reduced to the condition of the Roman Campagna." -p.203
The trail of tears keeps flowing....

~
Posted by: kallog

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/31/10 03:07 AM

Originally Posted By: samwik

I still think "dark" stuff has only been postulated, based on other measurements, but not itself directly measured or "sensed or perceived" in any direct manner; but


That's a long way from God which hasn't even been sensed or perceived in any way whatsoever, outside of imagination - the same imagination that created two-headed flying dragons in the Alps, Loch Ness monsters, etc.

Furthermore, dark matter and dark energy are only defined by what we've found out about them. Physicists haven't taken the extra step of claiming imaginary extra properties for them just because it feels nice.
Posted by: samwik

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/31/10 04:36 AM

Originally Posted By: kallog
Originally Posted By: samwik

I still think "dark" stuff has only been postulated, based on other measurements, but not itself directly measured or "sensed or perceived" in any direct manner; but


That's a long way from God which hasn't even been sensed or perceived in any way whatsoever, outside of imagination - the same imagination that created two-headed flying dragons in the Alps, Loch Ness monsters, etc.

Furthermore, dark matter and dark energy are only defined by what we've found out about them. Physicists haven't taken the extra step of claiming imaginary extra properties for them just because it feels nice.



Nor was I or anyone here trying to equate Dark stuff with anything spiritual (or with "imaginary extra properties"). And probably we agree that science is the perfect tool to use for understanding the material universe.

Again, it's just that we know enough of the material universe to see how limited our perceptions are, so anything is possible in the bigger picture. It seems that the material universe is an emergent phenomenon of some more fundamental reality, so why limit youself to only material-based understanding. There are patterns within material-based emergent manifestations that 'hint at' and suggest the nature of the more fundamental reality, but I think that so far the Humanities (literature) expresses those hints better than Physics, but physics is getting closer.

All the metaphors are beautiful and useful in their own way; personally I like the Flying Spaghetti Monster, since spaghetti works well as a metaphor for all those "higher" dimensions out of which energy and spacetime manifest as artifacts. Do you think there are really atoms flying around like "little billiard balls" as the models (scientific metaphors) suggest, or is that just how we perceive and usefully define them? C'mon, reality is really just like a big ball of spaghetti... but we can only perceive the intersections of the strands.... Or words to that effect. Those links may provide better metaphors.

~ wink
Posted by: kallog

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/31/10 05:09 AM

Originally Posted By: samwik

Nor was I or anyone here trying to equate Dark stuff with anything spiritual (or with "imaginary extra properties").


OK, glad that's cleared up.


Quote:

the material universe is an emergent phenomenon of some more fundamental reality, so why limit youself to only


May well be. And animals are an emergent phenomenon of some more fundamental reality (the material universe). Human emotions and imagination are even higher level phenomena. They seem important to us because we're strongly aware of them, but they're only based on the physical world we and our ancestors experienced.

Quote:

think that so far the Humanities (literature) expresses those hints better than Physics, but physics is getting

If by 'better' you mean in a way that feels nicer to humans, then sure. But humanities can in no way get any closer to fundamental understanding than physics can. The best it can do is placate and fool people. It has a long history of being consistently wildly wrong about nearly everything.

Physics on the other hand is slowly converging on a more and more consistent picture of reality. Literature seems to be diverging - wilder ideas are popping up where in the past things were simpler. Obviously that means it's getting more and more wrong, because it's getting more and more self-contradictory.

Posted by: samwik

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/31/10 05:47 AM

smile I guess it depends on how you define literature....
Sure there's lots of divergence and diversity, but there are increasingly also common themes and patterns to discover.

I think The Golden Rule surpasses anything physics has come up with so far, but I suppose "For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction" comes pretty close to "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

~ smile
Posted by: Ellis

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/31/10 06:48 AM

samwik wrote:
"I think The Golden Rule surpasses anything physics has come up with so far, but I suppose "For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction" comes pretty close to "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.""

Hooray! The Golden rule expressed as a Science Fact!!... Although the notion of 'goodness' is not expressed fully by either.

I feel people here are (or were) trying to equate dark matter with God. Is this justifiable? There are heaps of mysterious things everywhere, many of them grouped together in the 'supernatural junk basket'. Gradually some are being explained. ( If you are an aspiring saint for instance, it is hard to get one of those miracles that require medical recovery as modern medical treatments have cleared up many of the various conditions fairly well!) Maybe one day Dark Matter will be fully understood too.. that is if it is proved to exist. But the present lack of proof does not preclude people from believing in its existence, so in that way it is the same as god, incapable of proof, but in the presence of belief it does not matter. Belief will make it so for the believer.

Neither does it matter if it is 'true'. Truth is always conditional-never absolute. Indeed truth for we humans often exists on a need to know basis, influenced by the conditions of the moment.*

*That was very cynical!! I'll stop now!
Posted by: samwik

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/31/10 09:18 AM

Cynical, but True! wink

...but already specified not talking about the 'god of the gaps' or equating god with the dark 95 percent... but you sound as if science precludes spirituality, or vice versa; but....

Can't the two be seen as different perspectives on ways to understand reality--each based on different definitions, concepts, etc., with each useful in different circumstances or for different intentions--but still meaningful for the purposes of relating to and understanding reality. As with Relativity and Truth, the perspective makes a difference to understanding the reality.

And sometimes science is too specialized to see the big, humane picture--and sometimes religion is too generalized to see the reality on the ground--so they each seem to have value in complementing each other. There isn't a problem with contradictions, is there?

~ Cheers!
Posted by: kallog

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/31/10 10:57 AM

Originally Posted By: Ellis
samwik wrote:
come up with so far, but I suppose "For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction" comes pretty close to "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.""

That's just a crude analogy. It's got no meaning on Mars, or among plants.


Quote:

preclude people from believing in its existence, so in that way it is the same as god, incapable of proof, but in the presence of belief it does not matter. Belief will make it so for the believer.

There's some evidence for the existence of dark matter. There's no evidence for the existence of God. So they're totally different. Perhaps you could say dark matter is like a primitive tribe's fire god living in the volcano. Sure there's something there causing the hot rocks to come out and they don't know what it is. But they go further than science and arbitrarily assign human-like attributes to it. That's when it becomes religous and impedes further understanding of nature.
Posted by: kallog

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/31/10 11:07 AM

Originally Posted By: samwik

Can't the two be seen as different perspectives on ways to understand reality--each based on different definitions,


Religion is a way to obscure reality. But it does provide a tool for understanding human psychology. I don't mean by believers, but by psychologists studying religious behavior.

Quote:

And sometimes science is too specialized to see the big, humane picture--and sometimes religion is too generalized to see the reality on the ground--so they each seem to have value in complementing each other. There isn't a problem with contradictions, is there?


The humane picture is small. There's only a few billion humans in the universe, and all crammed into one planet. That's the narrow domain of religion. Science covers a much wider scope and has produced some big pictures encompassing humans as well as plants, rocks, stars, dark matter, space, etc.
Posted by: Ellis

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 08/01/10 02:06 AM

Kallog wrote:
There's some evidence for the existence of dark matter. There's no evidence for the existence of God. So they're totally different.

In my opinion they are not TOTALLY different, in that neither are proven facts ... but, however, some people believe in the existence of one or the other (perhaps both!) There are many people who believe that they have proof of the existence of god- or of the supernatural and there are others who are sure that dark matter exists. The similarity between the two groups is their belief in the existence of one or the other, and at the moment neither of those groups can prove that this belief has a basis in fact. Belief is the key. Many of us believe something and we assume either that everyone believes the same way, or else that they should! Uncertainty seems to be something that upsets us.

Personally I believe that dark matter has a chance of being proven to exist, but as I do not believe in the existence of any form of god I personally do not think that his/her/its existence will ever be proved.

And on the point of the insignificance of humanity.... our discoveries are all we have to work with. Our science and our religion, as well as our art and our literature are all we have. Our culture is our own human construction and we see the vastness of space and the cosmos through our own human eyes and interpret the information with our own limited human intellects. So far there has been no Star Trek style higher intellect to help us... we seem to be on our own! And that is a very sobering thought indeed!
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 08/01/10 03:55 AM

Ellis, existence--in all its forms--does not exist; it simply IS!

a growing number of people are beginning to realize: Totality--self-evident existence--and GOD are one and the same. Do you reject existence?

Now smarten up! If you refuse to pay your dues, we will cancel your membership!!!! smile laugh
Posted by: kallog

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 08/01/10 06:12 AM

Originally Posted By: Ellis

In my opinion they are not TOTALLY different, in that neither are proven facts


Then you have to lump them both in the same basket as the claims that the Earth is round, and that there are flying monkeys on the moon. Perhaps what you mean is they're both ideas that some people have about reality. That's such a broad category that it's nearly useless. You might as well rank ideas according to the letter of the alphabet their names start with.

A more useful distinction is whether they comply with scientific principles or not. Which claims are falsifiable? Which ones are the simplest explanation that fits observations? Which ones are based on information that can be verified by others?

This is what makes science different from religion. It's nothing to do with being right or wrong.


Quote:

same way, or else that they should! Uncertainty seems to be something that upsets us.

Uncertainty upsets religious people. Scientific people accept that it's inevitable so they don't believe in those things, just tentatively accept their possibility when evidence suggests they exist.


Quote:

discoveries are all we have to work with. Our science and our religion, as well as our art and our literature are all

There's still a fundamental difference between science and those other fields.

Science takes information from the outside world and forms an imaginary model of reality to fit that information.

Religion and art take information from their audience's existing ways of thinking and create imaginary realities to fit those ways of thinking.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 08/01/10 09:24 PM

Kallog: Let's appreciate the points we are all making. I trust it will help all of us communicate, better. Agreed? smile

Friends at SAGGO:

Beginning tomorrow, August 2, I will be visiting Newfoundland. I will be flying to and visiting (August 2-16) St. John's, NL, Mount Pearl and area,
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=St.+John's,+NL&oe=utf-8&rls=com.mandriva:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=St+John's,+NL&gl=ca&ei=Ta5VTOWeMcP58AbJtoi5BA&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CCAQ8gEwAA

including, bellisland.net where I was born.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4435482937916771266#

http://www.bellisland.net

========================
Meanwhile, lots of fulminating is going on at:

http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?msg=44735.228&webtag=ab-atheism

Anyone! You are welcome to join the tag-team-wrestling match at the site above, while I do my best to spread the word, in Canada (Our Community), east, about holism (somatology, psychology and pneumatology--body, mind and spirit--working as one) and holistic economics: http:///www.UFANA.org

Believe it, or not: Interest-free, but not dividend-free, banking is a Judaeo-Christian idea. Our friends in Islam (which means, accept what is, for the reality it is!) did not come along until after 622 years after the birth of Jesus--a Jew.

Interestingly, the mother of the closest relatives of my wife and me--our three grandchildren--is Farah, a Muslim. Our son, Turner, met her at York University, when he was a music student. She was studying maths. For years now, he (now 51) has been a pro in the Toronto music scene.

Farah is a beautiful person--in body, mind and spirit. Also, she is a Sufi (a meditative) Muslim, from Tehran, Iran. Her family escaped from Iran when, sadly, the fanatics took over. We metapray that things will improve.
Posted by: kallog

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 08/01/10 11:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Kallog: Let's appreciate the points we are all making. I trust it will help all of us communicate, better. Agreed? smile

Aren't I?

Anyway, have good trip, or welcome back if there's no internet on that island :P
Posted by: Ellis

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 08/02/10 12:30 AM

Kallog-- Would you define 'an imaginary model of reality' and explain how that imagination is different from the imagination that underlies the search for answers that fuels religious and artistic thought please?

There is nothing 'special' about the creative 'scientific' thought. The original impetus to go to the moon owes as much to romantic yearning as it does to hard science.... actually perhaps more, for example the yearning for space, for flight, for exploration that powers scientific discovery is based on altruism as well as fact. It's only much later that research grants become more important than ideas as motivation.

Similarly religious thought is motivated by the need for knowledge. Why do we exist (or as Rev would say-- why ARE we)? Where did it start? Is there a maker..or not etc; These are all creative exploratory thoughts and many people believe that that answers will be discovered one day as scientific facts. I just see a similarity in both groups.

And not only the religious believers are rattled by uncertainty, it unsettles and motivates many scientists too.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 08/25/10 04:38 AM

Kallog: Somehow you're associating God with good.

Why not, Kallog! My World Book Dictionary points out that our word 'goodbye' is a contraction of "God be with you."


Kallog: There's not many religions with good gods!

GOD is not a thing to be possessed; it is Being, or Existence to be experienced.


Kallog: Why not just call it "us collectively"? Otherwise there's no point having the word god because it's got too many meanings and nobody will understand each other.

IMO, there is little, if any, misunderstanding about that which is Good, Orderly and Desirable.

BTW, is it possible for anyone with a healthy mind to deny the reality of being, or existence?
Posted by: kallog

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 08/29/10 08:58 AM

What's reality, being and existance got to do with a good god?

I think your ideas have merged into something so dilute they have no more meaning than common sense. You could just take God out of the equation and everything else would remain the same.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 11/21/10 11:46 PM

THE LATEST VIDEO FROM FREEDOM COVE--Philosophy, Science and Art can produce the following:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDqbfiejLdM

Tourists Interested is a Visit to FREEDOM COVE, Tofino, BC? It need not be all that expensive.
Posted by: Bill S.

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 11/22/10 02:49 PM

Since this thread has been resuscitated, I'll slip one question in.

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
BTW, is it possible for anyone with a healthy mind to deny the reality of being, or existence?


Would you consider solipsism to be a sign of an unhealthy mind, or just a slightly off-track interpretation of infinite reality?
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 11/22/10 04:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Bill S.
Since this thread has been resuscitated, I'll slip one question in....

Would you consider solipsism to be a sign of an unhealthy mind, or just a slightly off-track interpretation of infinite reality?
Interesting question. Keeping all our options open--something I always try to do--we need to talk about it.

Perhaps, like the denial of infinite reality or existence, it is a mild form of insanity. I think that solipsism--the theory that the self is the only object of real knowledge; that nothing but self exists--is more of a pneumatological (self-image psychology) problem than a psychological one.

Now, please remind me of your theological position and answer and/or discuss my question:

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
BTW, is it possible for anyone with a healthy mind to deny the reality of being, or existence?
Posted by: Bill S.

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 11/22/10 06:36 PM

Quote:
Now, please remind me of your theological position and answer and/or discuss my question:

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
BTW, is it possible for anyone with a healthy mind to deny the reality of being, or existence?


I am not avoiding your question about my theological position, but it would take time to do it justice, and other needs are currently pressing.

It is difficult to imagine how anyone with a "healthy mind" could seriously deny the reality of being, or existence, since the person doing the denying would exist. Furthermore, after many years of work with people with mental health problems, I can say that I never met anyone with such problems who actually denied existence. Plenty whose ideas of reality differed from those of most of us; but that raises the question as to whose reality is the more valid. Is it a case of majority vote?
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 11/22/10 07:06 PM

Originally Posted By: kallog
What's reality, being and existance got to do with a good god?
You miss my point, completely.

Ever since I matured theologically--and that was decades ago--I have stopped thinking of "a" god, or "the" god, as if "he" is a male and a supernatural being, like a supreme Santa, one who takes up space and time within being and reality. GOD, for me encompasses total reality, which, using astronomy, astrophysics and all the sciences we are just beginning to explore.

BTW, even most theists--certainly not the sophisticated ones--who speak and write about God, do not think of him as a limited and human-like being, or one who looks like us.

One problem we have in theology is this: We keep using the kind of English that makes it appear that God is a person like us--one with all our bodily trappings. Such a 'god' is such an easy target for atheists.

As a unitheist, when I write the divine name I do not use 'god'or 'God', unless I am quoting someone. I make it clear what I am thinking, by the way I write it. I use two acronyms: G0D and/or GOD. Sometimes I will use both.

When I speak I always make it clear that I am not talking about 'a' god who is 'a' being. GOD/G0D is Being!

You say,"I think your ideas have merged into something so dilute they have no more meaning than common sense."


You are welcome to your opinion, as am I to mine. The only problem I have with common sense is this: ironically, it is not commonly used by many people. laugh

You say, "You (we) could just take God out of the equation and everything else would remain the same."


Yes, if you are you an atheist, you probably do so. So, practically speaking, do many theists, simply because they think of a human-like god they prefer avoid. And I do not blame anyone for making this mistake. All atheists and probably most theists have in mind a Richard Dawkins' definition of 'god' as a supernatural being (See page 31 of his book The GOD Delusion).

As a unitheist, I think of Divine Being as that which encompasses all that IS--from 0 to infinity.

G0D is like the 0 in mathematics. Does G0D-like common sense--the useful kind, that is--tell us that 0 makes no difference to mathematics and its use in calculating the nature and function of reality is of no value.

Similarly, I like to use the acronym GOD. Here, the O is the symbol of infinity and eternity. Again, using GOD-like common sense, would anyone say that O has nothing to do with reality or existence?

Nietzsche--the son of a Lutheran minister--was one of the first modern philosophers to write "God is dead". If he were a member of this forum, today, here is what I would tell him:

With due respect sir, the 'God' you write about never really lived. What is dead is the old theology and the old dying religions that came out of it. Let us give it a decent funeral. Then we can move on to a New Theology, one which sees GOD as spirit-based agape-love sown like a seed (G0D) in hearts of all people willing to have it there and to live by that which is Good, Orderly and Desirable and in moral and ethical service of each other.


Posted by: kallog

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 11/23/10 01:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Originally Posted By: kallog
What's reality, being and existance got to do with a good god?
You miss my point, completely.

Ever since I matured theologically--and that was decades ago--I have stopped thinking of "a" god, or "the" god, as
if "he" is a male and a supernatural being, like a supreme


Hello again. I can't quite remember what we were talking about but what you say reminds me of how I used to think of God. Everywhere all the time. Of course the 'he' part is just a convenience, perhaps because it's usually rude to use 'it'.

I still don't see the point in your everywhere GOD. Why have it? Why is it connected with people any more than it's connected with rocks and atoms?

Have another go explaining please
Posted by: Bill S.

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 11/23/10 02:26 PM

Hi, kallog, have you been on holiday?

Quote:
I still don't see the point in your everywhere GOD. Why have it? Why is it connected with people any more than it's connected with rocks and atoms?


Not trying to answer for Rev, but, surely, the whole point of the GOD concept he seems to espouse is that it is connected with everything; people, rocks, atoms and the lot. Perhaps the stumbling block is the use of "GOD". If I recall correctly you once suggested that I use "ugbugu" instead of infinity, to avoid confusing people who had preconceptions about the meaning of infinity. We could be looking at another "ugbugu" situation here.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 11/24/10 05:46 PM

kallog and Bill: Thanks for the invitation to have a dialogue, Kallog (poetic, eh?). And Bill, thanks for your comment. You got it! IMO, "G0D" is in the ITS, including atoms and atomic particles. I have no problem saying that "GOD" is IT--immediate and transcendent truth in all that is, including us. I will be saying more on this.

Meanwhile, it would be nice to know, theologically speaking, your story--agnostic/atheist/theist? whatever. If you prefer not to put it in your public profile, feel free to send me an e-mail. My e-mail is lindsaykin@gmail.com note that the 'g' is in the mail. smile my URL is www.lindsayking.ca

BTW, IMHO, the LHC will not find a god-particle. I would not be surprised if does find that at the core of all matter is ELOHIM--the Hebrew (see Genesis 1:1) for all the energy and power that one can imagine, and more. I call this energy and power G0D (at microcosmic level, the quantum level) and GOD (at the macro-cosmic level)

Posted by: Bill S.

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 11/25/10 03:20 PM

Of course, just to confuse the issue, or explain things better, Elohim is plural. Perhaps this marks the transition from polytheism to monotheism. Which, it seems, they may have picked from Amenhotep IV (I think it was IV)while they were in Egypt.

What goes around, comes around. :P
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 11/25/10 09:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Bill S.
Of course, just to confuse the issue, or explain things better, Elohim is plural.
Bill, the Hebrew alphabet has no capitals. Therefore, to create proper nouns Hebrew writers use a special type of Hebrew called "majestic plurals".

"... why does Elohim have a plural suffix if it is numerically singular with a singular verb and singular adjective? It turns out there is a special type of plural in Hebrew that has a plural suffix even though it is numerically singular with a singular verb and singular adjective. These nouns are called majestic plurals. The meaning of the plural suffix in the majestic plural is not that there is more than one of the noun, but that the noun is "great, absolute, or majestic".

http://www.israelofgod.org/elohim1.htm
=======================================
BTW, I can accept that there are no archaeological proofs that the Bible stories in the book of Exodus, and in other books of the Bible, are historically true. At the same time, like in many historical novels, I can accept that there are basic truths--life-lessons, so to speak--which can help us understand who we are, why we believe what we do believe and they can help us to be better people.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 12/25/10 11:55 PM

Good point, Samwik, and thanks Rev too. Kalog I can see where you are coming from. I haven't been on here for some time but it's great to see my theory being discussed and questioned.
My ideas are all supposition of course, one thing I am fairly sure of is Threadism - the connection of all things - especially strong in the same (generic) group ie flock of birds, colony of ants or bees.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 12/26/10 12:11 AM

Thanks Samwik, good point, and thanks too, Rev. Kallog I can see where you are coming from. I haven't been on here for some time and my ideas are all supposition of course, so it's great to see my theory being discussed and questioned.
Posted by: Bill S.

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 12/26/10 05:05 PM

Although I contributed a brief post a while ago, I have only just read the OP.

I would like to add a couple of comments.

Quote:
The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.


The concept of the infinite cosmos leads to the same view of the universe, but without the spiritual implication of "pantheism". I am not saying it is necessarily atheistic, but it doesn't risk the introduction of "denominational" gods, and comments such as Kallog's understandable: "That's not the Christian God as I understand it. With him you have to love him unconditionally, but he's allowed to throw you in a lake of fire if the conditions permit."

Quote:
For the Whole there is no time but IS.


This, too, ties in with the infinite cosmos, but -

Quote:
The Whole is evolving.


In infinity there can be no evolution, any apparent evolution must be only in our F of R.

BTW, I think the 5% must be an integral part of the whole as well, and every "part" must be the whole.
Posted by: Smitht

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 12/27/10 10:08 AM

Originally Posted By: Kyra M
Hi Ellis re: my use of the word, God, just a quick quote from Jaron Lanier : God is the most powerful symbol we have created. The Spaniards in the New World built their churches on the holy sites of those they vanquished. Notre Dame sits on a Druid holy site. Shall we use the God word? It is our choice. Mine is a tentative "yes". I want God to mean the vast ceaseless creativity of the only universe we know of, ours. What do we gain by using the God word? I suspect a great deal, remove duplicates for the word carries with it awe and reverence. If we can transfer that awe and reverence, not to the transcendental Abrahamic God of my Israelite tribe long ago, but to the stunning reality that confronts us, we will grant permission for a renewed spirituality, and awe, reverence and responsibility for all that lives, for the planet.



Life Is Just Nature Just Enjoy!!!
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 12/27/10 03:57 PM

The good news, from panentheists/unitheists, is: The Whole and GOD are one and same. Please, do not confuse pantheism with panentheism.

You and I, including every particle and quantum, which make up who we are, is part of the Whole--which is not complete without ALL IT's parts. In short: The Whole is IT--imminent and transcendent Being.

Choose to be part of the Whole and have a HAPPY NEWS YEAR!
Posted by: Bill S.

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 12/27/10 04:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Rev
Please, do not confuse pantheism with panentheism.


You had me wondering for a moment, but I checked, and Kyra did say "Pantheism".
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 12/27/10 11:50 PM

Bill, this prompts me to ask Kyra:
Kyra, have you ever given us a brief definition of "whole-threadism"?

Does it differ from PAN EN THEISM? If so, how?
Posted by: Bill S.

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 12/28/10 06:32 PM

Quote:
Does it differ from PAN EN THEISM? If so, how?


Also, how does it differ from the concept of an infinite cosmos?
Posted by: Bill S.

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 12/28/10 07:08 PM

I think it was Michael Talbot "The Holographic Universe" who said "every part of the Universe is, in a very real sense, the whole Universe, “….and I am that”." This is as close as I have come to finding something, in someone else's writing, that expresses the idea behind the infinite cosmos.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 12/29/10 10:22 PM

BTW, Bill: Take a look at my new signature www.hypnothoughts.com/profile/RevLindsayGKing I am now in a serious forum about hypnosis. I have been a serious student of the phenomenon since the 1950's. This prompts me to ask:

IS HYPNOSIS A SCIENTIFIC PHENOMENON?
===================================
I hope you won't think that I am nuts for saying this, but, in my opinion, understanding the nature and function of the hypnosis phenomenon could be our key to understanding why some people are geniuses.

Apropos to this thread, it could lead us to understanding the idea behind the infinite cosmos. This leads me to say: geniuses like Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, Einstein, Hawking, and others like them, simply had, or have the natural ability to go in and out of the trance state.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 02/02/11 01:49 AM

Hi Bill and Rev, sorry it has taken me some time to reply, but as I have said before I don't visit this site often.

Pantheism and Panentheism are different in so much as Pantheism believes that God is the Whole, while Panentheism believes God infiltrates the Whole. In this instance I think we have to know what we individually understand as ‘God’. If 'God' is Dark Energy and Dark Matter and this matter is through all the physical matter (estimated to be somewhere in the region of 5 percent of the Whole) then my theory is closer to Panentheism, if however we see 'God' as another entity, an unknown quantity so to speak, as well as the Dark Energy and Dark Matter (and of course physical matter) than we see my theory with leanings to the Pantheist beliefs.
What I believe is the Whole is joined and is everything, and God, which has biblical connotations, does not have to be part of the equation. But everyone should be open to believe what they wish.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 06/19/11 01:41 AM

Member

Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 62



The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Kyra K 2009
Andrea is discussing this with me.

I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.
Probably not. So, when do you want to start?[Remember, you did ask me to help you.)
Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.
Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.
Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.
Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?
Well, what do you think?
It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?
I wish it was.
Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.
Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.
Which is which?
Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.
You say seemingly?
Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy.
We are not aware that we are aware?
Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.
Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?
Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.
Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.
Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.
I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.
I’m listening.
A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.
Death?
After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock.
Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.
That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?
Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.
Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?
I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’
Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.
So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.
And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness.
The awareness of the Universe.
The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.
Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?
Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.
Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?
Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion.
Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.
Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol.
What are the advantages of believing in this?
Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.
And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.
Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.
How so?
Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.
Is all suffering karma then?
No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.
Now, how can I get this straight?
I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.
1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.
2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.
Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole.
But they still would be?
Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.
But you said..?
The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.
We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.
I see, make it/them aware.
Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away.

Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.
Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.

4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.
Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust.

5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.
We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.

6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism.

7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.

8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.
Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?
Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.
And the Light Energy has always known.
Precisely.

NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 06/19/11 06:11 PM

Kyra, when you post, don't be afraid to use HEADLINES this size. Small paragraphs also make long posts easier to read.

BTW, at my age (born Jan, 14, 1930), I think often of the words which William Shakespeare put in the mouth of Hamlet in his great soliloquy on life and death:
TO BE, OR NOT TO BE

...Who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovere'd country, from whose bourn
No traveler returns
, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
=========
You mention the connection between breath and life. My interest in the issue of death and dying, led me, in the early 1960's, to concoct the word "pneumatology"(study of the spirit). It also led me to lecture on the idea--not realizing that the word is already in the literature. Archaically, it was the term for psychology. I introduced 'pneumatology' to Wikipedia.

Pneuma (from which we get pneumatic and pneumonia) is the Greek for air, wind and breath. Our word 'spirit' comes from the Latin translation, spirito.

pneumatos hagiou (Holy, or healthy, Spirit), is another way of saying GOD.

In my opinion having a healthy pneuma is the key to having a successful death--dying without agony, excessive suffering and pain and "the dread of something after death".
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 06/21/11 08:18 AM

Love that Hamlet quote, Rev.
Some religions advocate imagining dying as sort of meditation in preparation for when it happens, so they can go, as you said: "without agony, excessive suffering and pain and "the dread of something after death".
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 06/21/11 05:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Kyra M
Love that Hamlet quote, Rev.
Some religions advocate imagining dying as sort of meditation in preparation for when it happens, so they can go, as you said: "without agony, excessive suffering and pain and "the dread of something after death".
You mention meditation. Our word comes from the Latin meaning to think it over. Isn't this something that all normal human beings do--for good, or evil, purposes--almost on a daily basis?

THE ART OF MEDITATION
Unless one happens to be a robot, a psychopath/sociopath caught in a zombi-like trance, in my sincere opinion (IMSO), meditation is a very human-like and spirit-based art which anyone, including agnostics and atheists, is free to use for good, or evil, purposes at any time.

MEDIATION AND THE ART OF WRITING
For example, Kyra, after I read your post, to which I am responding, then I choose to re-read it meditatively.

As I write these words--pausing now and then--I choose to engage in continued thought, reflection and contemplation. That is, I purposely choose and I intend to think deeply and observe, intently, what I have written.

As long as our intentions are positive, and as long as we we can avoid being so heavenly-minded that we are no earthly good, smile meditation can also be transcendental (anyone take TM?)--that is, idealistic, surpassing, excelling and devoutly religious contemplation, or quiescent spiritual introspection.

Though I respect those who, sincerely are, contemplative and can spend hours, even days, in silent-meditation--it is not my cup-of-T, at this point. I prefer to take an abbreviated form of the process, for which--I hope you don't mind--I have concocted a new word, metatation--meta, mean between, among, reciprocal, behind, after, beyond and with + tation. Tation is from the French, tete, for head.

In other words, use your head and have a rational faith, not a blind one. But, walking thoughtfully in the light you have, don't be afraid to go beyond your head space. A healthy faith, or religion, is one that can go beyond reason, but it need never go contrary to it. With this attitude there need be no conflict between religious faith and the principles of science.

SO META-TATION COMBINES BATHING, EXERCISING AND MEDITATING
The whole process can be done, comfortably, in 21 minutes:

I start by doing three minutes of yoga based on:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Tibetan_Rites
Text, with pictures:
https://www.storesonlinepro.com/files/2012855/uploaded/Five%20Tibetan%20Rites.pdf

I find that, except for Step # 1--the spins and the stretch-like moves--several of the moves can be done as part of the bathing process. BA & TH--As I wash I simply say to myself: I choose to Be Aware & Think Holistically.

Those who like the devout "religious" approach to prayer and meditation feel free to say, I take a BATH--that is, I am Born Again & I Think Holiness. In the spirit of agape-love, add any prayers you wish.

BTW, The Greek 'baptizo' simply means to wash.

Thus, I find that it is possible to combine my morning ablutions--ab-away + lavere to wash--and wash my body, mind and the spirit at the same time.

Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 06/21/11 09:07 PM

Posted on: 11/08/2010 18:18

THE PRIMARY COLOURS--BLUE, YELLOW AND RED:
BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

It was in the late 1960's that I first began to use the primary colours as the kind of basic symbols anyone can use to practice what what I now call meta-tation.

Practicing the art of META-TATION, every morning--sometimes more than once a day--I META-TATE and focus on the primary colours--BLUE, YELLOW and RED--which I have in a painting.

BLUE (Spirit)--the colour of the infinite SKY--reminds me to think of the Spirit--that which is infinite and the eternal. It reminds me to say: I AM, therefore I have the power to will and to choose to think, know and do.

YELLOW (Mind)--The colour of the sun, moon, planets, stars and galaxies remind me that I have the power to think, to learn, to know and to understand all that I need to know to get things done.

RED (Body)--reminds me that I have access to all the power--physically, mentally and spiritually--I need to get done all that needs to get done. I am led to the people I need and to the people who need me; to the things that need to choose, know about, get done and enjoy doing.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/01/11 01:58 AM

A colour acronym for meditation, or as you so aptly call it Meta-tation. Great idea, Rev!
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/03/11 02:06 PM

The recent rhyme I wrote fits the tune, The Happy Wanderer, which can be used to sing the 23rd Psalm:THE POWER OF

BLUE, GOLDEN YELLOW AND RED

===========================


I am at one with clear blue skies.

And golden yellow sun;

Earth's iron-red blood flows through my veins,

The source of life and fun.

LGK
2011
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/04/11 02:01 AM

Good one, Rev.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/10/11 08:12 AM



The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Kyra K 2009
Andrea is discussing this with me.

I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.
Probably not. So, when do you want to start?[Remember, you did ask me to help you.)
Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.
Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.
Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.
Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?
Well, what do you think?
It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?
I wish it was.
Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.
Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.
Which is which?
Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.
You say seemingly?
Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy.
We are not aware that we are aware?
Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.
Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?
Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.
Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.
Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.
I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.
I’m listening.
A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.
Death?
After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock.
Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.
That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?
Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.
Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?
I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’
Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.
So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.
And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness.
The awareness of the Universe.
The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.
Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?
Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.
Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?
Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion.
Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.
Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol.
What are the advantages of believing in this?
Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.
And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.
Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.
How so?
Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.
Is all suffering karma then?
No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.
Now, how can I get this straight?
I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.
1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.
2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.
Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole.
But they still would be?
Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.
But you said..?
The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.
We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.
I see, make it/them aware.
Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away.

Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.
Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.

4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.
Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust.

5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.
We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.

6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism.

7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.

8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.
Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?
Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.
And the Light Energy has always known.
Precisely.

NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/16/11 02:13 AM

Member

Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 70



The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Kyra K 2009
Andrea is discussing this with me.

I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.
Probably not. So, when do you want to start?[Remember, you did ask me to help you.)
Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.
Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.
Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.
Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?
Well, what do you think?
It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?
I wish it was.
Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.
Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.
Which is which?
Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.
You say seemingly?
Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy.
We are not aware that we are aware?
Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.
Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?
Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.
Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.
Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.
I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.
I’m listening.
A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.
Death?
After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock.
Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.
That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?
Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.
Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?
I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’
Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.
So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.
And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness.
The awareness of the Universe.
The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.
Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?
Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.
Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?
Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion.
Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.
Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol.
What are the advantages of believing in this?
Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.
And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.
Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.
How so?
Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.
Is all suffering karma then?
No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.
Now, how can I get this straight?
I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.
1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.
2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.
Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole.
But they still would be?
Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.
But you said..?
The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.
We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.
I see, make it/them aware.
Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away.

Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.
Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.

4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.
Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust.

5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.
We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.

6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism.

7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.

8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.
Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?
Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.
And the Light Energy has always known.
Precisely.

NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 07/17/11 04:54 AM

The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Kyra K 2009
Andrea is discussing this with me.

I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.
Probably not. So, when do you want to start?[Remember, you did ask me to help you.)
Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.
Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.
Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.
Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?
Well, what do you think?
It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?
I wish it was.
Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.
Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.
Which is which?
Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.
You say seemingly?
Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy.
We are not aware that we are aware?
Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.
Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?
Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.
Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.
Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.
I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.
I’m listening.
A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.
Death?
After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock.
Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.
That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?
Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.
Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?
I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’
Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.
So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.
And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness.
The awareness of the Universe.
The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.
Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?
Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.
Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?
Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion.
Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.
Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol.
What are the advantages of believing in this?
Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.
And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.
Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.
How so?
Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.
Is all suffering karma then?
No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.
Now, how can I get this straight?
I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.
1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.
2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.
Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole.
But they still would be?
Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.
But you said..?
The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.
We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.
I see, make it/them aware.
Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away.

Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.
Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.

4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.
Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust.

5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.
We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.

6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism.

7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.

8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.
Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?
Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.
And the Light Energy has always known.
Precisely.

NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 08/04/11 09:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Kyra M
Hi Bill and Rev...If 'God' is Dark Energy and Dark Matter and this matter is through all the physical matter (estimated to be somewhere in the region of 5 percent of the Whole) then my theory is closer to Panentheism ...
Kyra, as I hope you know by now: I think of myself as a panENtheist--G0d is that which is in and through all there is. PanENtheism is totally inclusive. It is impossible for me to think of any particle, no matter how small, that does not have G0d within it. G0d is that which is inside all things.

On the other hand, for me, because GOD, spatially speaking, is infinite, I can only imagine that there is no-thing outside GOD--only the mystery of infinity. In other words, there is nothing larger than GOD--the infinite process of being.

GOD AND TIME
Similarly, thinking of time, GOD is the eternal now. However, using the principle of relativity we can measure time at the local level.

WHY I CALL MYSELF A UNITHEIST
While I respect sincere panentheists I do it to avoid confusing panentheism with pantheism--'god' as the sum of all physical things--I prefer to say: I am a 'unitheist'--'god' is all physical things, plus that which we think of as mental and spiritual reality.

For unitheism 'god' is definitely not a judgmental busybody listening to all our thoughts--the kind of 'god' written about in many parts of the Bible--demanding that, on pain of being sent to the flames of hell, we all become his slaves, kiss his butt and become obedient members of his one "true" church, synagogue, temple, mosque, whatever--and other such nonsense. Much traditional religion is a pack of hypocritical nonsense. And, as minister, I have said as much on more than one occasion.

WHAT DO ATHEISTS THINK OF UNITHEISM?
I have talked to many about this. I find that atheists who want to think of themselves as good people--that is, people who choose to do their best to be moral, ethical and loving human beings--find it very difficult, if not impossible, to reject unitheism.

I have had many an atheist say to me: "Well, if what you say is so, that I do not have to hang up my brains with my hat; that I can ask my questions and hang on to my sincere doubts, then I am not an atheist and I am willing to keep an open mind."

As a newly-ordained and young United Church minister assigned to serve in Labrador, I once baptized--at his personal request--one such an atheist. I met him July, 1953. Then he was the assistant manager of the newly-built Hudson Bay store--the first such store in Happy Valley/Goosebay, Labrador--my first assignment as a minister. My wife (Jean) and I were both 23. No children, yet. Later, we had a daughter and then a son--now in their fifties.

Later, the young atheist became an active member of my church and, to my amazement, went on to become an ordained minster. Interestingly, because he married an Anglican lady, who, at the time, happened to be a member of my church, he went on to become an Anglican minister. Well, how about that!

A lover of the north, the Rev. Hugo Mueller, served his whole ministry in Labrador, north of Newfoundland and Quebec. Quite a story. And now, at 81, I am sure you will understand when I say that I have many other such stories to tell.

Kyra, after you reflect on and maybe respond to the above, later I will comment on:
Quote:
Kyra "... if however we see 'God' as another entity, an unknown quantity so to speak, as well as the Dark Energy and Dark Matter (and of course physical matter) than we see my theory with leanings to the Pantheist beliefs.

What I believe is the Whole is joined and is everything, and God, which has biblical connotations, does not have to be part of the equation. But everyone should be open to believe what they wish."

Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 08/05/11 01:05 PM

Kyra, please clarify what you mean when you say:
Quote:
What I believe is the Whole is joined and is everything, and God, which has biblical connotations, does not have to be part of the equation. But everyone should be open to believe what they wish."
Questions: 1. What is the difference between a 'god' who has biblical connotations and one that does not? 2. When you say, "everyone should be open" what do you mean? Do you mean that everyone should be free to believe what they want to believe?
Me? I take freedom of belief for granted, and I am all for it. I am also free to will, think, imagine and opine. But what about freedom to act? I am not free to break the law of the land, no matter what I believe--that is, unless I am prepared to suffered the consequences--agreed?

ABOUT THE GOALS AND CONSEQUENCES OF BELIEFS
By the way, it is my belief and opinion that my thoughts, imaginings, opinions and beliefs--and certainly the actions which spring from them--have consequences. Some are good, some are not so good and some can be be downright evil.

Therefore, when we say that we believe in 'god' and give a form to that idea we should we also have in mind some idea as to what we expect 'god' to be like and what we expect him--Or is it a her?--to do for and to us. As child, like most children, I grew up with the idea that 'god' was a king, or a lord, or a father-figure who saw and heard everything I did.

THE VALUE OF SKEPTICISM
Looking back, I am glad that I became a skeptic very early in life. As a teenager I almost became and atheist. My skepticism led me away from this, however, and is also what led me to unitheism.

UNITHEISM IS BASED ON DEEDALISM, NOT JUST CREEDALISM
Accepting the idea that creeds that are truly flexible can be useful, unitheism is more about deeds than creeds. As a unitheist I accept the idea that moderate pain and suffering can be useful guides to our finding physical, mental and spiritual peace of mind and well-being.

THE GOAL OF UNITHEISM
I also accept that the goal of unitheism is to help us eliminate unnecessary pain and suffering.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 08/13/11 02:38 AM

The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Kyra K 2009
Andrea is discussing this with me.

I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.
Probably not. So, when do you want to start?[Remember, you did ask me to help you.)
Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.
Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.
Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.
Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?
Well, what do you think?
It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?
I wish it was.
Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.
Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.
Which is which?
Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.
You say seemingly?
Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy.
We are not aware that we are aware?
Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.
Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?
Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.
Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.
Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.
I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.
I’m listening.
A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.
Death?
After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock.
Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.
That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?
Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.
Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?
I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’
Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.
So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.
And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness.
The awareness of the Universe.
The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.
Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?
Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.
Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?
Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion.
Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.
Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol.
What are the advantages of believing in this?
Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.
And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.
Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.
How so?
Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.
Is all suffering karma then?
No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.
Now, how can I get this straight?
I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.
1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.
2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.
Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole.
But they still would be?
Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.
But you said..?
The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.
We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.
I see, make it/them aware.
Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away.

Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.
Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.

4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.
Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust.

5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.
We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.

6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism.

7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.

8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.
Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?
Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.
And the Light Energy has always known.
Precisely.

NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 11/19/11 06:16 AM



The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Kyra K 2009
Andrea is discussing this with me.

I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.
Probably not. So, when do you want to start?[Remember, you did ask me to help you.)
Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.
Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.
Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.
Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?
Well, what do you think?
It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?
I wish it was.
Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.
Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.
Which is which?
Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.
You say seemingly?
Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy.
We are not aware that we are aware?
Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.
Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?
Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.
Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.
Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.
I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.
I’m listening.
A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.
Death?
After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock.
Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.
That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?
Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.
Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?
I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’
Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.
So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.
And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness.
The awareness of the Universe.
The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.
Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?
Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.
Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?
Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion.
Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.
Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol.
What are the advantages of believing in this?
Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.
And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.
Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.
How so?
Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.
Is all suffering karma then?
No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.
Now, how can I get this straight?
I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.
1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.
2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.
Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole.
But they still would be?
Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.
But you said..?
The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.
We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.
I see, make it/them aware.
Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away.

Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.
Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.

4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.
Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust.

5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.
We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.

6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism.

7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.

8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.
Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?
Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.
And the Light Energy has always known.
Precisely.

NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves.




Top

Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 12/21/11 08:04 PM

Holy s*it..10 pages with the same thing repeated over and over again and the conversation going nowhere. That has to be a record!
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 12/23/11 06:25 AM

Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
Holy s*it..10 pages with the same thing repeated over and over again and the conversation going nowhere. That has to be a record!
Ellis and I are delighted at the brevity of this Holy, messy and stinky response!!! laugh
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 12/23/11 06:41 AM

Pleased to accommodate, and also noticing that you are now speaking for Ellis..
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 12/24/11 07:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
Pleased to accommodate, and also noticing that you are now speaking for Ellis...
And another stinky response, but thankfully, brief!
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 12/24/11 08:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Kyra M
...
Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.

Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.
Which is which?...
Kyra, have you checked out PANENTHEISM, not to be confused with pantheism. Do it in Wikipedia, and let us know what you think.

BTW, TT is correct: Short paragraphs and direct language do make for good and "readable prose" for all of us. Agape/goodwill-love--The Love of the Christmas Spirit--to you and all posters.

To atheists: Happy Day-Before-Boxing Day, eh! laugh
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 12/24/11 08:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
Pleased to accommodate, and also noticing that you are now speaking for Ellis...
And another stinky response, but thankfully, brief!
And to the point! wink
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 01/28/12 12:23 AM

The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Kyra K 2009
Andrea is discussing this with me.

I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.
Probably not. So, when do you want to start?[Remember, you did ask me to help you.)
Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.
Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.
Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.
Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?
Well, what do you think?
It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?
I wish it was.
Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.
Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.
Which is which?
Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.
You say seemingly?
Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy.
We are not aware that we are aware?
Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.
Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?
Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.
Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.
Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.
I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.
I’m listening.
A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.
Death?
After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock.
Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.
That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?
Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.
Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?
I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’
Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.
So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.
And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness.
The awareness of the Universe.
The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.
Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?
Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.
Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?
Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion.
Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.
Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol.
What are the advantages of believing in this?
Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.
And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.
Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.
How so?
Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.
Is all suffering karma then?
No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.
Now, how can I get this straight?
I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.
1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.
2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.
Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole.
But they still would be?
Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.
But you said..?
The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.
We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.
I see, make it/them aware.
Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away.

Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.
Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.

4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.
Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust.

5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.
We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.

6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism.

7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.

8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.
Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?
Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.
And the Light Energy has always known.
Precisely.

NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves.
Posted by: redewenur

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 01/28/12 01:03 AM

Kyra, are you aware that you posted the same text in its entirety 2 months ago?
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 01/28/12 01:08 AM

Not wanting to sound like Pollyanna (but I guess I do) I’m hoping one or two readers will get something out of my concepts. A little peace of mind, or a different way of looking at things, perhaps. A good mind is always evolving, always questioning, always unsure. As Bertrand Russell once said, “Fools and fanatics are so sure of themselves, wise men so full of doubt.” He also said, “Many people would sooner die than think; In fact many do so.”
I’m reading AC Grayling’s The Good Book A secular Bible. He’s put together, in biblical type format, all the great teachings, musings and insight of the world’s many philosophers,and great minds, past and present. It’s illuminating reading, and once again I feel a paradigm shift in my thinking.
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 01/28/12 01:57 AM

I think I counted 18 repeated posts of the same thing, and 4 repetitions on two of the pages.

Reminds me of television where they repeat commercials over and over again.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 01/28/12 08:38 PM


TT you have stated a fact. I have given an answer. Peace, K.
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 01/28/12 09:01 PM

Got your answer.
Although the topic is in reference to your repetitious posting, I gather you believe that once, or 4 times in a row, or 18 times in the course of the threads 10 pages is not enough to emphasize what it is that this thread is in reference to.

Finding it necessary to repeat yourself as many times as you do and hoping to get a bite seems a bit desperate.
Just my opinion...

Guess you would expect this type of a response to your style of repetitive posting.

Part of the whole and all.....(some imagine the totality of relative imagined parts as being all there is whistle )
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 01/28/12 10:24 PM

Laughing here - getting a bite from you it seems! Thanks, TT -
Seriously though, got lots of response when I first posted - just putting it back out there now - not expecting replies, just a new reader getting something from it. Also I guess, as an adjunct to my Concept etc, part two.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 01/28/12 11:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Kyra M
Not wanting to sound like Pollyanna (but I guess I do) I’m hoping one or two readers will get something out of my concepts. A little peace of mind, or a different way of looking at things, perhaps.
Kyra M, this is a gentle warning not to set your hopes too high. First, the bad news; then the good news will make us feel better.

You have heard of the tsetse fly. It is a member of a genus of bloodsucking flies in the housefly family. It occurs only in Africa and it can transmit a sleep-causing disease.

HERE IS THE HEADS UP
--------------------
Now, on the Net--and not just on this site--"There is kind of fly", which those who have seen them, say "they looks like a small green turtle with wings." It is called the turtlelike-tutor fly (T-TF).

The goal of the T-TF is to make people who want to use forums to promote good values and read about positive t hings, feel sick rather than feel smile --well and good.

LET'S NOT BLAME THE VICTIMS
Good people, bitten by a T-TF, usually become, helplessly and hopelessly, contrary to what writers like you and me write. No fault of their own--they do not feel very well. Unfortunately, some feel sick Sad!

EXTREME CONTRARINESS
--------------------
Bitten by a T-TF, victims cannot agree on anything, not even among themselves. This includes simple things like the time of the day, or the colour of the sky. They will contradict anything that sounds valuable and positive.

Quotes like the following really drive them crazy:
Originally Posted By: Kyra M
A good mind is always evolving, always questioning, always unsure; “Fools and fanatics are so sure of themselves, wise men so full of doubt.” ... “Many people would sooner die than think; In fact many do so.”(Bertrand Russell)
"You gotta be joking" the TTF's will, over and over, repeat the message: "There is no truth but T-TFism. As geniuses, we have all the answers. Now listen! "

KEEP IN MIND: THE VICTIMS ARE HELPLESS
--------------------------------------
For example, write to victims of T-TFism about you experiencing values like reality, faith, hope, love, unity, at-one-ment, democracy, transparency, idealism, and the like, and they will usually remark, without explaining what they really mean, say that that all such values are tied to superstitions, to dualism and such.

With a very demeaning attitude, one recently said to me: "... you got some work to do" and "The Atonement still eludes you." You conclude
Originally Posted By: Kyra M
I’m reading AC Grayling’s The Good Book A secular Bible. He’s put together, in biblical type format, all the great teachings, musings and insight of the world’s many philosophers,and great minds, past and present. It’s illuminating reading, and once again I feel a paradigm shift in my thinking.
Kyra M, the victim of T-TF will likely respond to you with something like he responded to me: "Based on your push to advertise it as an ism rather than ..."

IS THERE GOOD NEWS?
--------------
There is! Simply begin as follows: Be cool and know we can have good fun, NOW! laugh
....
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 01/29/12 12:43 AM

Oh Rev, that is priceless. So true - I've had another good laugh today. Thanks. :- )
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 01/29/12 12:55 AM

Oh reverend... smile
When there is At-ONE-ment how can there seriously be any victims?

People create their own realities.

Without the living, breathing experience of the ONE within all thoughts feeling and actions, one feels they are victims to the world outside of themselves, and yet, it is just their personal identification with that which they see as separate from the Self, due to the personal idolization of what they believe God/perfection to look like.

The body is an extension of the mind...., and the world.., an extension of the body..

All you experience is created by you... well your consciousness...
The ego which is conditioned thru beliefs and isms, filters what is created into dualistic perceptions of belief. There is nothing other than your Self..The One consciousness.
When you take up arms against the world outside of you, you take up arms against your own creative impulses thru the illusions of separation from your Self.
Helplessness (an illusion based on fear) is simply ignorance of reality and the connection to ones own Consciously created reflections of thought based on beliefs or experience.

Preachers who speak of the Good, and conversely look for evil, find evil in and amongst the determined personal identifications of good and evil.(The duality of the ego)

The Good news is... It's all good and it's all God.

That is Unity, (not necessarily Unitheism).
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 03/17/12 06:17 AM

There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.
Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole.

Andrea:But they still would be?

Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.
Andrea:

But you said..?

The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.
We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.

Andrea:I see, make it/them aware.

Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away.
Posted by: Bill S.

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 03/17/12 05:56 PM

I've just come from the "Philosophy of Religions--all religions" thread.

Is there an echo in here?
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 09/06/12 03:28 AM

Must be lol!
Posted by: Orac

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 09/06/12 04:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Bill S.
I've just come from the "Philosophy of Religions--all religions" thread.

Is there an echo in here?


I was going for the concept of a "hole" one big enough to put you and your infinity argument in :-)
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 09/06/12 05:18 AM

Bet the Rev. Makes some comment toward civility.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 09/06/12 05:18 AM

Originally Posted By: Kyra M
There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole....
Kyra, thanks for your comment about the value of being positive and altruistic.

Interestingly, I just finished spending much of the evening listening to the news of what is happening at the convention to nominate the next president of the USA. http://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2012/?hpt=hp_c2

LOTS OF INTERESTING AND POSITIVE COMMENTS
In his nomination speech for Barak Obamma, former president, Bill Clinton spoke for 48 minutes. In it he summed up his feeling about the difference between the Republicans and the Democrats. Here is one of his comments: "The Republicans tell Americans: Fellow Americans, you are on your own...; the messages from the Democrats is: Fellow Americans, we are in it, together ... We are here to solve our problems by being constructive and cooperative with one another."
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 09/06/12 05:36 AM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Kyra, thanks for your comment about the value of being positive and altruistic.

I must be psychic
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Interestingly, I just finished spending much of the evening listening to the news of what is happening at the convention to nominate the next president of the USA. http://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2012/?hpt=hp_c2

LOTS OF INTERESTING AND POSITIVE COMMENTS
In his nomination speech for Barak Obamma, former president, Bill Clinton spoke for 48 minutes. In it he summed up his feeling about the difference between the Republicans and the Democrats. Here is one of his comments: "The Republicans tell Americans: Fellow Americans, you are on your own...; the messages from the Democrats is: Fellow Americans, we are in it, together ... We are here to solve our problems by being constructive and cooperative with one another."
And you bought it?

Idealism goes along way. That and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee.

Kinda like the Christians being throw to the lions. I'm sure they were positive God would take care of them. Maybe so but they were ripped to shreds anyway.
So obviously God had a plan that was other than the human ideal. Seems to perpetuate itself even in politics. Regardless of who claims the best image, neither of them shine on after the elections when someone decides to complain about what they don't like.
Even if you decide to be positive about lining up at the food bank, (that at least your eating) all memories of having a home to live in and having lost it to the ripple effect of a government that spends more money protecting oil interests than preserving industry on it's own soil and feeding its hungry, kinda outweighs the positive aspects of Government advertising the idea of "We being in this together."
Government Politicians like Senators and Presidents don't live under the same rules that they push onto the voters that put them into office. We really don't have a government that is for or OF the people, who are in this country. Unless you are one of those special interest idealists, with an agenda.

Right Rev? Even you have a history of taking a situation and pointing fingers at what you don't accept as part of the G~O~D (Good orderly and desirable). Obviously you don't see G~O~D in everything and everything as part of the whole.
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 09/06/12 05:41 AM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/05..._n_1857814.html

Something positive for the hungry in America to focus on.

This is what matters
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 09/06/12 03:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking


LOTS OF INTERESTING AND POSITIVE COMMENTS
In his nomination speech for Barak Obamma, former president, Bill Clinton spoke for 48 minutes. In it he summed up his feeling about the difference between the Republicans and the Democrats. Here is one of his comments: "The Republicans tell Americans: Fellow Americans, you are on your own...; the messages from the Democrats is: Fellow Americans, we are in it, together ... We are here to solve our problems by being constructive and cooperative with one another."


From the Associated Press:
THE FACTS: From Clinton's speech, voters would have no idea that the inflexibility of both parties is to blame for much of the gridlock. Right from the beginning Obama brought in as his first chief of staff Rahm Emmanuel, a man known for his getting his way, not for getting along.

One of the more high-profile examples of a deal that fell apart was the outline of a proposed "grand bargain" budget agreement between Obama and House Speaker John Boehner in 2011.

The deal would have required compromise from both sides. It slashed domestic spending more than most Democrats wanted and would have raised some taxes, which most Republicans oppose.

Boehner couldn't sell the plan to tea party factions in the House or to other conservative activists. And Obama found himself accused of going too far by some Democratic leaders. The deal died before it ever even came up for a vote.

In another instance, Obama appointed a bipartisan group, known as the Simpsons-Bowles Commission, to recommend ways to fix major fiscal problems like Social Security and Medicare. The commission issued its recommendations but fell three votes short of formally endorsing them. And Obama mostly walked away from the report. He later incorporated some of the less contentious proposals from the report into legislation he supported.

But that ensured the tough compromises would not get made.

The problem with compromising in Washington is that there are few true moderates left in either party. The notion that Republicans are the only ones standing in the way of compromise is inaccurate.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 09/06/12 04:51 PM

ABOUT THE FINANCIAL CRISIS OF 2008--the effects of which, including the envy and fear you mention, are still with us
Kyra, take a look of some of the things I wrote at the time. Also, I ask, are you, or anyone, in touch with any--experts or amateurs--with an interest in economics?


Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 09/07/12 05:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
ABOUT including the envy and fear you mention, are still with us
Regarding envy and fear.... wink
Kris Jenner Feels Threatened By Honey Boo Boo
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 10/19/12 11:46 PM

Hi Rev,
Sorry I haven't replied sooner. I only visit here occasionally. In answer to your question, no, I'm not in touch with anyone into economics.
BTW I've been doing your colour relaxing technique. It really does work and it's fascinating to visualize the colours, often more vibrant than reality : - )
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 10/20/12 07:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Kyra M
Hi Rev,...
BTW I've been doing your colour relaxing technique. It really does work and it's fascinating to visualize the colours, often more vibrant than reality : - )
Now that is a G~0~d-like piece of information, thanks. In all this, I think of myself, not as an expert, a know it all, but as a student.

ABOUT THE ART OF MINDFULNESS--and the ARISING NEW CONSCIOUSNESS
In my classes on pneumatology, I first started using the primary-colours approach, as part of what I call META-tation, in the mid-1960's. I still use it with people who phone me or who come to see me for help.

GETTING OUT OF MIND/BODY EGO TRAPS
I find it a very effective way to help myself and others get in the NOW--the way out of being stuck in the past (regrets) and/or the future (fears)--both time-based illusions--heavy burdens we need not bear.

BTW, Kyra, take note of the series of threads which I started recently. Feel free to join the dialogue and add some of your ideas.

Also, take note of the the long-running thread, which was started by my son, Turner--Philosophy of Religion, all religions...--That was on his 'puter in February, 2007. I am using this thread as a launching pad for the series I refered to above.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 10/24/12 10:10 PM

Quote:
BROWSING THE THREADS OF SCIENCE-A-GOGO
Kyra, thanks to browsing SAGG I just came across the following information: It is found on the pages of an interestesting and relatively-young university at Melbourne, Australia.

One of the special topics on which it focusses is modern astronomy--of deep interest to all of us who have so many questions, like for starters:

What is the cosmos?
Did it, or did it not have a beginning?
What can we learn from reading about modern astronomy, especially astrophysics?

It would be interesting to know what the author of Genesis had in mind when he/she wrote: "In the beginning God created..."

Just take look at the following:

http://www.swinburne.edu.au/

http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/cosmos/

http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/cosmos/V/Vacuum
=============================================
With respect for all honestly-held opinions, as a unitheist here is my opinion: I am not a creationist. However, I have the feeling that, in the NOW, each of us has the potential to be the creators of much good, or much evil. The choice is ours.

Nor do I--an amateur who simply loves to learn the best that science has to offer--make any claim to being an expert.


Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 12/19/12 06:15 AM

Hi Rev,

As usual I haven't looked on here for while, so sorry for the late response. In a bit of synchronicity I was just talking with my husband about the cosmos, the other evening, after we had watched a Stephen Hawking special. I said that I thought space was a vacuum a 'nothingness' and therefore didn't need a creator as such. So I was very interested to read about vacuums on the last link you sent me. Thanks for that!
Have a great Christmas and a wonderful new year.
Hugs and best, Myra.
Posted by: Kyra M

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 06/17/14 02:42 AM

The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Kyra K 2009
Andrea is discussing this with me.

NB: Very interesting comments re dark Matter and Dark energy on cardiologist Pim Van Lommel's YouTube post written in May 2013

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glKccJ5YUcg

I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.
Probably not. So, when do you want to start?[Remember, you did ask me to help you.)
Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.
Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.
Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.
Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?
Well, what do you think?
It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?
I wish it was.
Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.
Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.
Which is which?
Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.
You say seemingly?
Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy.
We are not aware that we are aware?
Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.
Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?
Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.
Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.
Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.
I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.
I’m listening.
A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.
Death?
After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock.
Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.
That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?
Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.
Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?
I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’
Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.
So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.
And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness.
The awareness of the Universe.
The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.
Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?
Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.
Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?
Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion.
Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.
Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol.
What are the advantages of believing in this?
Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.
And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.
Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.
How so?
Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.
Is all suffering karma then?
No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.
Now, how can I get this straight?
I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.
1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.
2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.
Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole.
But they still would be?
Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.
But you said..?
The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.
We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.
I see, make it/them aware.
Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away.

Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.
Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.

4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.
Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust.

5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.
We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.

6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism.

7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.

8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.
Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?
Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.
And the Light Energy has always known.
Precisely.

NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 06/17/14 05:15 AM

Kyra M, you say
Quote:
5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.
Question: Are saying then that, for you, the "Whole" and 'god' as Being are one and the same?
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: The Concept of the Whole and Threadism - 06/17/14 05:20 AM

Kyra M. You mentioned
Quote:
Originally Posted By: Kyra M
Hi Rev,...
BTW I've been doing your colour relaxing technique. It really does work and it's fascinating to visualize the colours, often more vibrant than reality : - )

About the colours: Did you read what I wrote about adding the colour GREEN--chrome green, the colour of growth and healing?