THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value?

Posted by: Revlgking

THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/02/08 04:43 AM

PART OF A SERIES in dealing with evil--the problem of pain and suffering:
Ellis and fellow egos in cyber space: My ego would like to know how you are doing. If you do not have an ego, please say so. How would we know you are telling the truth?

QUESTIONS ABOUT THE EGO
=======================
What is the ego?
Freud: http://psychology.about.com/od/eindex/g/def_ego.htm
Adler: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/hstein/wie-hs.htm
================================================================
MY EGO REALLY ENJOYED THE FOLLOWING ESSAY AND VIDEOS
====================================================
http://hubpages.com/hub/How-to-back-down-gracefully-in-an-argument
Scroll down near the bottom. There you will find a short YouTube video on "How to Get rid of the egoism." A brilliant explanation of the ego's function. The first of a series.
============================================
Meanwhile, think about:
Do you have sensitive, a bland, or a tough ego? Is there such a thing as ego-bashing? Or ego abuse? Does having a sensitive ego prevent you from taking part in forums like this? Do not be afraid to be anonymous. Is there such a program as: EGOS ANONYMOUS? If not, would it be a good idea?

What are your questions?
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/02/08 05:27 AM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
If you do not have an ego, please say so. How would we know you are telling the truth?


You wouldn't unless you were free of egoic influence yourself.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/02/08 07:47 AM

So, TT: Do you have an ego? I will take your written word as if it were spoken, unless you want to call me.

BTW, does your response mean that ego-less people are like infallible lie detectors?

In keeping with the teachings of Jesus, as found in the Gospels, my ego has always known that actions, such as what I write, are what count. As the old saying goes: "Sometimes our actions speak so loud, others cannot hear what we are saying, or writing."

BTW, I know I have an ego. However, with the help of GOD-consciousness--LOVE-consciousness, it seems to be a very helpful servant; or should I say, friend?
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/02/08 09:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
So, TT: Do you have an ego? I will take your written word as if it were spoken, unless you want to call me.

As I said, unless you were without the influence of ego you would not be able to tell whether anyone else was. So whatever I would say would be subjective to your ongoing opinion and attachment to your part (identity) in the unfolding universe.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

BTW, does your response mean that ego-less people are like infallible lie detectors?

My response means consciousness recognizes consciousness. Ego recognizes ego. Without knowing consciousness ego stands alone with ego.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

In keeping with the teachings of Jesus, as found in the Gospels, my ego has always known that actions, such as what I write, are what count. As the old saying goes: "Sometimes our actions speak so loud, others cannot hear what we are saying, or writing."

From the ego's point of view your actions are owned. From the ego-less point of immersion into spirit it is nature acting upon nature that creates the manifest. The ego sees it from a personal point of view, the ego-less from the point of view of God. Consciousness witnessing consciousness.
Generally speaking the waking state ego consciousness reveres the loud voice of the ego and ignores the subtle voice of spirit.

Or simply put the ego loves to hear itself speak..regardless of whether anyone listens, it finds importance in itself and all of its opinions.
Anything the ego puts forth may resonate at the surface level of definitions and meanings of words in a few who are like minded and closed within the same surface loop.
That which is spoken from spirit resonates within everything because everything is spirit. If the ego has grabbed the attention of awareness the resonance will be ignored, but the word of God is not random and isolated to the few. It is the very vibration of Truth that will continue resonating until the ego is set aside and the awareness is redirected toward the truth in the awakening of the soul. The voice of spirit is what maintains all of creation. It is a constant and it is amazing that it is so easily ignored, for the voice of opinion and of personal, and passing importance.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

BTW, I know I have an ego. However, with the help of GOD-consciousness--LOVE-consciousness, it seems to be a very helpful servant; or should I say, friend?

It would seem that way from belief and opinion that what you have gained in the personal has value, even tho none of it will be taken with you when you leave your body. All value will disappear with the dissolution of the body and the ego's identification with it.
Without knowing the true value of who you are, clinging to values that will not survive your own death seem rather pointless.

To address your own words:
"Have you the answer as to why anyone, but a fool, would choose ignorance over education?"

I think knowledge of ones self is much more advantageous over education based on illusions of the ego.

"Ignorance-based, or unenlightened, beliefs are deadly! And they will continue to inflict suffering, pain and death until the victims get tired of it and wake up."

One would have to break the loop of education that comes from the un-enlightened mindset before death is no longer experienced as the normal part of living. One would have to Ascend the dense vibratory level of the ego and rise above its limited identification of self importance to join the ongoing Universal mind in action.

Beliefs are of the ego.
True Wisdom is of experience that is non-personal because it applies to everything that is both personal and non-personal.
What is Truth for one is Truth for all...
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/02/08 04:39 PM

Posters. Who among you is, are, able to make sense of the huge pile of dense, dark, dull and opaque material above, claiming to be Truth and Wisdom? By this forum, or in a PM, I would love to hear from you.

BTW, the above is filled--unconsciously of course--with ego-based paralogisms--not a common term in English, but is used in French. Dans la Critique de la raison pure, Kant a identifié les paralogismes comme étant des illusions de la raison.(In the Critic of the pure reason, Kant identified the paralogismes as being illusions of the reason.)
Posted by: Iztaci

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/02/08 05:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Posters. Who among you is, are, able to make sense of the huge pile of dense, dark, dull and opaque material above, claiming to be Truth and Wisdom? By this forum, or in a PM, I would love to hear from you.

BTW, the above is filled--unconsciously of course--with ego-based paralogisms--not a common term in English, but is used in French. Dans la Critique de la raison pure, Kant a identifié les paralogismes comme étant des illusions de la raison.(In the Critic of the pure reason, Kant identified the paralogismes as being illusions of the reason.)


I'm afraid I have to disagree. There is not even the slightest illusion of reason contained therein. Only the claim of reason, or logic, or sense. Even your redundant expression; dense, dark, dull and opaque fails to fully describe the void it creates in the multiverse. It is a true vacuum. Not a molecule of gas, even an atom... not even a virtual particle, whatever the volume occupied, may enter in. Not even a thought.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/02/08 06:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Iztaci
There is not even the slightest illusion of reason contained therein. Only the claim of reason, or logic, or sense... It is a true vacuum. Not a molecule of gas, even an atom... not even a virtual particle, whatever the volume occupied, may enter in. Not even a thought.
WOW! And your comment, Iztaci, did not contain one argumentum ad hominen.
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/02/08 08:01 PM

Glad to see the ignore button hasn't kept Iztaci (is tacky?) from being sucked into the vacuum. wink
Posted by: Iztaci

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/02/08 10:18 PM

Revlgking;

Yeah, the ad hominem attack never produces anything but chaos. "Stalin thought two plus two was four, but Stalin was a monster so two plus two must equal something else."

Then there are the logical fallacies like "vacuums suck" which, of course, they do not. A vacuum is not a thing but the absence of a thing. Air pressure. An absence can "do" nothing. Air pressure, a thing, can do something. It can "push". So, one cannot be "sucked into a vacuum because there is no such thing as suck. One can be pushed into a vacuum but, of course, when that happens it is no longer a vacuum.

When a "statement" consists of nothing but logical fallacies and ad hominem attacks, it is not really a statement but a void, into which one cannot be sucked but pushed... by the hot, high-pressure gases encountered in such a "conversation". The upside is; it can only happen to you if you let it. If you refuse to respond in kind, the hot gases will eventually dissipate. They have no choice. Without more heat, they must cool.

Regards,

is tacky
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/02/08 11:06 PM

Life is what you make it.
Or it is something completely different...

C'est la vie
Posted by: Ellis

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/03/08 04:45 AM

Perhaps there is a difference between having an ego and being egotisical?
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/03/08 06:08 AM

Originally Posted By: Ellis
Perhaps there is a difference between having an ego and being egotisical?

The relative definitions of ego from the waking state are boxed in belief and opinion.
Being egotistic in some peoples minds is being self absorbed in ones personality, reverence for ones personal accomplishments, aquaintances, name dropping to give value to ones status. Self idolatry.

From the standpoint of conscious awareness and enlightenment the ego is what separates the absolute unmanifest potential from the manifest.
When speaking of ego regarding enlightenment, (generally speaking) the term is indicating that awareness is saturated in beliefs and opinions of the manifest as it is interpreted through personality. Stored memories and attachments to the personal experience limiting awareness of reality to belief and personal opinion.
I am God, you are God, we all are God etc.etc. The personal relates to God through the personal experience.
From intellectual discrimination in expanding consciousness, awareness becomes aware of awareness itself which is part and parcel to everything and everyone.
The personal is seen as extremely small when compared to the absolute. From that experience it is difficult to linger or continue to grasp onto ones own beliefs as awareness of greater mind emerges and awareness becomes cognizant of itself as universal mind. From universal mind anything can be known about the universe. There are no limits to experience and to desire.
Fulfillment is no longer idealized within the limits of opinion and filters of belief. Fulfillment is found within the extending limitless awareness of everything being perfect as it is.

The intellect immersed in ego narrows the unlimited potential into personal experiences, fear, destruction, chaos, feelings and duality of mind in the beliefs of good and evil.
The knower and the known become limited by the known so the knower is unaware of its potential to know itself. The known is seen as the knower tucked between two points that are birth and death, experiencing everything in between but nothing beyond, forgetting the knower before birth of the body and the knower after death of the body.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/03/08 07:03 AM

Originally Posted By: Ellis
Perhaps there is a difference between having an ego and being egotistical?
I agree: there is! Overcoming egoism--worship of the self (psyche/soul/mind) is the challenge. I am working on it by inviting all egos, including my own, to become friendly and join me in the challenge.

BTW, I have a theory as why atheists reject the concept of gods, or a God. They conceive of God--the kind most religions worship--as being just a BIG ego, who demands that we worship him/her.

I gave up this concept when I outgrew believing in a literal Santa. BTW, I can still enjoy the myth, which is how I raised my own children; I taught them the myth and the story--a fascinating one--behind it. There was a St. Nicholas, who was born in what is now Turkey. He became a bishop at a very young age.
http://www.devotions.co.uk/st-nicholas.shtml
Posted by: Ellis

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/04/08 12:35 AM

Rev wrote
'BTW, I have a theory as why atheists reject the concept of gods, or a God. They conceive of God--the kind most religions worship--as being just a BIG ego, who demands that we worship him/her. '

No they don't. Most atheists just, I don't think I can put this more simply, do not believe in the existence of the supernatural or the paranormal.
Posted by: Iztaci

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/04/08 01:06 AM

As an agnostic, I share many of the views of atheists. One that I especially share is the view stated by Ellis that we tend not to believe in the supernatural. I don't even believe in the word supernatural. Or un-natural or transnatural. It is common for people to refer to compounds formulated in labs as un-natural. If recombining elements or compounds into new compounds is un-natural, nature is un-natural. A literal impossibility. Nature recombines constantly, for instance, the run-off from heavy rainfall mixes salt or other compounds from one area into another. Salt reacts with the compounds already there to create other compounds. What could be un-natural about that? In short, we live in a "natural" universe. We can only play around with the natural aspects of this natural universe. To assume we are even capable of creating, or even detecting something "un-natural" is simple arrogance based on our minuscule understanding of what is.
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/04/08 03:35 AM

Quote:

To assume we are even capable of creating, or even detecting something "un-natural" is simple arrogance based on our minuscule understanding of what is.

If we apply that thought to what is natural, since we can't know the twisted implications of defining un-natural, it would be safe to assume that our minuscule understanding of what is is incorrect about everything.
Posted by: Iztaci

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/04/08 04:59 AM

Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
Quote:

To assume we are even capable of creating, or even detecting something "un-natural" is simple arrogance based on our minuscule understanding of what is.

If we apply that thought to what is natural, since we can't know the twisted implications of defining un-natural, it would be safe to assume that our minuscule understanding of what is is incorrect about everything.


Okay. And?
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/04/08 07:46 AM

And what?
You've already made all the assumptions, with the disclaimer that nothing can be grasped from the current level of intelligence.

What more should be said?
It's a free ticket to say what you will without claiming any responsibility to reality and without any moral implications.

Everything is as it should be regardless of what anyone believes.
Posted by: Iztaci

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/04/08 09:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
And what?
You've already made all the assumptions, with the disclaimer that nothing can be grasped from the current level of intelligence.

What more should be said?
It's a free ticket to say what you will without claiming any responsibility to reality and without any moral implications.

Everything is as it should be regardless of what anyone believes.


So... ummm... you're just explaining to me what I said while at the same time, asking what more should be said?

For you, I'd answer "Nothing more should be said."

If that is not your question, I have no clue what you should say as you, as usual, threw in a straw-man fallacy and attacked the straw-man.

Posted by: Revlgking

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/04/08 04:07 PM

Iztaci, I don't think that straw men, or women, would ever be allowed even in so-called professional tag-team wrestling, eh? laugh
BTW, your presence, help and refreshing comments are much appreciated. Tag.
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/04/08 06:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Iztaci


So... ummm... you're just explaining to me what I said while at the same time, asking what more should be said?



Not at all. Just referring to the fact that nothing said from that platform of reality has any relevance to reality.
A vacuum of infinite intelligence.
Or an infinite vacuum of intelligence.
Or and infinite intelligent vacuum..... Or.. tired
Posted by: Iztaci

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/04/08 11:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
Originally Posted By: Iztaci


So... ummm... you're just explaining to me what I said while at the same time, asking what more should be said?



Not at all. Just referring to the fact that nothing said from that platform of reality has any relevance to reality.
A vacuum of infinite intelligence.
Or an infinite vacuum of intelligence.
Or and infinite intelligent vacuum..... Or.. tired


... or, what time will it be in Saginaw a week from next Thursday? Septober, because Hewey, Dewey and Lewey were twins except for Cuthbert and he drove a Pontiac.
Posted by: Iztaci

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/04/08 11:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Iztaci, I don't think that straw men, or women, would ever be allowed even in so-called professional tag-team wrestling, eh? laugh
BTW, your presence, help and refreshing comments are much appreciated. Tag.


Thanks Revlgking. Appreciate the kind feedback.

The only time I ever tried a straw man was a scare-crow I made for my little garden. The crows quickly covered it with daubs of a nitrogen-rich glop with white spots in it and used it as an observation platform to survey the spoils.

Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/05/08 12:32 AM

Originally Posted By: Iztaci


... or, what time will it be in Saginaw a week from next Thursday? Septober, because Hewey, Dewey and Lewey were twins except for Cuthbert and he drove a Pontiac.


Yeah, and Ice cream has no bones...
The Rev. found the perfect tag team partner. wink

Game on!
Posted by: Iztaci

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/05/08 07:53 AM

Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
Originally Posted By: Iztaci


... or, what time will it be in Saginaw a week from next Thursday? Septober, because Hewey, Dewey and Lewey were twins except for Cuthbert and he drove a Pontiac.


Yeah, and Ice cream has no bones...
The Rev. found the perfect tag team partner. wink

Game on!


No, the game's not on. I'm not going to continue in a mano e mano did-to-did-not argument forever. It isn't fun and it is of no interest to the rest of those wishing to take part in a logical discussion. And it's completely off-topic. Your comments have become increasingly immature taunts one would expect from a sand-box. It's clear you insist on the last word so go ahead and have it. After that, you're just wasting your time and the forum's bandwidth.
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/05/08 09:09 AM

Originally Posted By: Iztaci


No, the game's not on. I'm not going to continue in a mano e mano did-to-did-not argument forever. It isn't fun and it is of no interest to the rest of those wishing to take part in a logical discussion. And it's completely off-topic. Your comments have become increasingly immature taunts one would expect from a sand-box. It's clear you insist on the last word so go ahead and have it. After that, you're just wasting your time and the forum's bandwidth.

This thread went off topic at post #28618, when the Rev. discovered he couldn't comprehend the subject of ego beyond his terms and vocabulary.
You piped in to make your comment regarding your opinion of my post and the Rev. happily acknowledged a growing tag team relationship.
Since you made the comment that the intelligence level of humanity is not sufficient to comment on the nature of reality as it is, it would seem a moot point to suggest anyone could discuss the topic to any satisfaction, least of all yours.
Which is probably why it hasn't progressed beyond this stage and also why no one else has attempted to engage the topic of discussion.
Anytime either of you want to objectify the topic rather than just immerse yourself in the example of it, would be good for the discussion.

The Rev. wants others to join him at the level of the ego to work on the ego, sort of a Jesse James ego Monster Garage where you can take a junker and soup it up.
You so far haven't said anything about the topic at hand, just made comments about the comments and commentators.

Any time you want to grow up, is when I would imagine you might say something with some meaning toward this topic of discussion.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/05/08 03:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Iztaci
... No, the game's not on. I'm not going to continue in a mano e mano did-to-did-not argument ... it is of no interest to the rest of those wishing to take part in a logical discussion....It's clear you insist on the last word so go ahead and have it. ...
Exactly my feelings, Iztachi. From the beginning of my joining SAGG I have indicated that I am not here as the font of wisdom. My interest is: using the Socratic method of dialogue, perhaps we can work together--agreeing to disagree, in harmony--and to draw out our collective wisdom and learn from one another.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/05/08 03:32 PM

To all who would like, using the Socratic approach, get in on this dialogue: As we work to deal with the problem of evil with its suffering and pain, what do you feel are the burning issues and questions of primary and deepest concern to human kind? What makes us truly humane beings?
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/05/08 06:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
To all who would like, using the Socratic approach ("of or pertaining to Gk. philosopher Socrates" (469-399 B.C.E.), especially in reference to his method of eliciting truth by question and answer.), get in on this dialogue: As we work to deal with the problem of evil with its suffering and pain, what do you feel are the burning issues and questions of primary and deepest concern to human kind? What makes us truly humane beings?


In Question and answer one must have answers to questions.
God is not democratic, only the ego idealizes God thru democratic opinion and belief.


(From the Yoga of Jesus)

The "Second Birth": Awakening of Soul-Intuition



Hidden Truth in Jesus' parables


And the disciples came, and said unto him, "Why speakest thou unto them in parables?" He answered and said unto them,"Because it is give unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given...Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand"
(Matthew 13: 10, 11,13)

When Jesus was asked by his disciples why he taught in parables, he answered, "Because it is ordained that you who are my real disciples, living in spiritualized life and disciplining your actions according to my teachings, deserve by virtue of your inner awakening in your meditations to understand the truth of the arcane mysteries of heaven and how to attain the kindom of God, Cosmic Consciousness hidden behind the vibratory creation of cosmic delusion.
"But ordinary people, unprepared in their receptivity, are not able to either comprehend or to practice the deeper wisdom-truths. From parables, they glean according to their understanding simpler truths from the wisdom I send out to them. By practical application of what they are able to receive, they make some progress toward redemption."...
How do the receptive perceive truth, whereas the unreceptive "Seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand"? The ultimate truths of heaven and the kindom of God, the reality that lies behind sensory perception and beyond the cogitations of the rationalizing mind, can only be grasped by intuition__awakening the intuitive knowing, the pure comprehension of the soul.

There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him,
"Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles thou doest, except God be with him."
Jesus answered and said unto him, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
Nicodemus saith unto him, " How can a man be born when his old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"
Jesus answered, "Verily, verily I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of flesh is flesh; and that which is born of Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, 'Ye must be born again.'The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit"
(John 3:1-8)

Nicodemus visited Jesus secretly in the night, for he feared social criticism. It was an act of courage for one of his position to approach the controversial teacher and to declare his faith in Jesus' divine stature. He reverently affirmed his conviction that only a master who had actual God-Communion could work the superlaws that govern the inner life of beings and all things.
In reply, Christ forthrightly directed Nicodemus' attention to the heavenly Source of all phenomena in creation -- Mundane as well as "miraculous"--pointing out succinctly that anyone can contact that Source and know the wonders that proceed therefrom, even as Jesus himself did, by undergoing the spiritual "second birth" of intuitional soul-awakening.
The superficially curious crowds attracted by displays of phenomenal powers received only scantily from the wisdom trove of Jesus, but the manifest sincerity of Nicodemus elicited from the Master determinate guidance that emphasized the Supreme Power and Goal on which man should concentrate. Miracles of wisdom to enlighten the mind are superior to miracles of physical healing and the subjugation of nature; and the even greater miracle is the healing of the root-cause of every form of suffering: delusive ignorance that obscures the unity of man's soul and God. That primordial forgetfulness is vanquished only by Self-Realization, through the intuitive power by which the soul directly apprehends its own nature as individualized Spirit and perceives Spirit as the essence of everything.

All bona fide revealed religions of the world are based on intuitive knowledge. Each has an exoteric or outer particularity, and an esoteric or inner core. The exoteric aspect is the public image, and includes moral precepts and a body of doctrines, dogmas, dissertations, rules, and customs to guide the general populace of its followers. The esoteric aspect includes methods that focus on actual communion of the soul with God. The exoteric aspect is for the many; the esoteric is for the ardent few. It is the esoteric aspect of religion that leads to intuition, the firsthand knowledge of Reality.
The lofty Sanatana Dharma of the Vedic philosophy of ancient India--summarized in the Unpanishads and in the six classical systems of metaphysical knowledge, and peerlessly encapsulated in the Bhagavad Gita--is based on intuitional perception of the Transcendental Reality. Buddhism, with its various methods of controlling the mind and gaining depth in meditation, advocates intuitive knowledge to realize the transcendence of nirvana. Sufism in Islam anchors the intuitive mystical experience of the soul. Within the Jewish religion are esoteric teachings based on the inner experience of the Divine, evidenced abundantly in the legacy of the God-illumined Biblical prophets. Christ's teachings are fully expressive of that realization. The apostle John's Revelation is a remarkable disclosure of the soul's intuitional perception of deepest truths garbed in metaphor.


The "second birth," the necessity of which Jesus speaks, admits us the land of intutional perception of truth. The New Testament may not have been scribed with the word "intuition" but it is replete with references to intuitive knowledge. Indeed, the twenty-one verses describing Nicodemus' visit present in condensed epigrammatic sayings so typical of Oriental scripture, Jesus' comprehensive esoteric teachings relating to the practical attainment of the infinite kingdom of blissful divine consciousness.
These verses have been largely interpreted in support of such doctrines as baptism of the body by water as prerequisite of entering God's kingdom after death (John 3:5); that Jesus is the only "son of God" (John 3:16}; that mere "belief" in Jesus is sufficient for salvation, and that all are condemned who do not so believe (John 3:17-18).
Such exoteric reading of scripture engulfs in dogma the universality of religion. A panorama of unity unfolds in an understanding of esoteric truth.


"Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God"

This choice of words by Jesus is an allusion to his familiarity with the Eastern spiritual doctrine of reincarnation. One meaning to be drawn from this precept is that the soul has to be born repeatedly in various bodies until it reawakens to realization of its native perfection.
It is a false hope to believe that at bodily death the soul automatically enters into an everlasting angelic existence in heaven. Unless and until one attains perfection by removing the debris of Karma (effects of one's egoic beliefs and actions} from the individualized God-image of his soul, he cannot enter God's kingdom. (Be ye perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect" [Matt: 5:48])
The ordinary person, constantly creating new karmic bondage by his wrong actions and material desires, adding to the accumulate effects of numerous previous incarnations, cannot free his soul on one lifetime. It takes many lifetimes of physical, mental and spiritual evolution to work out the Karmic entanglements that block soul intuition, the pure knowing without which one cannot see the "kingdom of God."
The principle import of Jesus' words to Nicodemus goes beyond an implied reference to reincarnation, This is clear from Nicodemus'request for further explanation of how and adult could reach God's kingdom: Must he reenter his mother's womb and be reborn? Jesus elaborates int eh succeeding verses as to how a person can be "Born again" in his present incarnation--how a soul identified with the flesh and sense limitations can acquire by meditation a new birth in Cosmic Consciousness.


"Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."


To be "born of water" is usually interpreted as a mandate for the outer ritual of baptism by water - a symbolic rebirth - in order to be eligible for God's kingdom after death. But Jesus did not mention a rebirth involving water. "Water" here means protoplasm; the body is made up mostly of water and begins its earthly existence in the amniotic fluid of the mother's womb.
Though the soul has to go through the natural process of birth that God has establishes through His biological laws, physical birth is not enough for man to be fit to see or enter into the kingdom of God.
The ordinary consciousness is tied to the flesh, and through the two physical eyes man can see only into the diminutive playhouse of this earth and its encircling starry sky. Through the small outer windows of the five senses, body-bound souls perceive nothing of the wonders beyond limited matter.
When a person is high aloft in an airplane he sees no boundaries, only limitlessness of space and free skies. But if he is caged in a room, surrounded by windowless walls, he loses the vision of vastness.
Similarly, when man's soul is sent out in the infinity of Spirit into a sensory-circumscribed mortal body, his outer experiences are confined to the limitations of matter. So Jesus alluded to the fact, as expressed by modern scientists, that we can see and know only as much as the limited instrumentality of the senses and reason allow.
Just as by a two inch telescope the details of the distant stars cannot be seen, so Jesus was saying that man cannot see or know anything about the heavenly kingdom of God through the unaugmented power of his mind and senses. However, a 200-inch telescope enables man to peer into the vast reaches of star-peopled space; and similarly, by developing the intuitional sense through meditation he can behold and enter the causal and astral kingdom of God--birthplace of thoughts, stars, and souls.
Jesus points out that after man's soul becomes incarnate--born of water, or protoplasm--he should transcend the mortal impositions of the body by self-development. Through awakening the "sixth sense," intuition, and opening the spiritual eye, his illuminated consciousness can enter into the kingdom of God. In this second birth the body remains the same; but the souls consciousness, instead of being tied to the material plane, is free to roam in the boundless, eternally joyous empire of Spirit.
God intended His human children to live on earth with an awakened perception of the Spirit informing all creation, and thus to enjoy His dream-drama as a cosmic entertainment. Alone among living creatures, the human body was equipped, as a special creation of God, with the instruments and capacities necessary to express fully the soul's divine potentials. But through the delusion of Satan(EGO), man ignores his higher endowments and remains attached to the limited fleshly form and its mortality.
As individualized souls, spirit progressively unfolds Its power of knowing through the successive stages of evolution: as unconscious response in minerals, as feeling in plant life as instinctive sentient knowledge in animals, as intellect, reason, and undeveloped introspective intuition in man, and as pure intuition in the superman.
It is said that after eight million lives traveling the successive steps of upward evolution like a prodigal son through the cycles of incarnations, at last the soul arrives in human birth. Originally, human beings were pure sons of God. Nobody knows the divine consciousness enjoyed by Adam and Eve except the saints. Ever since the Fall, man's misuse of his independence, he has lost that consciousness by associative equivalence of himself with the fleshly ego and its mortal desires. Not altogether uncommon are persons more like instinct-motivated animals than intellectually responsive human beings. They are so materially minded that when you talk about food or sex or money they understand and reflexively respond, like Pavlov's famous salivating dog. But try to engage them in a meaningful philosophical exchange about God or the mystery of life, and their uncomprehending reaction is as though their conversationalist were crazy.
The spiritual man is trying to free himself from the materiality that is the cause of his prodigal wandering in the maze of incarnations, but the ordinary man does not want more than a betterment of his earthly existence. As instinct confines the animal within prescribed limits, so also does reason, belief and opinion of ego circumscribe the human being who does not try to be superman by developing intuition and expanded awareness of reality.
The person who worships reason only and is not conscious of the availability of his power of intuition in expanded states of consciousness--by which alone he can know himself as soul--remains little more than a rational animal, out of touch with the spiritual heritage that is his birthright....
Posted by: Ellis

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/05/08 08:05 PM

It is a great pity there is no precis button. Apparently in cyberspace there is no scarcity of bandwidth.

TT- I challenge you to write a post in Plain English. You may not be such a lonely genius then, when you converse with we morons in a non-condesending way.

Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/06/08 12:06 AM

I didn't author the above post on "Second Birth", tho I did write it. So what is it that you don't comprehend?

If we are going to approach this subject in the Socratic dialogue the Rev. desires then its all about questions and answers rather than taking corners and insisting ones own corner is the extent of the universe and that one play strictly in one playfield.

If one wishes to elevate themselves beyond the influences of the ego one will necessarily have to learn something new so as to remove themselves from the realm of lesser understandings.

I think if someone was really interested in a subject they would take the time to learn, rather than take their beliefs and skim topics looking for something that meets their expectations and without actually learning something new, just add a few words in the subject matter to their repertoire of thoughts, claiming to have the knowledge and experience of said topic, don'tcha think?

Since we are speaking of enlightenment and ego lets begin with the oldest authors on the subject of ego and enlightenment. Then by deciphering the meanings of enlightened scripture one begins to understand.
Since I have I have dedicated my life to this particular subject matter I feel I have some understanding of the topic and of what scripture is based on.

You want me to change the language.
The Rev. wants all posts regarding subject matter to be in 25 words or less, with a personal biography and Iztaci doesn't believe in anything other than facts and figures.

So far we have a small group of people who want things their way and no one has yet tried to take themselves out of the box they insist reality fit in for their convenience.

This is all about ego right? And no one wants to change anything inside of them, they all want the outside to change so they don't have to.

Great demonstration of how not to rise above the ego.
Posted by: sariah

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/06/08 12:40 AM

Although you so believe, you have not risen above the ego. YOU attract to YOU your self projections, yet you discredit them, and judge them and SEPARATE them from yourself. Perhaps you need to dedicate and study more to fully understand what enlightenment truly is and grow beyond your box.
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/06/08 12:46 AM

I attract growth and possibility.
You see what you can see.
Posted by: sariah

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/06/08 01:05 AM

How do you grow and create greater possibilities while judging? Can you see beyond your judgments that are reflected to you through the words of others and grow? True, we can only see what we can see, what do you see TT that is not filtered through judgment?
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/06/08 01:15 AM

Originally Posted By: sariah
How do you grow and create greater possibilities while judging? Can you see beyond your judgments that are reflected to you through the words of others and grow? True, we can only see what we can see, what do you see TT that is not filtered through judgment?

Do you suppose the crucifixion was the Judgment of Jesus toward himself through the others that strove to kill him? Possibly Jesus exalted himself in social and spiritual suicide.. confused

Anyway the ramblings and illusions of ego that come from the visions of ones decision to identify with what comes at them is the lesser vision of the ego when one does not have the experience of God within.
Once one knows all is but the One consciousness life begins to get interesting.
Why limit yourself to believing in the beliefs and projections of those others as the ideal reality?
Posted by: sariah

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/06/08 01:35 AM

Perhaps the crucifixion of Jesus was an analogy of self transmutation.

When one experiences God, then one realizes that there is only God in the reflection of potential. Life gets interesting when one realizes that all experiences are a reflection of ones inner being, henceforth there is no believing in others, only self growth through reflection, realizing that others are just a mirror of our inner projections.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/06/08 04:33 AM

Sariah. I hope you and the other new voices will see fit to stay with us. The attitude expressed by some of us posters can be a bit problematic, and off-putting, don't you think? I assume are the accepting kind.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/06/08 04:47 AM

Sariah, you wrote to TT:
Quote:
"Although you so believe, you have not risen above the ego."
Note that he refuses to accept your observation.

But note, also: He has no problem calling others egoic:
Quote:
This is all about ego right and no one wants to change anything inside of them, they all want the outside to change so they don't have to.

BTW, I want my ego to be a friendly servant. smile
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/06/08 05:25 AM

Originally Posted By: sariah
Perhaps the crucifixion of Jesus was an analogy of self transmutation.

The crucifixion was a reflection of many things.
"Suffering" in the belief of such difficulty as "rising above helplessness" in Self mastery. Ignorance of ego. Love of God. Unity of the un-manifest and the manifest. Reincarnation.
Circumvention of Karma through self discovery.
Illusion of the physical body.
The battle between good and evil also known as intuitive knowledge of Self and the destructive habit of clinging to physical identity.
Surrender and Service.
God in multidimensional activity...to name a few.
Originally Posted By: sariah

When one experiences God, then one realizes that there is only God in the reflection of potential. Life gets interesting when one realizes that all experiences are a reflection of ones inner being, henceforth there is no believing in others, only self growth through reflection, realizing that others are just a mirror of our inner projections.

Life does get interesting when one experiences the reflections as ones inner being. Until God is perceived as the underlying Truth of all reflections the illusion of growth, or "Second Birth" is a choice to discern between the underlying Truth and the surface reflections.
Once that choice has become permanent there is only God. All desires, experiences, thoughts, and actions everywhere and always are no longer owned in the thought of individuality. There is only One Mind manifest from the unmanifest.


Originally Posted By: Revlgking

I want my ego to be a friendly servant. smile

It's nice to want.

But you still can't solve a problem from the level in which it was created.
Or said another way. Wanting doesn't give you results. It may draw forth the necessary reflections of truth and illusion but how will you discern between the two without the experience of truth? The reality is, that the truth has always been present within illusions of belief, why would saying you want something different actually change anything, even if you say it a thousand times?
Relative truths are the illusions of belief and opinion. Wanting from illusion and projecting an ideal from illusion doesn't create change, it just cycles old ideas into a temporary thought of something new.

"The spiritual man is trying to free himself from the materiality that is the cause of his prodigal wandering in the maze of incarnations, but the ordinary man does not want more than a betterment of his earthly existence."
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/06/08 11:01 PM

Wanting doesn't get results?
What absolute nonsense!
Wanting to be in tune and harmony with the Infinite--GOD--plus my wanting to take, and taking, right actions, stop resisting, has got me, and is getting me all kinds of results.

This wanting/action process has even got you to wise up and write shorter, less opaque and better-organized posts, now and then. Though you do slip back, too often, into your old ego-based habit.

Now, please get rid of the nasty habit of taunting posters, especially our two new and much-welcome ones, as if we are brain-dead!
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/06/08 11:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Wanting doesn't get results?
What absolute nonsense!
Wanting to be in tune and harmony with the Infinite--GOD--plus my wanting to take, and taking, right actions, stop resisting, has got me, and is getting me all kinds of results.

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
#28655 The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that what we call "creation" is an illusion of the human mind, and we, individually, are creating it with our minds, right now.


Originally Posted By: Revlgking

This wanting/action process has even got you to wise up and write shorter, less opaque and better-organized posts, now and then. Though you do slip back, too often, into your old ego-based habit.

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
#28655 The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that what we call "creation" is an illusion of the human mind, and we, individually, are creating it with our minds, right now.

Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Now, please get rid of the nasty habit of taunting posters, especially our two new and much-welcome ones, as if we are brain-dead!

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
#28655 The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that what we call "creation" is an illusion of the human mind, and we, individually, are creating it with our minds, right now. BTW, I say the above as a matter of fact, without being judgmental. All illusions can be helpful.


Like I said. It's nice to want, but...Wanting doesn't give you any thing... wink
Especially when want is creating from the level of illusion.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/07/08 05:29 AM

Some illusions are good; some, like TT, are not so good. smile So what! As I said, depending on ones point of view, "All illusions can be helpful."
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/07/08 10:10 AM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Some illusions are good; some, like TT, are not so good. smile So what! As I said, depending on ones point of view, "All illusions can be helpful."


Illusions are illusions.
The notion of a good or bad illusion, is still illusion.
Personal points of view created from illusion as illusion is
illusion.

Obviously trying to self impose an illusion as another's illusion is still an illusion, or to suppose another is something other than an illusion is an illusion created from illusion.

This is fun, isn't it? wink
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/07/08 04:53 PM

Zero-sum games are experiences played by those trapped in their egos. Such are of no value to those interested in community encouragement.
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/07/08 07:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Zero-sum games are experiences played by those trapped in their egos. Such are of no value to those interested in community encouragement.
Exactly!!!

The following quotes are testimony to the reality of the Zero-Sum game or the illusion of ego.

Quote:
The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that what we call "creation" is an illusion of the human mind, and we, individually, are creating it with our minds, right now.
Thoughts generated from illusion produce illusion. Ego is the illusion generator.
Quote:

BTW, I say the above as a matter of fact, without being judgmental. All illusions can be helpful.

From illusion generated by ego, judgment is an illusion, and what is helpful or not helpful defined by the ego-mind living in illusion.
Quote:

I have my version of creation, and you have yours.

Ego generating the illusion of me, mine, you, yours, separated from awareness of truth projects fragments of illusion, and believes fragments of illusion can be added to create the sum of something real when in fact it is still illusion. No thing plus no thing is still "no thing".
Quote:

Think about it! What are you and I creating, right now?

Nothing of any value to community if such community is the fragmenting of illusion, and without anything real to give value to, value is lost in the illusions of, illusion being reality.
Posted by: sariah

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/07/08 10:53 PM

Perhaps the crucifixion is an analogy of self transformation.

There is only God/consciousness, and choice has nothing to do with this actuality. A choice made permanent would only hinder potential. Potential is all there is, potential is always becoming, just as knowledge is always expanding. Choices are made through knowledge, therefore, what is a permanent choice?

If all thoughts and actions everywhere and always are no longer owned in the thought of individuality, how does one think and act, do they think and act as if they are God?

You seem to like the word illusion. What is not real or deceptive if all outer occurrences are inner projections? What part of the psyche determines what is real or not real?

The unmanifest, is just that, unmanifested, so how does the one mind come to be? How does mind manifest the unmanifested, or itself? Is all manifestation an Illusion? If so, how does the mind that is of the unmanifest, realize that it is, within itself an illusion? And if it can do this, then anything emanating from the one mind would be an illusion, for it is, in itself illusion.


Posted by: Ellis

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/07/08 11:50 PM

There is a difference between an illusion and a delusion. I think that there is some confusion about that here.

An illusion contains the idea of falsehood or delberate misleading by one person to another, whereas delusion is a false belief or idea held individually, perhaps shared with no one. Thus whilst we may have our own delusions, recognised or unrecognised, we are also unable to see the illusions presented to us by others. It is the latter illusions that underpin much zealotry and and unhappiness in our society. it is we who allow the unscrupulous amongst our leaders to use such illusions to extend their personal power, at the expense of public good.

We need our dreams, our aspirations and our beliefs, but we have to guard against having them used by others for their own illusory ends.
Posted by: sariah

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/08/08 12:17 AM

Wise words and well said. Yes, we need our dreams and aspirations and beliefs, for that is the trinity of being.

And yes, we need to guard against having them used by others for their own illusionary ends.

thank you for Summarizing this so well.

Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/08/08 12:47 AM

Originally Posted By: sariah
Perhaps the crucifixion is an analogy of self transformation.
Perhaps it is more than that. Perhaps not.
Originally Posted By: sariah

There is only God/consciousness, and choice has nothing to do with this actuality. A choice made permanent would only hinder potential.

Potential cannot be hindered other than in egoic thought, making a choice (stand in belief which is an illusion) to reduce it from potential to something with limits and boundaries.
Once one makes the choice to let go of such boundaries of the imagination potential can reveal itself. Once one aligns with a choice that is expanding it is said to be permanent. But in Truth nothing is permanent other than the absolute potential and its reflection as consciousness or God.
Originally Posted By: sariah
Potential is all there is, potential is always becoming, just as knowledge is always expanding. Choices are made through knowledge, therefore, what is a permanent choice?

Potential is potential and is becoming thru the choices of individuality. It in itself never becomes something or is reduced to something thru choice. Choice is the expression of will that is the nature of consciousness living within potential.
Originally Posted By: sariah

If all thoughts and actions everywhere and always are no longer owned in the thought of individuality, how does one think and act, do they think and act as if they are God?
What is God but potential or consciousness? What is God if not the activity of Creation or desire and thought within potential as well as the silent stillness of potential?
Originally Posted By: sariah

You seem to like the word illusion. What is not real or deceptive if all outer occurrences are inner projections? What part of the psyche determines what is real or not real?

I think you think I seem to like the word illusion wink ..I think the word illusion is over played in the discussions of consciousness or loosely applied in the intellectual discussions that come not from awakened intellect but intellect immersed and bound in definitions based on perceptions of reality that is illusion.
If something is perceived one day as something and another as something else, the reference to illusion is that perceptions change with beliefs and opinions of the senses driven outward into experience rather than inward to that which underlies experience or from the awareness of Self absolute.

An interesting thought. Most dogs have a better sense of hearing and smell and taste than humans. Other animals better eyesight. Yet we as humans decide that our senses are much better adapted to deciding the true nature of reality.
Animals live purely in the moment without the reason to measure the past against the present or the future, and we as humans from outward driven belief in our limited senses pretend to assume what we see and hear, smell and taste is real.
Originally Posted By: sariah

The unmanifest, is just that, unmanifested, so how does the one mind come to be? How does mind manifest the unmanifested, or itself?

The unmanifest has a reflection that is the manifest. Both have always been. It doesn't come into being other than from the notions of it not being and then the notion of it being.
The notion is part and parcel to the unmanifest reflecting itself as potential
Originally Posted By: sariah

Is all manifestation an Illusion?
No.
Originally Posted By: sariah
If so, how does the mind that is of the unmanifest, realize that it is, within itself an illusion?
It doesn't, it of itself does nothing but is everything.
The question is like asking how a water droplet remains water when it is separated from the ocean.
Originally Posted By: sariah

And if it can do this, then anything emanating from the one mind would be an illusion, for it is, in itself illusion.
No. Illusions are the thought idealized from outward movement of the physical senses derived from potential as being something other than potential. The egoic vibration imagined from potential within potential.
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/08/08 12:50 AM

Quote:

We need our dreams, our aspirations and our beliefs, but we have to guard against having them used by others for their own illusory ends.

When we do guard ourselves from others it is only thru the illusion that those others are not part of our dreams and the misunderstanding of dreams.
Posted by: sariah

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/08/08 01:38 AM

perhaps you should review Ellis's last post on illusion or delusion.

Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/08/08 01:42 AM

Originally Posted By: sariah
perhaps you should review Ellis's last post on illusion or delusion.

pourquoi?
Posted by: sariah

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/08/08 02:16 AM

porqué no
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/08/08 02:25 AM

Sariah, I have discovered that, SAGG, like Brainmeta has an ignore button, thank GOD!!!

Now, with help from http://hubpages.com/hub/How-to-back-down-gracefully-in-an-argument

let us dialogue about, and focus, on the topic, Re: EGO
=================================================
The following are not dogmas; they are just notes from what I have read:
=================
Pre-Op Before we operate let's Scrub in first.

The subject of arguments is a complex one so I'm going to segment this article into several distinct groups and I'll decode each one, complete with videos to give you ample comprehension of the particular area. This is going to require surgery of your mindset.

We will need to remove, or neutralize the cancer
(can't sir?) that's eating away at your ego, causing it to violently defend its life. I believe the surgery will be successful as it has a high success rate, and is completely safe.

As with any good surgery, we won't be removing any vital organs of thought, I will simply show you the cure and leave it up to you the surgeon, to decide if its the best course of action to take for your well being.
=====================
This is all about:
How to back down gracefully in an argument, retain your dignity, enlighten the other person, and sustain your own views.
=====
Do not interfere with others fights, especially if your doing so ONLY because you feel angry at what you see.
=========
Take Personal Responsibility for your feelings and emotions.
==========
Have the courage to question your every emotion.
=============================
When we're angry at anyone else for any reason, in reality were mad at ourselves for what we see about ourselves in them.
======================================
Its all in the definitions

Simply put re-framing is the art of changing your definitions of events.
====================
How you define things determines how you react to your world. How you define words defines how you react to language.
==========
Healthy dialogue: In healthy dialogue information is exchanged, in an unhealthy debate or argument, egocentric nonsense is exchanged.
=========
Psychoanalysis' definition of the ego:

the ego is the division of the psyche that is concious.

EGO MOST IMMEDIATELY controls thought and Behavior and is the most in touch with external reality--what we perceive with the senses.

This means that, if left unchecked, the ego can cause you to lose your cool, to say and do things that are not constructive, or based on reason, (like fighting just to be right even if your aware that your wrong!). In most arguments it's the ego that needs attention, not the subject matter.
===========
Dictionary.com's Definition:

* 1. The self, especially as distinct from the world and other selves.
* 2. In psychoanalysis, the division of the psyche that is conscious, most immediately controls thought and behavior, and is most in touch with external reality.
* 3. An exaggerated sense of self-importance; conceit.
* 4. Appropriate pride in oneself; self-esteem.

=================
Feel free to add you notes, including questions.
===================
THE GOAL IS:
============
The goal is enlightenment, not egotistical reprise. If people just leave their ego at the door, retain the definition of their goal, and use a little intelligence, they would experience:

* Less anger and arguments
* Aha Moments
* Friendship not competition
* Love
* Growth
* new keywords/concepts to look up in their favorite subjects
* deeper meaning to things they love and definiton of things they don't understand fully
* enlightenment in its purest form
* Less frustration with people, also known as learning "tolerance"
* The rush you feel when someone validates your opinions
* Receptiveness from others which translates into acknowledgment one of the 10 major things every person strives for in their life
* open mindedness, seeing things they would have missed had they kept their rigid views and not allowed new possibly valuable information in
* more friends and people who respect them highly
* money from writing hub pages because they speak more from understanding than ego driven opinionated rantings smile *wink*
* much much more...

===================




Posted by: sariah

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/08/08 02:27 AM

wink
Posted by: Iztaci

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/08/08 03:09 AM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Sariah, I have discovered that, SAGG, like Brainmeta has an ignore button, thank GOD!!!


So... where the h*** is that button, Revlgking? I haven't looked real hard but I haven't found it just messing around. I'd give ten quintillion bananas for one of those on this forum.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/08/08 03:17 AM

IZ, here is an example, if I want to ignore you:
I first click on you name "Izachi" then "profile" then I get your PM place as follows:

Member #: 2264
Title: Junior Member

Total Posts: 30
Registered on: Mon Nov 24 2008 10:39 PM
Add to UBB Buddies | Ignore this user | Add to Watched Users | Show User's Posts

You owe me one banna topped with TTTTTTTTTTTTT, OK laugh
Posted by: Iztaci

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/08/08 03:25 AM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
IZ, here is an example, if I want to ignore you:
I first click on you name "Izachi" then "profile" then I get your PM place as follows:

Member #: 2264
Title: Junior Member

Total Posts: 30
Registered on: Mon Nov 24 2008 10:39 PM
Add to UBB Buddies | Ignore this user | Add to Watched Users | Show User's Posts

You owe me on banna topped with TTTTTTTTTTTTT, OK laugh


I am eternally grateful. Heh, heh, heh.
Posted by: Revlgking

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/08/08 04:02 AM

BTW, when I clicked on my own name, I found I cannot ignore myself. My ego will not let me!!! laugh
Posted by: Ellis

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/08/08 05:56 AM

Rev-- Thank you!!
Posted by: Tutor Turtle

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/08/08 05:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Its all in the definitions

Simply put re-framing is the art of changing your definitions of events.

That is the nature of belief. Beliefs change within the framework of the ego constantly producing opinion. This framework is based on defining the outer perceptions of the senses.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

How you define things determines how you react to your world. How you define words defines how you react to language.

Subconsciously one reacts not to the language but the conflict of beliefs that the ego clings to in the perceptions of reality. The attachments to ones personal definitions which are not seen as supported on the outside.
The dreams one entertains, hopes and ideals, create all that is reflected (dreamed) on the surface of ego consciousness which is the outer world. The ego consciousness only sees the personal which is protected in the inner shell of individuality but does not recognize the conflict of duality as it is projected in the dreams of manifest reality.
If something shakes that fragile foundation or shell built around individuality the ego tries to press the ignore button on any thought that would or could invade the personal dream.
In reality there is one consciousness and all dreams of all humans are interconnected. The stress the ego incurs in trying to separate the dreams and keep them separated is what causes physical illness and aging and death.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Healthy dialogue: In healthy dialogue information is exchanged, in an unhealthy debate or argument, egocentric nonsense is exchanged.

IN a healthy dialogue God is recognized as speaking to God.
Without the fear of losing ones precious dream of individuality in the experience of Unified consciousness all is experienced as Love or the flow of God absolute.
Love not being the sensory feeling but the unconditional energy that supports everything from the dreams of beginnings and endings, all dreams in between and the true reality of no beginnings and no endings. Life flowing smoothly in the reflection of omniscience, omnipresent and omnipotent.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Psychoanalysis' definition of the ego: (defined by ego)

the ego is the division of the psyche that is concious.

EGO MOST IMMEDIATELY controls thought and Behavior and is the most in touch with external reality--what we perceive with the senses.

Yes, those senses which animals also have. Some animals of lower intellect have senses of sight, taste, hearing and smell far superior to the human animal.
What sets the human (Son of Man) apart from the animal is the subtle sense of celestial perception, or exalted consciousness or what is sometimes called a sixth sense or intuition which is ignored when the ego (animal instinct or outward driven senses) drive the senses toward the external reality which is idealized in the personal beliefs and dreams.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

This means that, if left unchecked, the ego can cause you to lose your cool, to say and do things that are not constructive, or based on reason, (like fighting just to be right even if your aware that your wrong!). In most arguments it's the ego that needs attention, not the subject matter.

In most cases if the ego is given attention it is the subject matter. The subject matter is the reflection of ego. The absolute God is divided thru the lens of personality and belief into a fragment of its original reflection. All subject matter reflected from the ego is a distortion of the True unconditional stream of God consciousness.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Dictionary.com's Definition:

* 1. The self, especially as distinct from the world and other selves.
* 2. In psychoanalysis, the division of the psyche that is conscious, most immediately controls thought and behavior, and is most in touch with external reality.
* 3. An exaggerated sense of self-importance; conceit.
* 4. Appropriate pride in oneself; self-esteem.

It is pride in ones self that drives one to protect the individual dream, see it separate from the dream of unity that is in all human hearts and presses the ignore button on life so man can lock the doors, build fences around their hearts, and fear the terrorist attack of dark forces that is the imagination lost in darkness.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

THE GOAL IS:
============
The goal is enlightenment, not egotistical reprise. If people just leave their ego at the door, retain the definition of their goal, and use a little intelligence, they would experience:

* Less anger and arguments
* Aha Moments
* Friendship not competition
* Love
* Growth
* new keywords/concepts to look up in their favorite subjects
* deeper meaning to things they love and definiton of things they don't understand fully
* enlightenment in its purest form
* Less frustration with people, also known as learning "tolerance"
* The rush you feel when someone validates your opinions
* Receptiveness from others which translates into acknowledgment one of the 10 major things every person strives for in their life
* open mindedness, seeing things they would have missed had they kept their rigid views and not allowed new possibly valuable information in
* more friends and people who respect them highly
* money from writing hub pages because they speak more from understanding than ego driven opinionated rantings

The goal is enlightenment, but without being enlightened none of the ideals can be experienced.
If you haven't reached the ice cream shop you aint eating your ice cream.
You can dream about it but the dream will be imagined along with all the other imaginings of being without.

Any list created from the state of consciousness that is not enlightened is from what one imagines enlightenment to be.
A child imagines what it is like to be an adult but imagining does not make it so, nor does the imagination usually extend itself in one pointed focus to retain any single thought of adulthood throughout the extending years of childhood life.
It's a pretty good indicator of how quickly the imagination shifts from one idea and opinion in belief thru the ego and its reflections of reality to idealize enlightenment from moment to moment while it dances around invading or opposing thoughts dictated by emotional attachments and psychosis.




Posted by: Revlgking

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/08/08 07:58 PM

Welcome, Ellis! My ego made me do it.
Who said the ego has no value, eh? laugh
Posted by: sariah

Re: THE EGO: Its nature, function and...value? - 12/09/08 02:06 AM

Imagining is all there is,made in his image, as his image, being the image…

Perhaps if you could relinquish what you think to be true…your imaginings would blossom.

All there is, is image ~ imagining.

What is imagined is determined by belief, what is imagined is never as the mind thinks it to be, but it is always as the heart impulses it to be, unless the heart and mind are in sync, then one is ‘enlightened’, and consciously creates, through imagining.

Trying to slay the ego/dragon cannot be done through judging it, but through understanding the vehicle that it is. If the dragon is understood, then it can be tamed, and one becomes a dragon rider.