Dark matter comes out of the cold - Science a GoGo's Discussion Forums

Astronomers have for the first time put some real numbers on the physical characteristics of dark matter.

This strange material that dominates the Universe but which is invisible to current telescope technology is one of the great enigmas of modern science.

That it exists is one of the few things on which researchers have been certain.

But now an Institute of Astronomy, Cambridge, team has at last been able to place limits on how it is packed in space and measure its "temperature".

"It's the first clue of what this stuff might be," said Professor Gerry Gilmore. "For the first time ever, we're actually dealing with its physics."

For more:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4679220.stm

An excellent and interesting find Daniel.

In addition, previously it was always thought that the Andromeda Galaxy was bigger than our Milky Way, and moving towards us, ready to 'eat' us up in 10 million years time. Looks like the boots on the other foot.

--------------------
Relish Today Ketchup Tomorrow
Optimism lives for the Living.
--------Mike Kremer-------

Yes a very interesting find. At least I hope it brings something new to chew on. Interesting the mention of the 7,000 different measurments, as of old it yields results.

Matter and �dark matter.�
Fact and Speculation.
=========.
1.
Fact.
The detected material mass of the matter in the Universe is so small
(the average density of all substance in the Universe is approximately
p=10^-30 g/sm^3) that it cannot �close� the Universe and therefore
our Universe as whole is �open�, endless.
But what to do with the infinite Universe the physicists don't know.
The concept of infinite/ eternal means nothing
to a scientists. They do not understand how they could
draw any real, concrete conclusions from this characteristic.
A notions of �more, less, equally, similar� could not
be conformed to a word infinity or eternity.
The Infinity/Eternity is something, that has no borders,
has no discontinuity; it could not be compared to anything.
Considering so, scientists came to conclusion that the
infinity/eternity defies to a physical and mathematical definition
and cannot be considered in real processes.
Therefore they have proclaimed the strict requirement
(on a level of censor of the law):
� If we want that the theory would be correct,
the infinity/eternity should be eliminated �.
Thus they direct all their mathematical abilities,
all intellectual energy to the elimination of infinity.
Therefore they invented an abstract �dark matter and dark energy�.
They say: � 90% or more of the matter in the Universe is unseen.�
And nobody knows what it is.
2.
Speculation.
Unknown �dark matter � it is matter which makes up the difference
between observed mass of a galaxies and calculated mass��
which�.will ��close � �.the Universe, as ��.
as��the astrophysicists want.
========================== . .
P.S.
#
God has to be a real fool to think
that the >99% Hidden Universe
has no control of his <1% Visible Universe. And if he
knew this then he would not be a god but a physicist.

And if he was a smart physicist he would be laughing
at just how much less than 1% a universe really needs
to appear really real.
/ O'no. /
#.
The Dark Matter is another official dogma of our astronomy.
/ V. H. Vergon. /
#
Dark energy, this mysterious stuff in the vacuum of space
which makes the universe want to accelerate, is the basis
for standard cosmology today because it explains much
of what we see.
/ Research by Dr David Wiltshire, from
New Zealand's University of Canterbury /.
#
Dark Energy may be Vacuum
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-01/uoc-dem011607.php
==============..

Four explanations of dark matter by AWT

AS AN INTERESTED LAYMAN I ASK: DO ALL PHYSICISTS KNOW WHAT THEY IMPLY THAT THEY KNOW?
============================================

Originally Posted By: socratus

Matter and �dark matter.�
Fact and Speculation.
=========.
1.Fact.

The detected material mass of the matter in the Universe is so small (the average density of all substance in the Universe is approximately
p=10^-30 g/sm^3) that it cannot �close� the Universe and, therefore, our Universe as whole is �open�, endless.
===================

LGK: Physicists, IMO, the above sounds like you are talking about G�D.

Also, the following, to me, is amazing and wonderful stuff. It sounds like what I have in mind when I think of GOD/G�D.

Or, if you prefer, Nature.

Socratus, I presume that you are a physicist! Are you?

You say:

Socratus: But what to do with the infinite Universe, the physicists don't know.

The concept of infinite/ eternal means nothing
to a scientists. They do not understand how they could draw any real, concrete conclusions from this characteristic.

LGK: Okay then, I am sure that most philosophers, theologians and artists are more than willing to dialogue with scientists about this. Feel free to get in touch.

Personally speaking, I am not out to prove anyone wrong. I simply want dialogue, not a debate--to me, it is a zero sum game, anyway.

Socratus, I have no idea what the following means. Your say:

Socratus: A notions of �more, less, equally, similar� could not be conformed to a word infinity or eternity.

However, I find this interesting:

Socratus: The Infinity/Eternity is something, that has no borders, has no discontinuity; it could not be compared to anything. [To me, LGK, this sound like what I have in mind when I say G�D]

Considering so, scientists came to conclusion that the infinity/eternity defies to a physical and mathematical definition and cannot be considered in real processes.Therefore, they have proclaimed the strict requirement
(on a level of censor of the law):
� If we want that the theory would be correct,
the infinity/eternity should be eliminated �.
Thus they direct all their mathematical abilities,all intellectual energy to the elimination of infinity.

Therefore they invented an abstract �dark matter and dark energy�.

They say: � 90% or more of the matter in the Universe is unseen.�And nobody knows what it is.

2.Speculation. Unknown �dark matter � it is matter which makes up the difference
between observed mass of a galaxies and calculated mass��
which�.will ��close � �.the Universe, as ��.
as��the astrophysicists want.
========================== . .
P.S.
# God has to be a real fool to think
that the >99% Hidden Universe
has no control of his <1% Visible Universe. And if he knew this then he would not be a god but a physicist.

And if he was a smart physicist he would be laughing at just how much less than 1% a universe really needs to appear really real.
/ O'no. /
#. The Dark Matter is another official dogma of our astronomy.
/ V. H. Vergon. /

#Dark energy, this mysterious stuff in the vacuum of space which makes the universe want to accelerate, is the basis for standard cosmology today because it explains much
of what we see.

/ Research by Dr David Wiltshire, from
New Zealand's University of Canterbury /.
#Dark Energy may be Vacuum

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-01/uoc-dem011607.php.

BTW, just today I watched a documentary about what is happening at Sudbury, north Ontario. Very interesting to us laymen.

http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/

I am happy to note that artists are involved in getting this project across to the public--the people who pay for such projects.

IMHO, we need to involve all interested, including humble

theologians, like me.

So-- Please--- to clear up a squabble here at home. ....

We have just been to see Star Trek (bear with me here all you scientists) and I asked if red matter was true! Silly me.. but it led to a schism of the group into those who believe dark matter is 'out there' and those ( well one really!) who doesn't. I have been reading these posts and am amazed that something a lay person like me takes for granted may not be actually real. Is it?

Ellis, I presume your question is aimed at one of our scientists (physicists), eh?

While looking at the documentary I mentioned above--coming out of the Sudbury, Ontario, a drab mining area 800 km's north of me--and reading other information about the nature of the universe and it atomic particles this thought occurred to me:

Medieval theologian's argued about how many angels could dance on the head of pin. Now, the theologians have been replaces by scientists, and the angels have been replaced by atomic particles. Same problem; just the names are new, eh?

Hi, Ellis. Haven't seen Star Trek (but looking forward to it), so I don't know about the red matter, except that it's fictional.

You'll probably see forum posts both from those who believe in dark matter, and those who don't. I use the word 'believe', because unless you happen to be a red hot superduper astrophysicist spending a lot of time studying the latest data, then belief is what it amounts to.

I think the rest of us should content ourselves with an agnostic stance until the experts come up with more observational/experimental data. They're working on it, so there's no point in us folks getting into frenzied debates. Seems to me that dark matter has a similar status to that of the black hole a decade or two ago.

Two great and very helpful replies. Thank you both! I like the 'angels on a pin' analogy a lot, and the 'black hole' certainly was just fiction a few years ago. That's why I like this Forum--- there's always a sensible answer and explanation for non-scientists from our better informed friends!

......"Some have maintained that the local movement of an angel is instantaneous. They said that when an angel is moved from place to place, during the whole of the preceding time he is in the term "wherefrom"; but in the last instant of such time he is in the term "whereto." Nor is there any need for a medium between the terms, just as there is no medium between time and the limit of time. But there is a mid-time between two "nows" of time: hence they say that a last "now" cannot be assigned in which it was in the term "wherefrom," just as in illumination, and in the substantial generation of fire, there is no last instant to be assigned in which the air was dark, or in which the matter was under the privation of the form of fire: but a last time can be assigned, so that in the last instant of such time there is light in the air, or the form of fire in the matter. And so illumination and substantial generation are called instantaneous movements."....[St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologiae, Part I, Question 53]

It's apparent description of quantum mechanics behavior....