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Gazing at the graphic in

http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20060626084521data_trunc_sys.shtml

I can't help but wonder how the primates got that big in the first place.

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Did these early primates drive gas guzzlers and burn fossil fuels? Must have, if there was global warming at that time, because as all us true believers know, those are the only possible causes for global warming.

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Quote:
Originally posted by Hillbilly:
Did these early primates drive gas guzzlers and burn fossil fuels? Must have, if there was global warming at that time, because as all us true believers know, those are the only possible causes for global warming.
It amazes me that you assume climatologists and other atmospheric scientists ignore natural changes in climate when hypothesizing and modeling our current warming trend.


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it depends on where they get their money as to whether or not they ignore it. if they see their money coming from people scared that the big business are destroying the world, then they will hype it up. If they see the money coming from oil companies, they will see that cars and factories have nothing to do with global warming. the reality is somewhere in between. unfortunately, that view does not pay well.


the more man learns, the more he realises, he really does not know anything.
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Why are you amazed ... "Hillbilly" ... another case of self-proclaimed willfull and wanton ignorance.


DA Morgan
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I'm old enough to remember the 70's, back then we were being told that the great danger was global cooling. You couldn't pick up a serious or popular science magazine without an article proclaiming the coming ice age, often with a scary picture showing a glacier covering New York. And it was all a certain scientific fact and anyone who questioned it, was an idiot and probably a child molester, as well. Now the same magazines are beating the drums for global warming.
Now it's global warming, wait another thirty years and it will be back to global cooling. It's like in 1984, "The Ooceanians are our enemies, they have always been our enemies! The Eurasians are are our friends, they have always been our friends!".

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And the more things change the more they remain the same. Which is it, global warming or global cooling? If the added carbon dioxide doesn't kill off the plankton in the ocean the world will probably right itself with merely a hiccup in either direction. If not, you have your choice of bikinis or furs.

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The solar constant is slightly increased for there being "the most intense sunspot activity in 1000 years,"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3869753.stm
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2006/images/solarminimum/ssn_yearly_strip.jpg
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2006/06mar_solarminimum.htm
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/02/0203_050205_sunspots.html

Probes at Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn also detect borderline local temp increases - and there aren't any cars out there. Warming is from solar activity that eased off around 2004. We are now in a very deep absence of sunspots. About 3 years down the line there will be hysterical screams of "Global Cooling." If everybody paints their left armpit orange to stop Global Warming, the temps will go down. Lavender also works.


Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz3.pdf
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thanks for the links al. that explain a few things i was a bit in the dark about. i knew of the link between them, but did not understand why we are getting hotter during a minimum part of the cycle.


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Quote:
Originally posted by dehammer:
it depends on where they get their money as to whether or not they ignore it. if they see their money coming from people scared that the big business are destroying the world, then they will hype it up. If they see the money coming from oil companies, they will see that cars and factories have nothing to do with global warming. the reality is somewhere in between. unfortunately, that view does not pay well.
Please, dehammer. Show me the researchers who ignore historic warming and cooling trends.


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just look at any one that claims that the only cause is polution and big buisness. ask da. he gave several links to studies that showed that all the global warming was done by polution. i remember one that talk about how iceland's ice sheet was disappearing very quickly because of all the ice melting on the outer sides, and the center getting thicker and the glacers moving faster. it stated in its opening statement that this was caused by polution and the study was done to prove it. I did not save the link since it was da's. if you look though da's post in global warming threads, youll find links to sites that claim its all been done by polution.


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Quote:
Originally posted by dehammer:
just look at any one that claims that the only cause is polution and big buisness. ask da. he gave several links to studies that showed that all the global warming was done by polution.
I didn't see it, and I don't have the time to look at every post DA made on the topic.

I'm talking about assorted atmospheric scientists who make such claims. I don't care who stands on a street corner on a soap box making claims.

I am not aware of any scientist who works in an applicable field who ignores natural climate variations when studying current warming trends.


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sorry, i dont have the links. maybe da can provide them again. Every time i came up with a study that suggested that polution was not fully the cause he came down real hard on that. he provided many links then. maybe he can do it again.


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dehammer wrote:
"just look at any one that claims that the only cause is polution and big buisness."

Provide a reference. This is a complete fabrication.

"ask da. he gave several links to studies that showed that all the global warming was done by polution."

Provide a reference. This is a complete fabrication.

Don't they teach people in Texas that lying is a sin?


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Obviously what was left out of your train was exactly what lies are. All anyone has to do is look up any of the threads about global warming that you started to find out that you were claiming it was all being done by cars and such. Do you really believe you have any credablity left?


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What you wrote is a complete fabrication. If you disagree provide a reference. Otherwise YOYO!


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read your own post. yoyo.


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Quote:
Originally posted by soilguy:
Please, dehammer. Show me the researchers who ignore historic warming and cooling trends. [/QUOTE]


here you go. took a while to find this.

Paul Epstein, associate director of the Center for Health and the Global Environment at Harvard Medical School, in an email interview:

Quote:
"The most coherent explanation is that climate is changing because of burning of fossil fuels and felling forests. The health, environmental, and economic costs of inaction are rapidly becoming unmanageable. Stabilizing the climate will require a clean energy transition that will also benefit public health, improve energy security, and can become the engine of economic growth for this 21st century.

"We're seeing changes in asthma, heat wave deaths, and the spread of infectious diseases that are indicative of enormous changes affecting the environment. Climate and disease are stalking humans, wildlife, agriculture, forests, and marine habitat; which are our life support systems."
i see nothing in there about natural warming trends or cooling trends, only about polution causing global warming and diseases.

http://www.livescience.com/environment/060713_global_warming.html

heres another guy from the same place.

Kurt M. Cuffey, professor of geography at the University of California in Berkeley, in an editorial for The San Francisco Chronicle in 2005.

Quote:
"When we look at the complex environmental systems of our planet, from climate to the polar ice sheets, there will always be lingering uncertainties, and some surprises probably await us. But in the thorough and convincing rebuttal of the last contrary arguments, we have just witnessed a historically important validation of the scientific evidence for human causation of climate warming. And Katrina and the waning polar ice caps remind us how important this is.

"It is time for remaining skeptics to look at the tear-streaked faces of refugees from New Orleans, as well as the startling map of ice shrinkage around the North Pole, and begin to plan for the future."
again they claim only man has cause the global warming.


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Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
"ask da. he gave several links to studies that showed that all the global warming was done by polution."

Provide a reference. This is a complete fabrication.

Don't they teach people in Texas that lying is a sin?
how about this one.
Quote:
DA Morgan (from Unexpected Earth Temperature Record Set-plus)
dehammer wrote:
"but have steadfastly said that man is not the primary cause, but only an accelerator, if that."

Actually I have read what you've written: And I've disagreed precisely because you are incorrect.

We ARE THE PRIMARY cause!

And if you don't believe that you need to pay attention to the publications in scientific journals where what is written is not influenced by domestic politics."
this is one. albet this one you did claim only that we were the primary. now you claim you did not.


there there was this one:
Quote:
DA Morgan (from Stark Warning Over Climate Change ) posted 04-14-2006 06:55
The world is likely to suffer a temperature rise of more than 3C, says the UK government's chief scientist.

That would cause drought and famine and threaten millions of lives, said Professor David King in a report based on computer predictions.

Tony Blair wants a global consensus on stabilising greenhouse gas emissions, blamed for climate change. The government shares the EU's 2C limit.

The US refuses to cut emissions and those of India and China are rising.

What a surprise.

For more:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4888946.stm

this one was purely claiming it was polution that was the problem.


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Dehammer you never fail to amaze me. I asked you to:
"Show me the researchers who ignore historic warming and cooling trends."

And you posted:
"The most coherent explanation is that climate is changing because of burning of fossil fuels and felling forests."

Following which you wrote:
"again they claim only man has cause the global warming."

Nothing you posted supports your contention. Nothing!


DA Morgan
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