Science a GoGo's Home Page Forums General Discussion General Science Discussion Forum Big Bang and Black Hole singularities

I have thought about a relationship between the Big Bang Singularity and a Black Hole singularity. Then I read that there are many others with the same thought.With the more recent theories of multiple Universes Did they have a big Bang sigularity also, then where did those singularities come from. I feel that the Big Bang singularity was made up of many Black hole singularities. I am an EE and a novice in Physics so please bear with me.

Hi Paulv. Welcome to SAGG.

If there was a singularity at the Big Bang, and if there are singularities within black holes, I feel sure that there must be a connection between the two. However, I have grave doubts about the existence of singularities, as we normally understand them, so the whole question could be academic.

Your first challenge is to define what you mean by singularity it means many things to many people

Are your talking about a

=> Gravitational singularity
=> Spacetime singularity
=> Quantum information singularity
=> Mathematical singularity


Depending on your definition I am sure I will have a different view.

What type of singulatity would you expect to find at the centre of a black hole; assuming you expected to find one?

A blackhole is simply a spacetime singularity for me as a QM zealot.

For me you squeeze enough matter into a confined space you exceed the carry capacity of spacetime fabric. I really don't view a blackhole as much more than that.

My view is the Quantum information will preserve so it's not a quantum singularity. There is a finite limit to gravity because of carrying capacity so its not a gravitational singularity it heads towards a singularity and is constrained by carrying capacity. If I am right about the above then it is definitely not a mathematical singularity you should be able to calculated in and out of it with the right maths.

It seems that Wikipedia disagrees with your distinction between gravitational and spacetime singularities.

In your definitions, nothing seems necessarily to go to infinity. I thought that was an essential factor in the definition of a singularity, which is the main reason why I have difficulty with them.

Orac, Looking again at your list of singularity types, would the following be a reasonable brief summary?

Gravitational singularity: one in which the curvature of spacetime becomes infinite.

Spacetime singularity: one in which the fabric of spacetime is “ruptured” by being overloaded, possibly by compressed matter/energy.

Quantum information singularity: one in which quantum information is somehow lost, at least from our dimensions.

Mathematical singularity: one in which mathematical calculation breaks down, possibly because of the introduction of infinity.

Hardly surprising that is the standard GR/SR view as I said QM view it heads towards infinity that but is trucated by QM laws.




In the QM world there is no such thing as infinity ... QM information can not be created nor destroyed so you can't have infinite anything.

In QM things can tend towards infinity but they will be truncated by some bounding condition.

If you want some real horrid mathematics to work thru Lubus has a post on QM bounding of Black holes (http://motls.blogspot.com/2008/07/black-holes-quantum-mechanics-at.html)



Basically in the blackhole gravity will look like it is going towards infinity but QM says eventually you exceed the capacity of space to hold that much matter and it collapses.

If we stay with slightly lower pressures like inside the Earths core QM made predictions that the core material would act very different to existing theories and these seem to be proving correct (http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-12-kind-metal-deep-earth.html)

The more we understand QM the more predictions it is making that seem to solve the problems GR/SR throw up as singularities.

I could get to like QM.



Take me through the logic of that. Why would the ability to create or destroy Q information let in infinity?

Cycles Bill you know

create information --> do something --> destroy information

rinse and repeat and you have infinite universe.

If you can't create or destroy but only change you can't have an infinite universe.

From a QM perspective the universe was born with a finite information and you can change and alter it but not create nor destroy.

In theory, what stops you from making an infinite number of changes in a finite universe.

I thought it would have been obvious for a Black hole singularity but maybe not obvious for a Big Bang singularity.

What do we know of that is Infinite. It appears that even QM is is reaching a point where infinity doesn't exist, to the point that they're beginning to accept that the Universe is not infinite.

What do we know of that is Infinite. It appears that even QM is is reaching a point where infinity doesn't exist, to the point that they're beginning to accept that the Universe is not infinite.

I don't believe in infinity.

I'm not a student of QM just curious, If your a Qm Superstar (with all due respect) then your way over my head. Besides most of QM is theoretical anyway.

Since QM theory has been unfailingly and increasingly applied to technology for many decades, it's hard to see what 'most' might refer to.

(btw Paulv, you can use the Edit option rather than multi-post)

So where/when did everything start?