Welcome to
Science a GoGo's
Discussion Forums
Please keep your postings on-topic or they will be moved to a galaxy far, far away.
Your use of this forum indicates your agreement to our terms of use.
So that we remain spam-free, please note that all posts by new users are moderated.


The Forums
General Science Talk        Not-Quite-Science        Climate Change Discussion        Physics Forum        Science Fiction

Who's Online Now
0 members (), 181 guests, and 2 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Posts
Top Posters(30 Days)
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#37788 03/12/11 09:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
P
paul Offline OP
Megastar
OP Offline
Megastar
P
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
fridays tsunami in japan was terrible and is still terrible as aftershocks continue to occur apx every hour.
over 10,000 people are missing.

the nuclear power plant in fukushima is overheated and is releasing radiation , yet the wave action has never stopped.

the reactor lost its cooling capabilities due to pump failure of some sorts.

both the main and the backup pumps failed.

yet the wave action has never stopped.

if your going to build a nuclear reactor on the beach why not allow the wave action to keep the core cool.

for that matter however if the land were to heave upwards then even wave action would not save the core because the waves would be further down , but why not put the reactors on the water...

where they can be sacrificial lambs in the event of such a dissaster.

pull a plug and sink them , we have had nuclear powered ships for decades now , and no real problems.

and if there ever was a real problem Im sure that somebody would have ordered them sunk.

or better than that just drop the core into the ocean if it starts to get overheated and you cant figure out how to keep it cool.

they do have emergency generators in place last I heard and I suppose they are used to power the pumps but if another wave comes in big enough to put them out of opperation then
the countdown begins again.

Im not being insensitive to the tragedy , I really hope that those that have survived will find food and shelter
and medical attention soon unlike the way the victims of katrina were treated and the time it took for any action to take place given that there was not a potential nuclear meltdown in the immediate vicinity.








3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
.
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,100
K
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
K
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,100
Originally Posted By: paul
if your going to build a nuclear reactor on the beach why not allow the wave action to keep the core cool.


"In the particularly hard-hit reactor 1 of the Fukushima nuclear plant complex, technicians had begun to flood the system with sea water and boron to head off a meltdown."

Quote:

or better than that just drop the core into the ocean if it starts to get overheated and you cant figure out how to

I think the risk of a leak in the ocean is more serious than on land. Suddenly a huge fishing area would become permanently unusable.

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,696
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,696
Originally Posted By: paul
fridays tsunami in japan was terrible and is still terrible as aftershocks continue to occur apx every hour.
over 10,000 people are missing.

the nuclear power plant in fukushima is overheated and is releasing radiation , yet the wave action has never stopped.

the reactor lost its cooling capabilities due to pump failure of some sorts.

both the main and the backup pumps failed.

..................................>
..................>

Im not being insensitive to the tragedy , I really hope that those that have survived will find food and shelter
and medical attention soon unlike the way the victims of katrina were treated and the time it took for any action to take place given that there was not a potential nuclear meltdown in the immediate vicinity.




Originally Posted By: Mike Kremer


A terrible tragedy for the Japanese people.
Made all the more poingnant with the fact that knowing they lived in an earthquake zone, they did all they could to make sure that their skyscrapers could absorb the low frequency earth movements of an earthquake.

With hindsight one might question the wisdom of sighting any Nuclear Power Plants near a coast, in a ring of fire (subduction)zone.
The pressure of Tsunami seawater can cause the rotors and body, of the water pumps to sieze, and stop working.
Which is what I believe happened in nuclear plant No1, and now Plant No3, also has a cooling problem as well.
Prehaps water cooled reactors should have a backup system wherebye coolant water is gravity fed, in an emergency?

For the sake of their future they should move all their Nuclear Plants far inland to avoid a future tragedy, even forget nuclear, and rely upon imported oil and coal instead?

You mention Radiation Health, Paul.
I am sure they will be handing out doses of iodine tablets to anyone that might be vunerable.

My thought are that it could take at least 20+ years for the country to recover. Also just where would all the millions of tons of bricks, mud, wood and steel, glass and cars be dumped?
More hundreds of cars, plus the huge steel blue shipping containers that were at the dockside ready for export,and now have to be recovered from the sea?



.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.


Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
P
paul Offline OP
Megastar
OP Offline
Megastar
P
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
Quote:
Suddenly a huge fishing area would become permanently unusable.


bikini atoll fishermans paradise

the land is mostly uninhabitable but the waters around bikini are full of fish.

in fact almost all ground areas where nuclear testing was performed is uninhabitable.

I still think that dropping a hot core into the ocean would provide for an instant cure.




3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
P
paul Offline OP
Megastar
OP Offline
Megastar
P
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
Quote:
Prehaps water cooled reactors should have a backup system wherebye coolant water is gravity fed, in an emergency?


I think that too.

I wonder why they dont do that , theres many mountains in japan and probably many streams that could be used to channel water from a elevation to the core.

((( without needing any power source )))

I suppose in the future they will use small reactors that use a emergency vacume system that will turn the cooling water into solid ice in a matter of seconds.





3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,100
K
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
K
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,100
Originally Posted By: paul


Wikipedia: "Food including fish is contaminated so tour boats must bring all their own supplies."

Full of fish because commercial fishermen can't fish there!!

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
P
paul Offline OP
Megastar
OP Offline
Megastar
P
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
Quote:
Suddenly a huge fishing area would become permanently unusable.


it looks like the bikini atoll fishing area is being used for fishing.

so its useable.

and isnt the ocean connected where migrating fish can migrate or is there stop signs for the fish trying to leave the atoll? lol

I know what your saying but would you rather have a 20 mile diameter area close to a large city that suddenly becomes uninhabitable where you cannot grow food or livestock or use it for any other purpose or a area in the ocean that becomes a area where you cant fish.

the earths surface is 2/3 water so which is really better.

contaminated fish and birds and animals also migrate and die in other places and are eaten by uncontaminated birds and fish and animals.

so where can you justify that land is the safest place to put a nuclear power station that cannot be cooled down as quickly as one that is floating on or submerged under water.

also a nuclear power plants overheating core could not begin to heat the ocean.


Last edited by paul; 03/14/11 01:26 AM.

3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,100
K
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
K
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,100
Originally Posted By: paul

and isnt the ocean connected where migrating fish can migrate or is there stop signs for the fish trying to leave the atoll? lol

They become diluted among all the other fish. You can probably eat one or two now and then without a problem.

Quote:

I know what your saying but would you rather have a 20 mile diameter area close to a large city that suddenly becomes uninhabitable where you cannot grow food or livestock or use it for any other purpose or a area in the ocean that becomes a area where you cant fish.

Depends how big the area in the sea is. It would probably be bigger than 20 miles, partly because of that migrating fish problem.

Quote:

the earths surface is 2/3 water so which is really better.

Good point. But there's a shortage of fish throughout that water. So it's quite valuable, even more so by being close to land.

Quote:
also a nuclear power plants overheating core could not begin to heat the ocean.

I don't know what that has to do with anything. We're talking about leaking radioactive material. Which would also be a lot more than what's released from a few dozen atomic bombs.

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
P
paul Offline OP
Megastar
OP Offline
Megastar
P
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
Quote:
I don't know what that has to do with anything. We're talking about leaking radioactive material.


the reason there would be leaking radioactive material would be due to a inability to cool the radioactive material.

which causes the water around the radioactive material to boil away and burn up the radioactive material.

if the radioactive material is quickly ejected into the ocean
it could most likely be cooled down by the oceans water and could later be reclaimed by rov.

could you imagine the difficulty you would have trying to bring any part of the ocean to 100 celsius?

it would possibly take every ounce of oil that has ever been burned and that will ever be burned to raise the oceans temperature a few degrees.

you bring two of these materials close to each other and they heat up.

if you eject one that is overheating into the cool ocean then everything suddenly cools down.

at least that is what I understand about it anyway.

Last edited by paul; 03/14/11 05:57 PM.

3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Link Copied to Clipboard
Newest Members
debbieevans, bkhj, jackk, Johnmattison, RacerGT
865 Registered Users
Sponsor

Science a GoGo's Home Page | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Contact UsokÂþ»­¾W
Features | News | Books | Physics | Space | Climate Change | Health | Technology | Natural World

Copyright © 1998 - 2016 Science a GoGo and its licensors. All rights reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5