Science a GoGo's Home Page Forums General Discussion General Science Discussion Forum Evolution is Dead. We are Controlling our Own Evolvement

Like it or not,our thoughts and beliefs upon Human Evolution depend very much upon which part of the world you come from. What religion you adhere to, or what tribe you have sprung from come.
Whether you are a God fearing Biblical scholar, or a follower of Darwin, an Atheist, a Ufologist, a member of the Dagon tribe, or even a believer in intelligent design, it makes no difference any more.

For it is my considered opinion that we are now controlling our own human evolvement.
That we are actively compressing, and speeding up human evolvement of thousands, even millions of years, into the last five years, and the future.

And its going to accelerate, we are about to overtake and outdo Nature, and God.
For we are about to produce the most superb species of Mankind ever to walk upon this earth.

Why do I believe this? Well I have just read breaking Medical News. That "US scientist
have just produced viable Male Sperm, from male Stem Cells"
This breakthru is even now, being actively persued in Japan, UK, Germany and Italy.
Admittedly they have only used Rats, but it will very soon be applied to humans.

I believe the old taboos regarding human Germ-line engineering will soon go by the board.
Opinions are shifting, fast. For it is men that are usually the cause of a couples infertility (tho they wont admit it). Now hundreds of thousands of infertile men will be able to make their own biological Sperm. And be able to produce their OWN biological children !
And who is going to deny them ? For it is something that the infertile man has never before been able to achieve.

Over 20 European countrys have signed a convention agreeing to ban human embryo engineering, as has the US. I do not now believe that even this agreement will last too long....for male and parential pressure will become too great, enthusiasm will ride along as an unstoppable tide, for both scientist and parents.

Even further, genetic replacement of diseased genes is almost upon us. There is no banning convention in existence for that.
Germ-line engineering is almost upon us.....being able to cure, abolish forever, the more common diseases, such as Obesity, Cystic-Fibrosis, Sexual diseases, Diabetes, even Cancer, is morally and finacially better off for mankind to genetically abolish, than all the moneys spent upon trying to treat our thousands of geneticaly diseased children, and all their future off-spring.
Once the ball starts rolling, everyone will want to get in on the act.
Health free children for a health free future. Who would deny that?.
As I said we are about to control our own evolution, faster and better than Darwin or God.

PS
a couple URL that prompted my thoughts
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/07/11/nstem11.xml

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2006/7/prweb408895.htm

MK wrote:
"For it is my considered opinion that we are now controlling our own human evolvement."

With the exception of the occassional asteroid or tsunami I agree.

The blind leading the blind and ignoring the sighted among them. Not a great formula.

The good thing about evolution - the thing that really gives it power - is the creation of diversity. Diversity is non-optimality. It's the spread about the optimal.

What's so great about non-optimality? Environments are not static. What is optimal in one environment, is not necessarily so in others.

Consider two sets of systems:

1) designed, constructed, tested and deployed to be optimal in a specific environment.

2) An evolved, i.e. ad hoc collection that is vastly suboptimal, but is resilient to considerable changes in the environment.

Now you could simply say that we can plan in resilience. That's a lot easier said than done. The problem is that we don't know what ways the environment is likely to change. Will the temperature rise 30 degrees or lower or both in some succession? Will the air become more human? Will parasites become more voracious? Will an asteroid pummell us?

Of course evolution is not a perfect solution either. Most of the species that ever existed have perished. There is no guarantee of survival.

- is the creation of diversity ? Hardly true, since as you say later, 'most species that ever existed have perished'
For 'diversity' I would be inclined to put specialisation.

Be optimistic, lets look upon the bright side.
Without exception, all extinctions have occured by natural events.
Thus leaving more room for the survivors to expand and specialise

Specialization allows you to thrive in a specific environment. But mathematically it forces into local optima. Diversity gives you 1) resilience to change and 2) a way out of local optima.

Falliable wrote:
"The good thing about evolution - the thing that really gives it power - is the creation of diversity."

And thus the bad thing about humans is that they are destroying that diversity at a rate impossible for evolution can compete.

MK wrote:
"Be optimistic, lets look upon the bright side.
Without exception, all extinctions have occured by natural events. Thus leaving more room for the survivors to expand and specialise"

Are you serious Mike? No new species is going to evolve on this planet, larger than a bacteria unless it lives in the deepest ocean depths, until we are extinct.

Exactly my point Dan. Read my posts more carefully
"No more evolution. Evolution is Dead"
My headlines) Thus by definition only specialisation is left
Not once did I even hint that any new species is going to evolve

Animals are becoming more specialised, eg.
Learning to use tools, learning to live in the difficult areas we have allowed them to. As we encroach upon their natural territorys.
I repeat:-
Be optimistic, lets look upon the bright side.
Without exception, all extinctions have occured by natural events.
Thus leaving more room for the survivors to expand and specialise

"Without exception, all extinctions have occured by natural events."

In the sense that man is part of nature and our actions are therefore natural, this is true. The passenger pidgeon, the Dodo? All natural, in a manner of speaking.

When I read things like "the end of evolution," I can't help thinking of Fukuyama's "The End of History."

Evolution survived the dinosaurs and my best guess is it will survive us as well.

Yes I am afraid we are an incredibly greedy species. To the detriment of all other life and Nature.
We will end up with no room for expansion, and like the Crocodile, with no natural predators, other than ourselves. Then the 'fun' will really start.

Sorry about the misread MK.

Falliable wrote:
"Without exception, all extinctions have occured by natural events."

That's spin doctoring. Clearly in the language we make a distinction between human induced and "natural" in the same way that we use "organic" with respect to foods to make a distinction that technically doesn't exist.

Communication requires using the common vernacular.

that is assuming we stay on earth. if we dont, we will have lots of room to expand, and things will get even more fun as the human race begins to expand down multiple, unconnected lines of evolution.

"That's spin doctoring. Clearly in the language we make a distinction between human induced and "natural" in the same way that we use "organic" with respect to foods to make a distinction that technically doesn't exist."

Actually, I didn't write that. MK did. I just quoted it and responded that it was only true in the sense that humans are a part of nature.

Ok then it is spin doctoring MK. We have as a species, to some reasonable extent, subverted natural processes on this planet in a way not achieved by any organism since the transformation of the atmosphere to oxidizing by chlorphyll.

We have strongly affected natural selection, no doubt. But the word "control" implies that we're consciously directing it.

We are favoring species that can adapt to the way we alter the environment. We also favor species that please us in some way. (The Botany of Desire is an interesting book, from a well-educated layman's point of view.)

When we're gone or when we stop the mass alteration of environments, future species will evolve from the ones we favored (consciously favored or not).

Soilguy wrote:
"But the word "control" implies that we're consciously directing it."

I think we are.

Look at all of the intentional government and religious policies directed toward increasing population. Everything from restrictions on birth control and abortion to tax breaks.

Do you see any religions promoting Zero Population Growth (ZPG)? How about the elimination of tax breaks for those that use the most public services (schools, health care, etc.)?

Overpopulation is a policy supported by the masses. And if you don't believe me look at the screaming that took place when the PRC (China) tried to change the rules to some extent.

im afraid i have to disagree with you there.

its not a policy that people support. most people believe that we should be controlling population growth, just not THEIR population growth.

most people agree with controls as long as they are not the ones being controlled. After all, THEY are not the problem.

You might want to reread what you wrote dehummer. You agreed with me.

Maybe when we discovered evolution existed we automatically started to control it. First by primitive methods like the perfect race, but eventually and by degrees, by methods that work. It's a heavy responsibilty being God, I still hope that the physics of the world will trip us up. In the history of humankind did we ever need a break through so badly.