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#6994 - 05/24/06 10:05 PM Re: "Eddy" currents in a superconductor
Count Iblis II Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 375
A ''Johnny Boy-type'' argument proving that General Relativity is wrong laugh

Consider an electric charge freely floating in space. Obviously, this charge does not emit any radiation. Suppose that you are in a rocket that is accelerating. According to the equivalence principle, what you see must be the same as what you would see if you were not accelerating and there was a uniform gravitational field.

But in the latter case the charge would accelerate in a uniform gravitational field and should emit radiation. Also, it the rocket is charged then the accelerating rocket should emit radiation while a rocket at rest in a gravitaional field clearly does not emit radiation.


Needless to say, the above arguments are wrong. I just want to point out how easy it is for people with some limited knowledge of physics to come up with arguments apparently disproving well established theories.

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#6995 - 05/25/06 08:26 AM Re: "Eddy" currents in a superconductor
Johnny Boy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 330
Loc: South Africa
Quote:
Originally posted by Count Iblis II:
I think you are the one here who doesn't understand electromagnetism. If you did then you would know what is wrong with your argument.

Have you ever derived the formulas for radiation emitted by accelerated charges? Oviously not! If you just pick up a book like e.g. the book by Jackson then you will see that a circular current does not emit any radiation. If you have a steady current then the fields are constant and that cannot gove rise to radiation. The fact that charges are accelerated is not relevant.
Wow!! You ARE creating physics to suit your prejudices. The circular currents in a magnetron still radiate electromagnetic waves. So your calculation using Jackson must be wrong.
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#6996 - 05/25/06 08:33 AM Re: "Eddy" currents in a superconductor
Johnny Boy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 330
Loc: South Africa
Quote:
Originally posted by Count Iblis II:
A ''Johnny Boy-type'' argument proving that General Relativity is wrong laugh

Consider an electric charge freely floating in space. Obviously, this charge does not emit any radiation. Suppose that you are in a rocket that is accelerating. According to the equivalence principle, what you see must be the same as what you would see if you were not accelerating and there was a uniform gravitational field.

But in the latter case the charge would accelerate in a uniform gravitational field and should emit radiation. Also, it the rocket is charged then the accelerating rocket should emit radiation while a rocket at rest in a gravitaional field clearly does not emit radiation.


Needless to say, the above arguments are wrong. I just want to point out how easy it is for people with some limited knowledge of physics to come up with arguments apparently disproving well established theories.
Dont put arguments in my mouth which I have NOT made. Are you becoming so desperate?

The fact still remains that you have not been able to give me a mechanism by which the charge carriers accelerate when the magnetic field is switched on, except by Farady induction. By the way, Feynman explained this in his book just BEFORE proceeding to "explain" the Meissner effect in the usual BS way. I do not believe that a man of the caliber of Feynman would publish an explanation which he knows is completely wrong, just in order to make the physics "easier". In fact, I have read the same argument in "advanced" books on superconductivity.

Then if it is the Faraday effect that accelerates the "Cooper pairs" one should also accelerate the "Cooper pairs" when applying an electric field between two contacts. This implies that there is a field and THEREFORE THERE IS NO SUPERCONDUCTION TAKING PLACE!!

TRY AND STICK TO THE TOPIC INSTEAD OF FLAUNTING YOUR IGNORANCE!

Electromagnetic radiation cannot occur when an electron is accelerated by gravitation. This fact has another surprising aspect to it which is ignored in quantum electrodynamics. I will postpone this for a later thread.
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#6997 - 05/25/06 11:57 AM Re: "Eddy" currents in a superconductor
Count Iblis II Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 375
Quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Boy:
Quote:
Originally posted by Count Iblis II:
I think you are the one here who doesn't understand electromagnetism. If you did then you would know what is wrong with your argument.

Have you ever derived the formulas for radiation emitted by accelerated charges? Oviously not! If you just pick up a book like e.g. the book by Jackson then you will see that a circular current does not emit any radiation. If you have a steady current then the fields are constant and that cannot gove rise to radiation. The fact that charges are accelerated is not relevant.
Wow!! You ARE creating physics to suit your prejudices. The circular currents in a magnetron still radiate electromagnetic waves. So your calculation using Jackson must be wrong.
Hahahahahaha! circular currents don't have anything to do with radiation. Why not show us some calculations here about circular currents radiating EM-waves? Oh, and don't make erroneous use of Larmor's formula, derive everything from first principles.

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#6998 - 05/25/06 11:59 AM Re: "Eddy" currents in a superconductor
Count Iblis II Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 375
Quote:
Electromagnetic radiation cannot occur when an electron is accelerated by gravitation. This fact has another surprising aspect to it which is ignored in quantum electrodynamics. I will postpone this for a later thread.
Utter nonsense.

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#6999 - 05/25/06 12:09 PM Re: "Eddy" currents in a superconductor
Count Iblis II Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 375
Quote:
The fact still remains that you have not been able to give me a mechanism by which the charge carriers accelerate when the magnetic field is switched on
We did give you the intuitive arguments here. The rigorous approach to this problem is given in the book by Rickayzen. So, I did give you the correct arguments but it is not possible to write it down here.

Your debating tactics are to attack theories on subtle points. This then makes sense to lay persons. To understand in detail why your arguments are wrong requires knowledge of more advanced methods of theoretical physics.

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#7000 - 05/25/06 12:55 PM Re: "Eddy" currents in a superconductor
Count Iblis II Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 375
B.t.w., Johnny Boy, isn't it time you told us about the book you want to sell us? laugh

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#7001 - 05/25/06 01:37 PM Re: "Eddy" currents in a superconductor
Boytjie Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/25/06
Posts: 6
Loc: The Universe
Quote:
Originally posted by Count Iblis II:
Quote:
Originally posted by Count Iblis II:
I think you are the one here who doesn't understand electromagnetism. If you did then you would know what is wrong with your argument.

Wow!! You ARE creating physics to suit your prejudices. The circular currents in a magnetron still radiate electromagnetic waves. So your calculation using Jackson must be wrong.
Hahahahahaha! circular currents don't have anything to do with radiation. Why not show us some calculations here about circular currents radiating EM-waves? Oh, and don't make erroneous use of Larmor's formula, derive everything from first principles.
For some unknown reason my profile as Johnny Boy has been wiped. If it has been done because I broke a rule, I apologise severely. ASn would appreciate it very much if my previous status can be restored (Johnny Boy)

If you just postulate a circular current without taking the required forces into account which force the charge carriers to follow a circular path, you might get your result; but it is at the cost of violating Newton's first law. Similarly the :Cooper pairs" cannot just keep on following circular orbits out of their own volition after the magnetic field has stabilised. If there is no electric field appearing when they try and follow rectilinear paths, then they will do so; however, it is clear that as soon as they try and follow rectilinear paths, the magnetic field they generate will change relative to the applied magnetic field; and this will cause an induced electric field to restore equilibrium.

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#7002 - 05/25/06 01:40 PM Re: "Eddy" currents in a superconductor
Boytjie Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/25/06
Posts: 6
Loc: The Universe
Quote:
Originally posted by Count Iblis II:
Quote:
Electromagnetic radiation cannot occur when an electron is accelerated by gravitation. This fact has another surprising aspect to it which is ignored in quantum electrodynamics. I will postpone this for a later thread.
Utter nonsense.
Electromagnetic radiation can only occurs when charges are accelerated relative to each other. This requires the electron to be accelerated by an electric field. Nonetheless this is a topic for another thread. So lets agree to disagree.

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#7003 - 05/25/06 01:49 PM Re: "Eddy" currents in a superconductor
Boytjie Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/25/06
Posts: 6
Loc: The Universe
Quote:
Originally posted by Count Iblis II:
Quote:
The fact still remains that you have not been able to give me a mechanism by which the charge carriers accelerate when the magnetic field is switched on
We did give you the intuitive arguments here. The rigorous approach to this problem is given in the book by Rickayzen. So, I did give you the correct arguments but it is not possible to write it down here.

Your debating tactics are to attack theories on subtle points. This then makes sense to lay persons. To understand in detail why your arguments are wrong requires knowledge of more advanced methods of theoretical physics.
I believe that a person who does not understand physics hides behind complicated mathematics to make his point. This is what you are doing here. I know the derivation in Rickayzen's book. It does not make any physical sense. No wonder you are incapable of explaining the physics involved. All these derivations lead to an expression where the current density is given by the gradient of the phase of the so-called order parameter (or Bose-Einstein multiparticle function). This generates a conservative field. Now there is a major problem when you generate circular currents with a magnetic field; the resultant currents manifest as a circular field. Thus by equating them to the gradient of the phase you are equating a conservative field to a circular field. This violates the basic rules of the mathematics of fields. Probably only you and a selection of "highly trained theoretical physicists" (the high priesthood?) can understand how the more advanced methods of theoretical physics can override the rules of mathematics!.

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#7004 - 05/25/06 01:55 PM Re: "Eddy" currents in a superconductor
Boytjie Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/25/06
Posts: 6
Loc: The Universe
Quote:
Originally posted by Count Iblis II:
B.t.w., Johnny Boy, isn't it time you told us about the book you want to sell us? laugh
The book is available. So far not a single person who have read the book could find any flaw with the physics in it. Some are willing to state it openly; others hide because they are too scared that they did not find flaws because they are too stupid. It is quite uncanny how people who attcked me openly before reading the book suddenly fall quiet and are afterwards very difficult to get hold off. Thank God there are scientist of the caliber of Prof Jan Boeyens and Prof. Dr. Peer Zalm; who are not afraid to state that they could not find any mistakes in the physics.

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#7005 - 05/25/06 02:22 PM Re: "Eddy" currents in a superconductor
Count Iblis II Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 375
Quote:
I know the derivation in Rickayzen's book.
No you don't, as the rest of your posting proves. In the book Rickayzen points out some fallacies of other methods that ''prove'' the existence of the Meissner effect.

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#7006 - 05/25/06 02:59 PM Re: "Eddy" currents in a superconductor
dr_rocket Offline
Member

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 196
Loc: Palo Alto, CA, USA
The best, i.e., most entertaining, way to settle an arguement like this is with pistols at dawn. That way there would be a clear cut winner.

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#7007 - 05/25/06 05:18 PM Re: "Eddy" currents in a superconductor
Boytjie Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/25/06
Posts: 6
Loc: The Universe
Quote:
Originally posted by Count Iblis II:
Quote:
I know the derivation in Rickayzen's book.
No you don't, as the rest of your posting proves. In the book Rickayzen points out some fallacies of other methods that ''prove'' the existence of the Meissner effect.
It is still wrong. Why are you not able to explain physics without hiding behind "advanced theoretical manipulations" of mathematics. I can assure you that mathematics is the most impartial judge. When it becomes complicated, it is unlikely that it is describing actual physics. If you need to try and bypass mathematics, like for instance using dubious approaches like renormalisation, the chance is nearly one hundred percent that you are explaining physics in terms of virtual reality; i.e. that you are wrong!! Or most likely as Pauli would have said: "you are not even wrong!"

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#7008 - 05/25/06 09:02 PM Re: "Eddy" currents in a superconductor
Count Iblis II Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 375
Quote:
Originally posted by Boytjie:
Quote:
Originally posted by Count Iblis II:
Quote:
I know the derivation in Rickayzen's book.
No you don't, as the rest of your posting proves. In the book Rickayzen points out some fallacies of other methods that ''prove'' the existence of the Meissner effect.
It is still wrong. Why are you not able to explain physics without hiding behind "advanced theoretical manipulations" of mathematics. I can assure you that mathematics is the most impartial judge. When it becomes complicated, it is unlikely that it is describing actual physics. If you need to try and bypass mathematics, like for instance using dubious approaches like renormalisation, the chance is nearly one hundred percent that you are explaining physics in terms of virtual reality; i.e. that you are wrong!! Or most likely as Pauli would have said: "you are not even wrong!"
You already made clear here that you don't even understand simple electrodynamics when you claimed that a steady circular current will emit radiation because ''the charges are accelerating toward the center''. I.e. you naively apply Larmor's formula without understanding that it doesn't hold in this case.

Now you expect that someone could explain to you in a few words how the Meissner effect comes about? I think Prof. Wiles would have more success explaining his proof of Fermat's theorem to his dog.

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#7009 - 05/26/06 01:00 AM Re: "Eddy" currents in a superconductor
Anonymous
Unregistered


Johnny Boy,
I don't know what happened to your profile but I'm looking into it. I don't think you did anything wrong, and we usually give ample warnings before cutting people. Stay tuned!

"Amaranth"
Moderator

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#7010 - 05/26/06 02:47 AM Re: "Eddy" currents in a superconductor
Kate Offline

Senior Member

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 334
Re. the profile not being there... we had some probs with the board but it's OK now. Try logging out and then back in. Is anybody else having problems?

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#7011 - 05/26/06 08:48 AM Re: "Eddy" currents in a superconductor
Boytjie Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/25/06
Posts: 6
Loc: The Universe
Quote:
Originally posted by Count Iblis II:
Quote:
Originally posted by Boytjie:
Quote:
Originally posted by Count Iblis II:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
You already made clear here that you don't even understand simple electrodynamics when you claimed that a steady circular current will emit radiation because ''the charges are accelerating toward the center''. I.e. you naively apply Larmor's formula without understanding that it doesn't hold in this case.

Now you expect that someone could explain to you in a few words how the Meissner effect comes about? I think Prof. Wiles would have more success explaining his proof of Fermat's theorem to his dog. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nice of you; however, whether a circulating current radiates or not has nothing to do with the original question with which this thread has been opened. So I do not want us to proceed arguing at a tangent. Therefore I am returning to the original topic. You have continuously avoided to give a straight answer but rather resorted to insults and subterfuge.

The fact is that when you switch on a magnetic field over a superconductor, currents start to flow exactly as one would expect if they are generated by the induced electric field. You deny that the electric field is responsible for this and stated that:
(i) Feynman deliberately misled his students because the mechanism is so complicated.
(ii) Then you argued that the mechanism is driven by some obscure "advanced mathematics" which you are unable to explain.

Wow what a physics discussion! No wonder physics has been in a quaqmire for more than 70 years. Einstein, Schroedinger, why have you left us with a bunch of scientific midgets?

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#7012 - 05/26/06 08:53 AM Re: "Eddy" currents in a superconductor
Johnny Boy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 330
Loc: South Africa
Thanks I have my profile back. It is nice to see myself in the mirror again!
_________________________
http://www.cathodixx.com

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#7013 - 05/26/06 01:14 PM Re: "Eddy" currents in a superconductor
Johnny Boy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 330
Loc: South Africa
I lost my profile again this morning. Thanks Kate it is back.
_________________________
http://www.cathodixx.com

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